Does anyone have a bilge pump counter? Have you ever taken any action based on the count? I always thought one might be useful.
The Great Bilge Pump Debate, 2023 Edition
- Thread starter jviss
- Start date
Are we over-thinking/analyzing this?
Every boat I've ever owned had a bilge pump with a float switch wired directly to the DC power. While it can be argued that such a design feature will not save the boat from flooding forever, it may save the boat from flooding over the short term.
Of course I also did the following flooding related steps when leaving the boat for an overnight, or long day period:
1. I checked the bilge carefully for evidence of leaking
2. I closed all seacocks. I made sure on my boats that I could easily access all through hulls.
3. I checked the battery charge state
4. If gone for longer than a week I had the boat checked.
I never had a problem in over forty years of owning cruising sailboats on moorings and in slips.
So a contrarian could argue why bother with the direct wiring of the pump?
Because s**t happens......
Every boat I've ever owned had a bilge pump with a float switch wired directly to the DC power. While it can be argued that such a design feature will not save the boat from flooding forever, it may save the boat from flooding over the short term.
Of course I also did the following flooding related steps when leaving the boat for an overnight, or long day period:
1. I checked the bilge carefully for evidence of leaking
2. I closed all seacocks. I made sure on my boats that I could easily access all through hulls.
3. I checked the battery charge state
4. If gone for longer than a week I had the boat checked.
I never had a problem in over forty years of owning cruising sailboats on moorings and in slips.
So a contrarian could argue why bother with the direct wiring of the pump?
Because s**t happens......
Well, this IS a forum on the internet..... so, yeah... perhaps.....
No physical counter, but I have a raspberry pi that monitors my bilge pump (and other things) and emails me if the pump runs. It has been handy once or twice, notifying me when a hose clamp was loose and when our cockpit shower head was leaking in the lazarette.
I'd actually thought about installing one when I put in my momentary/off/auto switch when i bought my then 12 year old boat in 1998. After learning about the boat, doing what Rick does, and "knowing" when anything unusual was occurring, I figured it wasn't necessary. One time I was out for a long cruise and noted the red light on that switch came on, and checked the bilge, and, yup, it had water in it. So I tightened the stuffing box which was the ONLY place where water comes in, and it's been fine ever since.
It's a good thing to have if you think you have a problem when you're not there, so go ahead and put one in. Peace of mind is always good.
I concur with your list, your approach and your conclusion.
This winter when I was at my boat I noticed my neighbors bilge pump running. It would run for about 15 seconds and stop for about 10. I couldn't reach him or the marina manager. The boat was locked and I didn't have any bolt cutters with me. I went sailing and eventually got in contact with him. He hadn't properly winterized his boat and damaged the strainer with the through hull valve left open. In this case it did save his boat from sinking. He is a new boater and has a steep learning curve ahead of him.
Several years ago I accidentally left my fresh water pump on. That boat had 2 very small leaks in the fresh water system. I came back to the boat a week later and it had water up to the floorboards. I was lucky and only had minimal damage. I found and fixed the small leaks that day. At the time I had all the parts to install an automatic pump switch but hadn't gotten around to it yet, I wished I had.
I have the feeling that some of the folks on this forum that don't see any value in an automatic bilge pump would be the first to criticize another forum member if his boat sank or was damaged without one. Why wouldn't we want this simple and cheap safety device?
Several years ago I accidentally left my fresh water pump on. That boat had 2 very small leaks in the fresh water system. I came back to the boat a week later and it had water up to the floorboards. I was lucky and only had minimal damage. I found and fixed the small leaks that day. At the time I had all the parts to install an automatic pump switch but hadn't gotten around to it yet, I wished I had.
I have the feeling that some of the folks on this forum that don't see any value in an automatic bilge pump would be the first to criticize another forum member if his boat sank or was damaged without one. Why wouldn't we want this simple and cheap safety device?
I certainly see the value of an automatic bilge pump! With today's available technology I'm just surprised that cell phone based high water alerts/alarms are not more prevalent.
I sort of do indirectly. I have a simple and cheap wireless camera located both above and below deck. It will send me an email with photos if there is a sound or motion detected from either camera (sensitivity user selectable). I have confirmed that if the bilge alarm sounds, I will receiver an email alerting me that a sound was detected. I can then log into that camera from my phone or computer and both listen and view in real time. There are certainly systems available that do this and a lot more at a price.
Security and monitoring for your boat
Security and monitoring for your boat
A couple of the guys at my marina have some sort of cell phone based monitoring device. It's not very high on my list, but it is on my list.
Sooooo, let us twist the topic a little.
In my mind, there is a far better chance of my boat having a minor leak the a major catastrophic failure.
My bilge pump is a rule 1500, 1500 gph or 25 gpm.
So lets do some math. Kind of a nerdy thing but it is Monday and I am bored.
PS, the numbers are approximate.
Let's look at the maximum flow rate through various size pipes with the assumed leak being low pressure, about 6 f/s flow velocity.
1/2"........... 7 gpm or 420 gph
3/4"........... 11 gpm or 660 gph
1" .............. 16 gpm or 960 gph
1 1/4" ........ 25 gpm or 1500 gph
It is at this point the secondary pump kicks in. Mind you the secondary pump has to be mounted in a manner to keep the primary pump motor dry. It is my opinion that the secondary pump needs to be larger than the primary pump.
1 1/2" ........ 35 gpm or 2100 gph
2" ............... 55 gpm or 3300 gph
Let's up the game and assumed average pressure is 20-100 PSI. About 12 f/s flow velocity.
