The GAS Crunch

[Dennis]

Why, with the unending rise in gas pricing, is not the companies going back to gasohol? The mix was sold in gas stations sometime ago, but then was discontinued. Though the mix was only a small percentage of the whole, it did help to cut down on the usage of the total petroleum package! Plus if they are so worried about pollution, gasohol polluted less as well! I for one would be glad to see it returned to usage! I checked to see if anywhere anyone had ever converted their outboard motors to an alcohol fuel system, but couldnt find any info!

 

[Didereaux]

Limited corn

Corn the major grain involved in gasahol production is limited by acreage available and demand by other sectors. Corn is generally grown on the same types of soils and conditions as soybeans.Corn is a major feed ingredient for livestock and those demands also dictate price. Soybeans are a MAJOR human as well as animal food product. There is a finite amount of the planets area that is suitable for producing these crops the result is a balancing act.Unfortunately with the huge decline in our education system the last couple of generations have little or no knowledge of food and its production, quite unlike 50 years ago when even a kid in the Bronx knew a little about it.No, 'growing' gas is not an option, short term or long term, to solve our petroleum supply problems.

 

[Dennis]

Ethanol or Methanol, a choice!

There is Ethanol, products of corn etc. and Methanol, or wood alcohol, both of which would work, as a fuel additive! I understand there is a new mix of diesel fuel made with some of these products now available! I understand that the government pays farmers to withhold all they can grow in order to keep prices inflated! Also land that is undesirable, can be made usable, with modifications! Like so many other things there is a massive amount of waste and much is simply thrown away, that could be funneled for better use! Thanks for the imput!

 

[RichH]

Ethanol

Why not simply use straight ethanol. All you need to do is rejet the carburator so that it delivers approx 4X the flow rate of gasoline. Down side is that it burns hotter than gasoline so you need to increase the volumetric flow of the cooling water so that the thermodynamic heat ejection is increased. Burning straight alcohol is 'hard' on an engine but it can be done.

 

[Rob]

They are doing it

They are doing it right now - they meaning Corn farmers and bankers ready to finance the operation. I read an interesting article on-line that I can't seem to find but it reported on how these mid-west corn farms that were being subsidized are now selling out of stock for ethanol production. Then the bankers are coming in to raise $ - building distillers that convert the corn to fuel. It is a rapidly growing business in the mid-west but only amounts to a small % of the overall fuel the US consume - I don't have the numbers. Hopefully it will pay off. Right now it is an extremely tight profit margin so it looks like a risky proposition for the distillers and investors. The good thing is that some mid-west towns that were literally turning into "Ghost Towns" are now fully employed.

 

[Ed6905]

I use it every fill

But it is only about 5 cents per gal cheaper.

 

[Mike4116]

NOT in a 2-stroke

I don't know if the manufacturers of outboards reject methanol or ethanol but they are definite that alcohol/gasoline mix fuels are verboten in their 2-stroke products. I can testify that I once used some in a 1982 vintage mercury 9.5 horse and it messed it up but good. Perhaps the newer 2-strokes and the 4-strokes will tolerate the stuff but as late as 1995 Mercury literature says: NO! to the mix.Mike

 

[p323ms]

Alcohol is not just from corn

Almost any source of sugar can be fermented. The big bonus of corn is that after fermentation the residual yeast and unfermented corn is still good animal feed. Maybe even better pound for pound. The bottm line is dollars..ethanol costs more per gallon and has less energy per gallon. Driving in to work today I noticed that most of the vehicles on the road were SUV's or trucks and most had only one passenger.... If only it would become fashionable to drive hot little sports cars that get 45 miles to the gallon we could cut consumption far more than using gasohol... It's right down strange that we use a huge SUV to transport a 120# woman. I suspect that as gas prices get higher more people will choose reasonable transportation. Market forces are brutal and I personally would prefer government regulations that encourage high MPG vehicles. With government regulations cutting demand prices could stay low. That way getting to work won't break people's budgets. We are lucky to be sailers!!!! Tom

 

[Rob]

I Agree

I agree with you there on the SUV debate - what is the point? I bought a Sailboat because I love to sail and 90% of the time all boaters (sail or power)are on the hook, mooring or dock - whats the hurry in getting there?

 

[Franklin]

I've said it before

Motorbikes. They are cheaper to buy (mine cost $6,000 brand new), have better pickup then even the best sports car, get 4 times better gas mileage then a SUV, better for the environment and economy, funner to drive. I just don't know why I keep seeing everybody in a SUV with only one passenger and no visible baggage when it's sunny and 75% out. Some say they can't afford a bike. I say I can't afford to not have a bike. My bike pays for itself in the money I save in gas. Sure, I have a truck, but I only drive it when it's raining, I have stuff that just will not fit on the bike, or when I need the 4x4 like when I'm hunting.

 

[Scott]

Growing corn for gas? Not particularly good.

Corn is a commodity and the price of it is established by the laws of supply and demand. The problem is, our farmers can grow so much that there is an over supply that leads to prices that are too low to enable farmers to earn any profit. That is why the feds step in to offer subsidy to farmers not to grow corn. It helps bolster prices and it has the side benefit of preserving the nutrients in farmland and allowing fields to "recover" by laying fallow. Now, growing corn for ethanol may be a good thing because it helps stimulate demand for corn, thus raising prices that help farmers make a profit, and possibly reducing federal subsidies to farmers (a form of welfare).However, there is no free lunch. Increased corn production means more highly intense farming activities, depletion of soil nutrients and increased topsoil runoff into the streams and rivers. The muddy Mississippi deposits an enormous amount into the Gulf every day.Farming is an industry that contributes a significant share of pollution in our environment. Think of all the fertilizers and pesticides that are produced for this industry and where these chemicals are deposited. It is romantic to think that farms are bucolic and entirely benign, but that isn't the case.I'm not putting farmers down because their role in our society is essential. If we demand greater pollution controls in this industry, we will all feel the economic pinch.I would rather preserve farmland in Iowa and pay for pollution controls in the midwest than prevent drilling for oil in ANWR. What do I care if the porcupine caribou up there have to see an oil rig when they are in their mating grounds. Pristine wilderness? Bah! It's an empty wasteland and the oil can be harvested with barely any degradation to the environment. When the drilling is done, the caribou can have it all back and there won't be any difference. For those of you that keep calling for conservation, go ahead, lead the way. I guess we all agree that there are benefits to sailing!

