The Paranoid Sailor

Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
OK, confession time. Not sure what has gone wrong with me, but I am becoming an ever more paranoid sailor. I've had this boat for 4 years now. The first year was just getting to know the boat, learning to trust it, learning what it would do. Year before last, I had the boat out on a good sized lake in 30 mph winds. No reef, just going for broke. I felt like I could concur the world. The boat pretty much was go anywhere and do anything with it. Bring it on. Last year, that changed. Got caught in a storm with 50 mph winds. No way to sail in it, tried to motor, but could not do that either. Basically did a semi-controlled ditch into a small cove and waited out the storm. Ever since then, I've just been paranoid about being able to go where I need to go. if the winds are the least bit strong, I only go upwind on the outgoing, so worst case, I can go down wind on the return and get where I need to go. This past week, I took the family out on our summer sailing vacation. The final day I had to motor upwind from our cove to the launch ramp about a mile away. The winds were strong, with white caps over most of the waves. For what ever reason, I did not feel confident to put the sails up. Partly because I would have to sail out into the middle of the lake where the winds were stronger. The clouds and the wind were ominous. I did look out over the lake, and there where a couple of sailboats out there. Even a cat with only about 10 feet of sail up. But just not sure why I didn't feel confident to go out, even though I know I've been sailed in much worse. Even sailing earlier in the week, when the winds piped up, I kept pointed into the wind, so as to prevent much heeling. I'd ask myself what would I do if I had to sail a beam reach. I've always said that a good day sailing is not hitting or breaking anything. But for whatever reason, I becoming more paranoid about that.
 
Nov 13, 2013
723
Catalina 34 Tacoma
It sounds like you were a little to cocky when you first bought your boat. Then you were humbled in the 50kn winds and rightfully so.
Just because someone is out there in 30kn winds, doesn't mean your a wimp. If your not confident in the conditions then it's time to head in or take shelter. You are a little smarter now than 4 years ago.
 

RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,578
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
Hasn't happened to me sailing (yet?) but over the years I've been heavily involved in hang gliding and big whitewater kayaking, among other "action sports". whenever I felt beat down I always found it a great help to enlist the company of other very experienced people to share the day (or the next several). reasons are varied, but trust me... it works ;)
Edit: and this is not to say you need to "learn" anything in particular. but it's a phycological support system that we all may need from time to time.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
It's a lightweight 24 foot boat. Sail within that. Experts/heros can make a boat like that look exciting in 30 kn a breeze, but for most mortals it will be terrifying
 
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Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Jack's right. You also had your family with you, good on you for being more careful. Also, you can use either just the jib or a reefed main for more control in high winds. Actually, sounds like you're doing just fine. Paranoid could simply mean: careful out there. Always a good idea to go upwind first, makes the rest of the day much easier. :)
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
After 4 years you have a different perspective. Not better or worse.
The boat is not designed to cross oceans, ride out 50 knot winds and 20 ft waves. While sailors have lucked out on 24 ft boats experiencing such storm conditions, choosing to venture forth is a choice.
As Jackdaw advises, is good counsel.
 

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
I wouldn't'a sailed in the 30 knot wind. I've been caught a time or two in OMG winds but they've been brief. I don't feel like a wimp at all. Just careful. And I sure as heck wouldn't have taken my family out in what you described. Keep at it. Smart is good.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Different boats have very different sweet spots. I've had several boats in the past that were not even fun to sail unless the wind was above 10 kn but better yet if it was 25 kn. But the boat I have now is rather responsive in the 5 - 10 kn range and I'm reefing both sails at anything over 15 kn and rolling up the head sail completely at 25 kn.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The first year was just getting to know the boat, learning to trust it, learning what it would do. Year before last, I had the boat out on a good sized lake in 30 mph winds.
Last year, that changed. Got caught in a storm with 50 mph winds. No way to sail in it, tried to motor, but could not do that either.
You have had 2 great learning experiences. Time to build on those experiences. Lots of us have more confidence in the motors on our boats than the sails, most of that confidence is misplaced.

With these experiences behind you, it is time to learn how to proactively deal with them. First up is to learn how to reduce sail quickly. How often have you reefed your sails? How deep can they be reefed?

Learn to predict weather conditions. 50 kt breezes don't just pop up unless there is a front coming through or in a thunderstorm.

Sail in the moment, but with a watchful eye towards the sky and the future. Know your options. If the breeze suddenly builds, can you reef? Is there a safe place to duck into?

Finally, when daysailing, sail upwind first and then sail back on beam and broad reaches. An hour sail downwind may turn into a 2 hour upwind sail back.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
RussC, I think you are on to something that has at least gone through my mind. Just reinforcement from another skipper may help. I have another friend who who has sailed a dingy for years. I'm going to have to ask him to go sailing with me again to try to regain confidence. I'm just looking to learn again that I have some headroom over my current conditions, so I relax instead of being needlessly paranoid.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Dave. That is an excellent idea. Dinghy sailors learn to deal with the challenges of tipping over in moderate conditions. Skills that will help.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
Learn to predict weather conditions. 50 kt breezes don't just pop up unless there is a front coming through or in a thunderstorm.
Yes, it was a thunderstorm with no excessive winds predicted. We just didn't realize how long it would take us to get in, and got caught.
Sail in the moment, but with a watchful eye towards the sky and the future. Know your options. If the breeze suddenly builds, can you reef? Is there a safe place to duck into?
I have one reef point, but it is only on the main. There is no reef on the jib, so the boat is misbalanced when the main is reefed. If you drop the jib, the boat doesn't sail up wind very well at all. The day I had 30mph winds, I found it better to just spill the main and keep the jib up, rather than reef and drop the jib.
Finally, when daysailing, sail upwind first and then sail back on beam and broad reaches. An hour sail downwind may turn into a 2 hour upwind sail back.
Actually in this boat, if the winds are 20 mph or less, it sails much faster upwind than downwind. Even a broad reach is not particularly fast. (no kite)
 
Nov 13, 2013
723
Catalina 34 Tacoma
Dave, maybe you need a bigger boat. A 24 ftr can be knocked down much easier than a 34ftr. Your current boat is a bit small for a family cruiser.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Dave

How does your boat sail with jib alone? My Mac22 I had years ago would sail very well with just a jib. Also, have you thought of getting a smaller head sail and setting up a down haul system for your current jib. A down haul is an inexpensive and very effective way to douse a head sail and keep it tame in a blow without leaving the cockpit.