1/2"........... 14 gpm or 840 gph
3/4"........... 23 gpm or 1410 gph
Again, at is at this point the secondary pump kicks in.
1" .............. 37 gpm or 2,200 gph
1 1/4" ........ 62 gpm or 3750 gph
It is my best guess, good pumps and a good battery with a charger should keep my boat high and dry.
In my mind, there is a far better chance of my boat having a minor leak the a major catastrophic failure.
My bilge pump is a rule 1500, 1500 gph or 25 gpm.
So lets do some math. Kind of a nerdy thing but it is Monday and I am bored.
PS, the numbers are approximate.
Let's look at the maximum flow rate through various size pipes with the assumed leak being low pressure, about 6 f/s flow velocity.
1/2"........... 7 gpm or 420 gph
3/4"........... 11 gpm or 660 gph
1" .............. 16 gpm or 960 gph
1 1/4" ........ 25 gpm or 1500 gph
It is at this point the secondary pump kicks in. Mind you the secondary pump has to be mounted in a manner to keep the primary pump motor dry. It is my opinion that the secondary pump needs to be larger than the primary pump.
1 1/2" ........ 35 gpm or 2100 gph
2" ............... 55 gpm or 3300 gph
Let's up the game and assumed average pressure is 20-100 PSI. About 12 f/s flow velocity.
1/2"........... 14 gpm or 840 gph
3/4"........... 23 gpm or 1410 gph
Again, at is at this point the secondary pump kicks in.
1" .............. 37 gpm or 2,200 gph
1 1/4" ........ 62 gpm or 3750 gph
It is my best guess, good pumps and a good battery with a charger should keep my boat high and dry.
As noted in my post above, I have one, and yes, it has prompted action more than once. Usually it’s just an early reminder to check the stuffing box, but one time it alerted me to a potentially more serious stuffing box issue.
In preparing for my delivery trip to winter haulout, I had adjusted the stuffing box and then gone to the fuel dock and pump out station the day before. Less than 24 hours later, the morning of the delivery trip, the bilge pump counter read something like 27 cycles. Normal is zero to one cycle in a week when the boat is unoccupied at the dock. Red alert.
It turned out that I somehow had not sufficiently tightened down the stuffing box lock nut, it had backed off and was dripping too fast to count without even being in gear. My delivery trip is about six hours through the Chicago River lock and 24 draw bridges, lots of shifting in tight quarters between bridges. Had I not been tipped off to the issue, it could have backed off completely, and become a heavy stream, maybe a gusher. Then the Bilge pump 2 alarm would have eventually gone on and created a rather urgent distraction at a bad time.
The cycle counter alerted me to the problem, I was able to re-adjust the stuffing box before we left the dock, and it was an uneventful delivery. Disaster, or at least way more excitement than I need, averted.
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Rule 1500 gph pump. manual, page 4, "danger" paragraph. did you read that paragraph?
if you think such a pump, pumps 1500 gph of water from your bilge back to the sea on your boat then you are a fool! and certainly not a seaman. not even 1/2 that amount. not even 1/3 that amount. read the manual you wana bee's
how many minutes of continual running does a non vented pump last?
read the manual, danger paragraph, page 4. that pump will not keep any boat afloat, not to be used beyond removing a little spray or rain leak.
you think a $110.00 pump is going to save your life much less your boat?
the way yawl talk it seems you might.
don't take my word, read the damm manual
if you think such a pump, pumps 1500 gph of water from your bilge back to the sea on your boat then you are a fool! and certainly not a seaman. not even 1/2 that amount. not even 1/3 that amount. read the manual you wana bee's
how many minutes of continual running does a non vented pump last?
read the manual, danger paragraph, page 4. that pump will not keep any boat afloat, not to be used beyond removing a little spray or rain leak.
you think a $110.00 pump is going to save your life much less your boat?
the way yawl talk it seems you might.
don't take my word, read the damm manual
I take it you're not in love with this pump ? I certainly believe it's not worth much more than a paper weight.
Would you mind posting a copy of page four as it's always nice to see confirmation and I can't be bothered to hunt down the each and every manual to which an author makes reference ? Thanks.
By the way, the Tartan 38 is the first generation 38 from Tartan, a Sparkman and Stephens design that is the same hull as the Tartan 37 with a deeper fin keel and taller rig. Mine's a Tartan 3800, a Tim Jackett design.
Yes, probably so. Bilge pumps are for nuisance water, in my view. For a serious leak you'll need what the USCG calls a "de-watering device," i.e., a gas powered trash pump!
It might if the ingress is slow. A slow and steady accumulation of water might sink the boat over several unattended months or even weeks of ingress. But a pump keeps the water low through repeated pumping intervals if the battery does not give out, etc. Remember, if there is a single additional (final) straw that breaks a camel’s back then there’s a last final milliliter that sinks a boat that a bilge pump could keep out, etc.
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page 5, mentions "flooding". the OP mentioned "flooding"
page 7, gph graph.
when talking safety gear, we need to understand what's real
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i sail with a crew, sailing is a team sport for me. i have a P.A.R. bilge pump, which is slow, but will run a long time.
i have 2 manual whale pumps that can be manned by crew, fueled by adrenaline while others stop the flooding. hopefully! i have 2 buckets.
backed up by a 10 man survival raft that is designed for the great lakes.
think safety!
i have 2 manual whale pumps that can be manned by crew, fueled by adrenaline while others stop the flooding. hopefully! i have 2 buckets.
backed up by a 10 man survival raft that is designed for the great lakes.
think safety!