The LiFePo4 Revolution!

[Bob J.]

I'd like to see some substantiation for this claim. I have never heard if it myself. Has anyone's insurance provider EVER asked you what kind of batteries you had? Not me!

My insurance company never asked when I told them I had an electric boat. But at the time I insured with them going with LifePo4 batteries would have cost more than I paid for the boat

I've seen many people reaching out, looking for insurance companies after being denied insurance due to LifePo4 battery installations on some of the FB boating groups I tune into to watch the show. I suspect in the future it will become more difficult for those with DIY battery installations to insure their boats. Perhaps domestically produced LifePo4 battery manufacturers are aware of upcoming insurance issues & are working/lobbying behind the scenes to ensure their product with commanding prices will be insurable. When I see a 12v, 320 AH battery with a retail price over 5K, I gotta ask WTF.
That's all I got kiddo.

 

[jviss]

I think they are referring to organic chemistry, not organic farming.

 

[Johann]

Perhaps domestically produced LifePo4 battery manufacturers are aware of upcoming insurance issues & are working/lobbying behind the scenes to ensure their product with commanding prices will be insurable. When I see a 12v, 320 AH battery with a retail price over 5K, I gotta ask WTF.

I see zero indication Lithionics will not be insurable when TE-13 becomes a full standard. At half the price of Lithionics, Kilovault also seems to be in no danger from ABYC. At about half the price of Kilovault, there are LFP batteries with external Bluetooth that MAY comply, we will have to wait and see. Then there are the non communicating LFP (Battleborn…) that seem to be at greatest risk. Hopefully there will be an alternate method of compliance. So, yes, IF your insurance requires an ABYC compliant install you may want to wait, or go with Kilovault or Lithionics. But honestly I can’t see ABYC not providing SOME way of compliance…

 

[jviss]

I see zero indication Lithionics will not be insurable when TE-13 becomes a full standard. At half the price of Lithionics, Kilovault also seems to be in no danger from ABYC. At about half the price of Kilovault, there are LFP batteries with external Bluetooth that MAY comply, we will have to wait and see. Then there are the non communicating LFP (Battleborn…) that seem to be at greatest risk. Hopefully there will be an alternate method of compliance. So, yes, IF your insurance requires an ABYC compliant install you may want to wait, or go with Kilovault or Lithionics. But honestly I can’t see ABYC not providing SOME way of compliance…

Are you an ABYC member? If so what membership level, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Johann]

Are you an ABYC member? If so what membership level, if you don't mind me asking?

No, I just try to read everything RC (who is a on the LFP committee I believe) writes on the subject. His Boat Electrical System and LiFePo4 Drop-In Batteries For Boats FB groups are pretty good resources (and of course Marinehowto.com). Also when reputable installers who are ABYC members are recommending and installing Lithionics and Kilovault batteries I think that tells you something even if they aren’t allowed to discuss the specifics of the upcoming standards.

 

[Maine Sail]

Markel insurance:

 

[smokey73]

Ouch @Maine Sail. If I'm reading your post correctly (which I might not be) there is an indication that one might not be able to insure a boat with a value of more than $150,000 (I'm not in danger there). Does the last line mean that if you insured at $150K of hull value you'd have a "deductible" so to speak of $75K and if liability was involved they would only pay 1/2 of the liability award. In other words, you are self insured for 1/2 of the loss and liabiility up to a maximum payout by the insurance company of $500K. After that you are on your own. Do those conditions apply regardless of the cause of the loss (ie a collision that sinks your boat would still have those limits imposed) if it was not a battery failure related loss?

Regardless of the real physical risk, that imposes a pretty hefty financial risk.

 

[dLj]

Markel insurance:

@Maine Sail - reading this, it seems Battleborn batteries would comply with the first two points a) and b) as they are US manufactured and come with their BMS system installed in the batteries? Would that be correct?

dj

 

[Johann]

Does the last line mean that if you insured at $150K of hull value you'd have a "deductible" so to speak of $75K and if liability was involved they would only pay 1/2 of the liability award. In other words, you are self insured for 1/2 of the loss and liabiility up to a maximum payout by the insurance company of $500K. After that you are on your own.

Pretty sure the 50% is added cost of the premiums for hull and liability (ie 150% of the non-LFP premiums). And the $500k is max total they would pay in any claim. So don’t sink in an busy channel or burn up in a marina.

 

[Maine Sail]

@Maine Sail - reading this, it seems Battleborn batteries would comply with the first two points a) and b) as they are US manufactured and come with their BMS system installed in the batteries? Would that be correct?

dj

The insurers, such as Markel etc. want to see a US company, on US soil, so they have someone to go after should an accident occur.

Batteries such as Kilovault, Lithionics, Battleborn, Dakota, Relion, Mastervolt, Victron, Trojan, Lifeline etc. would meet this criteria.

Batteries that come directly from China from non US Based companies such as SOK, AmpereTime, Chins, AO Lithium etc. Would not meet this criteria.

 

[Maine Sail]

. But honestly I can’t see ABYC not providing SOME way of compliance…

That is not the job of the ABYC or ISO etc. They set the standards and if the industry players want in they need to comply. No different than the recent NEC/NFPA updates for marina's etc. were the 100ma ELCI breakers they have mandated by law are not yet even available..