You can do a search on this forum for down haul systems and get a lot of diagrams. If you have a spare block you can set one up for less than $30.

r
 

NYSail

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Jan 6, 2006
3,048
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
It's a lightweight 24 foot boat. Sail within that. Experts/heros can make a boat like that look exciting in 30 kn a breeze, but for most mortals it will be terrifying
100% right..... that's not a lot of weight. Know your weather and limits and enjoy. Sometimes we all get caught but that's the exception if we are smart and pay attention. Take a deep breath and cast off
 
Sep 23, 2009
1,475
O'Day 34-At Last Rock Hall, Md
Dave, maybe you need a bigger boat. A 24 ftr can be knocked down much easier than a 34ftr. Your current boat is a bit small for a family cruiser.
If fact I know where you can get a good deal on a 34 footer :biggrin:. But seriously, there is a phenomenal difference between 30 knots and 50 knots. Lots of boats have their speaders in this water at 50 knots, most are reefing at 20 knots.
Main thing is to relax and enjoy what you enjoy, it that's a max of 10 knots in a particular boat with a particular crew then enjoy that and motor for higher winds. Stay safe AND comfortable. Crewing on other people's boats for races may help you build your confidence.
The ship Bounty was tragically lost by an overconfident, although experienced captain. Remember this is supposed to be fun, not try to beat the odds. As they vote early and often in Chicago, so too should sailors reef early and often.
FYI, I would never personaly look to sail in 30 knots, but that's just me.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I'm sure I've been out in conditions where gusts are over 30 knots, but I doubt I've been out in sustained 35 knots or greater, and I doubt I've ever been out in anything that topped out over 40 knots. I've been pretty careful about not getting caught in pop-up storms.
I think that if you basically want to be out in those conditions or you don't want to feel overwhelmed by it, you have to re-think what kind of boat you should have. A small light weight boat with a transom hung engine is simply going to be pushed around. You've mentioned that you have an electric motor. I guess that is a good reason not to have any faith in 30 mph windspeed and over. As you found out, you needed to find a protected cove. That's a perfectly viable option when you choose your venue accordingly. On Lake Hopatcong, I always knew there were bail-out options. If you plan on sailing where you can't find a place to bail out, then you need to take the capability of boat and crew into consideration.
 
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Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
I didn't mention it, but yes the electric motor is limited, but I did bail out again this last trip. Put in at a cove. Pulled out the 4HP Suzuki from under the cockpit and got it fired up. (It had not been run in 2 years) It started with 3 pulls. But even at that, even though it was driving me straight into the wind, it struggled, and I was paranoid about it cutting out, even though it was running OK. Pushing into the wind, the motor was turning about half the RPM it normally runs.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Not to make light of the reported experience, but 30 mph is about 26 kt; 50 mph is 43 kt or so. Certainly, experiencing winds near 25 kt and the associated seas can be harrowing in certain situations. This equates to Force 6 (Strong Breeze) so is not gale force. A properly trimmed yacht should be able to sail in that, as you did. Over 40 kt and I would not want to be out there in a 1530# boat. Most folks I know would head for shelter in an approaching T-storm, as you did. One tactic if caught out and you have room is to go to bare poles until the strongest winds pass; 20 to 30 min.
 
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Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Actually in this boat, if the winds are 20 mph or less, it sails much faster upwind than downwind. Even a broad reach is not particularly fast. (no kite)
Going upwind out and downwind home notion is not about boat speed per se, but about the effect of wind shifts and distance sailed. In order to cover a mile to a destination dead upwind, it will be necessary to sail about a 1.5 miles because you can't sail dead upwind. Sailing to a destination a mile dead down wind requires sailing a mile. If you can sail upwind at 6 knots it will take 15 minutes to sail that 1.5 miles. If you can sail 4 knots downwind, it will take 15 minutes to sail that one mile. All is well and good, time sailing out is the same as time sailing back.

Consider the same trip, but throw in an adverse wind shift on the outbound leg. If you get a knock you will have to sail a longer distance on the unfavored tack in order to reach your destination. That adds time and distance. In contrast, a wind shift on the homebound leg will only help. And it doesn't matter if the shift is to the left or right. Any shift of 270 degrees or less, will improve boat speed by placing the boat on a more favorable point of sail.

You found yourself downwind of your destination, leaving you with few good choices. An upwind slog in high winds is generally not in any one's definition of fun. It is wet, noisy, and the boat heels way too much. As you found out even motors are not all that helpful. These situations spawn "OMG, we're all gonna die!" moments. But you know this now.

The alternative is finding yourself upwind of your destination when the weather goes sour. Now you're sailing down wind, the apparent wind is much lower, boat speed is good, it is not heeling as much, it is pretty much a sleigh ride. No need for the motor, just sail the boat. The only issue is trying not to gybe, but that can be controlled by broad reaching and not running. All in all a much more pleasant experience.
 
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