The LiFePo4 Revolution!

cagreen75 · Feb 28, 2022

jviss said:
For a given load.
Our 340-watt solar system provides more than enough power to run everything we use while sailing so long as the sun is out. Of course, nothing is perfect and on cloudy days the batteries have to make up for the solar.

Yes, if you're only using a trickle of power.
While I don't keep track of our power use at anchor I do know that our 210 a/hr bank has never gone below 75 - 80 % overnight.

All of this is useless without knowing the power budget, bank size, and generation capability.
We have 2 group 31Lifeline AGM batteries, 340 watts of solar with an MPPT controller and we just installed a 120 amp Balmar alternator with an external regulator this year. Our largest load is the fridge. Other than that we only use one led light after dark and we usually are on a mooring so no anchor light. We also do not have an inverter. So our loads are pretty small.

I'm not sure if I did this reply properly. I should probably learn how to do that.

dLj · Feb 28, 2022

cagreen75 said:
I'm not sure if I did this reply properly. I should probably learn how to do that.

Let me see if I can help you out. You got your reply mixed into the "Reply w/Quote" text in the html language.

Let me see if I can reconstruct your original post, and then show you how you would make it work. (I think I can do this)...

jviss said:

jviss said:
For a given load.

Our 340-watt solar system provides more than enough power to run everything we use while sailing so long as the sun is out. Of course, nothing is perfect and on cloudy days the batteries have to make up for the solar.

jviss said:
Yes, if you're only using a trickle of power.

While I don't keep track of our power use at anchor I do know that our 210 a/hr bank has never gone below 75 - 80 % overnight.

jviss said:
All of this is useless without knowing the power budget, bank size, and generation capability.

We have 2 group 31Lifeline AGM batteries, 340 watts of solar with an MPPT controller and we just installed a 120 amp Balmar alternator with an external regulator this year. Our largest load is the fridge. Other than that we only use one led light after dark and we usually are on a mooring so no anchor light. We also do not have an inverter. So our loads are pretty small.

So this is what I think your original post should have looked like...

dj

dLj · Feb 28, 2022

I've attached an image of the html text here (not perfect, but close):

Note the start and end of quoted text.... It takes practice...

dj

cagreen75 · Feb 28, 2022

dLj said:
Let me see if I can help you out. You got your reply mixed into the "Reply w/Quote" text in the html language.

Let me see if I can reconstruct your original post, and then show you how you would make it work. (I think I can do this)...

jviss said:

Our 340-watt solar system provides more than enough power to run everything we use while sailing so long as the sun is out. Of course, nothing is perfect and on cloudy days the batteries have to make up for the solar.

While I don't keep track of our power use at anchor I do know that our 210 a/hr bank has never gone below 75 - 80 % overnight.

We have 2 group 31Lifeline AGM batteries, 340 watts of solar with an MPPT controller and we just installed a 120 amp Balmar alternator with an external regulator this year. Our largest load is the fridge. Other than that we only use one led light after dark and we usually are on a mooring so no anchor light. We also do not have an inverter. So our loads are pretty small.

So this is what I think your original post should have looked like...

dj

I was just looking on the forum to see how to reply with quotes and I haven't found any information. Is there someplace to go and learn how this works? You are right, I thought that your fix is how my post was going to look like. Opps.

cagreen75 · Feb 28, 2022

jviss said:
Yes, you messed it up; I didn't say all of those things you're quoting me to have said.

Sorry about that. I think I found out what I did wrong with help from dLj

dLj · Feb 28, 2022

cagreen75 said:
I was just looking on the forum to see how to reply with quotes and I haven't found any information. Is there someplace to go and learn how this works? You are right, I thought that your fix is how my post was going to look like. Opps.

No worries - it comes with practice. I don't know where you can find help - some of what I just did was simple html mark-up language.

One thing you can do before posting is click the PREVIEW button next to the POST REPLY button and it will show you what your post looks like...

We've all posted poorly at one time or another...

dj

Bob J. · Mar 1, 2022

jssailem said:
Those OceanPlanet Energy Battery Prices sure look rich.
Maybe those are Canadian Dollars...
***Battery models change often, prices subject to change without notice****
Lithionics Lithium Batteries 12 Volt LiFePO4 (12.8V nominal)

Case/Size BMS Model Capacity (Ahs) Capacity (kWh) Weight Price General Notes:
G31
12.5” x 6.5” x 8.5” Internal 12V130A-G31-LRBM8 130Ah 1.6kWh 34lb $1679

OPE Battery Pricelist

OceanPlanet Energy Battery Price List ***Battery models change often, prices subject to change without notice**** * = New Models! Lithionics Lithium Batteries Lithionics 12 Volt LiFePO4 (12.8V nominal for 12V systems) (**Can be used in series for 25.6V & 51.2V systems) Case/Size BMS Mo...

docs.google.com

I have to chuckle when one uses the term "organic" in the sales propaganda for a battery.

Little off track but this reminds me when we had the farm. One of our Bostonian customers noticed we sold firewood. Yes we do & kidding around I told them it was "organic" firewood. Over the next month several pickup trucks made their way back to the city loaded with "organic" firewood.
I can't make this stuff up.

dLj · Mar 1, 2022

Misfits said:
I have to chuckle when one uses the term "organic" in the sales propaganda for a battery.

Little off track but this reminds me when we had the farm. One of our Bostonian customers noticed we sold firewood. Yes we do & kidding around I told them it was "organic" firewood. Over the next month several pickup trucks made their way back to the city loaded with "organic" firewood.
I can't make this stuff up.

Transporting firewood is not a good idea. It's illegal to transport more than a certain distance because of pest control. The wood needs to be treated to not spread pests. It's a real problem. I'm only saying this here because a lot of people are unaware of this.

dj

Bob J. · Mar 1, 2022

jviss said:
Great thread hijack, thanks. We go from LiFePo4 batteries to firewood.

Oh gosh no, I wouldn't hijack your thread.
Had no idea it would become P.S.A.

I was just using the firewood example of how sales propaganda plays into the efforts of U.S. companies to promote product at what I consider criminal prices. Even Battleborn when comparing their product to FLA really stretches the truth about self discharge @ 33% per month. If that was true, there wouldn't be a FLA battery on any shelf in the world.

I have an electric boat so I've been watching this closely for sometime.
Right now I could purchase 3.2 Grade A cells from China & build my own 16S, 48v propulsion bank with a BMS for under 2K not including shipping. To replace my 4- Trojan 150 AH FLA batteries today would be around $1200.00. I feel it now makes sense for me to seriously consider making the change when the time comes. This wasn't the case six years ago.

BUT there's no way I would spend the kind of money on LifePo4 batteries folks are asking for domestically. I can't wrap my head or wallet around that.

Being objective, if all I had on my boat was a 12v house bank, not sure I'd make the change. You can still get a couple of Duracell GC batteries for under $200.00

The other thing to be cautious about with LifePo4 batteries; I'm hearing about alot of folks being denied insurance because they made the switch even when using domestically purchased product. Be sure to check with your insurance carrier.

Johann · Mar 1, 2022

Misfits said:
I have to chuckle when one uses the term "organic" in the sales propaganda for a battery.

Where‘d you see that?

Johann · Mar 2, 2022

jviss said:
I'd like to see some substantiation for this claim. I have never heard if it myself. Has anyone's insurance provider EVER asked you what kind of batteries you had? Not me!

Well we’ve had 2 insurance companies since installing LFP. AMIG just said they must be installed in accordance with the battery manufacturers instructions. Progressive says nothing. I’ve seen chatter on some of the Facebook groups about insurance denial, but it always seems to be resolved one way or another.

Johann · Mar 2, 2022

That being said, if your insurance requires a survey, I’ve read that some surveyors are flagging non ABYC compliant installations. The final standard for Lithium isn’t out yet, so that is something to consider.

smokey73 · Mar 2, 2022

Johann said:
That being said, if your insurance requires a survey, I’ve read that some surveyors are flagging non ABYC compliant installations. The final standard for Lithium isn’t out yet, so that is something to consider.

Interesting IF true. I could see if you do a major "upgrade" that is not in compliance with ABYC standards an insurance survey COULD flag it and the insurance company COULD either require correction or deny coverage. (I emphasize could, not will). The problem with correcting is: IF there is no ABYC standard to use, how do you correct it to the insurance company's satisfaction?.

I imagine if you asked your insurance company before you did the installation it MIGHT just raise questions for them that wrap them around an axle and they would come down on the "risk averse" side and say "NO, not gonna insure you." Kind of like the old addage, its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Problem is insurance companies aren't inclined to forgive.

All that being said, an LFP ABYC standard will probably be coming down the pike, hopefully soon. Hard to imagine what it will look like but @jviss idea of an automatic fire extinguising system of the correct type for a LFP fire might be a good idea. I'd make sure to understand the MSDS and the fire extinguishing methods but nothing is "zero risk" so smart installation, top of the line equipment, and appropriate use go a long way to reducing risk to an acceptable level.

Bob J. · Mar 2, 2022

Johann said:
Where‘d you see that?

Case/Size	BMS	Model	Capacity (Ahs)	Capacity (kWh)	Weight	Price	General Notes:
G31 12.5” x 6.5” x 8.5”	Internal	12V130A-G31-LRBM8	130Ah	1.6kWh	34lb	$1679

The LiFePo4 Revolution!

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