 

[Warren]

Net energy loss

More importantly to the economics of ethanol is that the production of ethanol from corn is a net energy loss. The amount of energy required to produce the corn (production of the fertilizer, gas for the farm equipment, electricity for the water pumps, gas to transport the corn to the ethanol plant, etc.) and turn it into ethanol is greater than the energy content of the fuel produced. For every gallon of ethanol produced, we dig ourselves into a deeper hole as far as energy independence goes. We would be much better off improving the fuel efficiency of vehicles. (BTW, the production of hydrogen for fueling cars is also a net energy loss.)W

 

[Jeff]

Hydrogen as a net energy loss - phallacy

"BTW, the production of hydrogen for fueling cars is also a net energy loss."First off, most current hydrogen production is for a small amount of industrial use. They strip it from hydrocarbons in the least expensive manner possible, not the most energy efficient.Second, hydrogen is NOT an energy source (well, it would be if we could find it raw in the wild). Hydrogen is basically a way to store, transport and use energy. For example, we could use wind power out at sea to create pure hydrogen from the water. Then transport the H2 to shore to burn in our cars. Essentially, we would be driving on wind power.Nobody in their right mind would ever consider, as a viable solution, the stripping of hydrogen from hydrocarbons using electricity from a hydrocarbon fueled power plant in order to replace gasoline in cars - though that is the picture painted by many in media (AM radio, ahem) and the government. Ain't propaganda grand?

 

[Franklin]

Ferterlizer

New (not really) concept. We grow food, we eat food, we discharge waste which we put back into the ground to return minerals to where they came from. The last part is actually what my company gets paid to do. The farmers love it because it works and it's a lot cheaper then ferterlizer.

 

[Droop]

Who cares

American want big cars and fast power boats. They don't want to burn crapy gasohol. I say, buy oil stock and cash in! I see $3 to $4 per gallon very soon. Smart people buy sailboats and cars with high MPG ratings. Cash in on the stupid people and buy oil stocks!

 

[Dennis]

More money!

I read somewhere, that in the not so distant future, both a gallon of gas, and milk, would be around five dollars a gallon! I guess we better get use to it!

 

[Paul H]

Alternative Sources of Energy

Many of you are old enough to remember the oil embargo in the 70's. We started on a course of looking and exploring for alternative sources of power. Unfortunately, we as a nation are addicted to power and cheap oil. The oil companies and the foreign oil interests knew this. So they ended up dropping the prices of oil so that any alternative energy sources were so expensive to persue they either went out of business or floundered from lack of funding. This was over 30 years ago. Imagine where we would have been today if we had stayed the course. We have no one to blame but ourselves for this current condition. We drive 4 wheel drive trucks and SUV's. We can also say it's the oil companies and all the special interest groups that are to blame but aren't a lot of us stock holders in these same companies? We need to free ourselves from our addiction by taking action. We are not helpless. As the old saying goes"If we can develop the technology to put a man on the moon we can find a solution for the energy crisis". The immediate answers are hard but simple. Kind of like losing weight. You want to lose weight eat less. But like weight loss this gas shortage is a long term problem with no easy short term solution. Sorry for getting on the soap box.Paul HS/V Lind Belle95 H26

 

[p323ms]

remember corn oil!!

Oil doesn't ferment so the oil in th ecorn can be used for biodiesel and the starch can be converted to sugar for the yeasts. Then the yeast and residual can be fed to cows and then the cow waste can be used for methane production. When corn is used to make ethanol there are many other possibilities to make it cost effective. Sugar beets can be used also where they grow better than corn, Soybean and rapeseed oils can be used for diesel. Again the soybean meal left over from oil production can be used as animal and human food. And again after the chickens poop out the crap from eating soybean meal the poop can be used to produce methane. With genetic engineering crops can be developed specifically to produce oils for use as fuels. I agree with a previous post that these alternatives have a hard time competing with cheap oil from the middle east. But if you consider all of the costs associated with fossil fuels they aren't so cheap. Our two wars with Iraq jump to mind. Not to mention global warming and oil spills. Our willingness to support terrorists countries to get their oil may have very far reaching consequences. Remember 15 of the 9-11 hijackers were from good ole Saudi Arabia...none were from Iraq. We didn't even threaten to stop importing Saudi oil as a protest. The Taliban was supported in large part by our oil money going to Saudis who supported the Taliban. Growing our own energy would have many benefits not the least of which is that it would help our balance of trade. We are borrowing huge amounts of money to support our thrist for oil.  Personally if I have to replace my diesel I am considering using a wind generator lots of solar panels and an electric motor. Since we don't motor that much and only use the boat a couple of weekends a month we might not need any shore power. And the money spent would mostly stay in the USA!!!!

 

[AL Hughes]

Using too much waste

When crude Oil started being being refined, Gasoline was a waste product. We are now using too much waste. We need to take this usage of waste to the next step.We need to start taping into garbage dumps and the Methane gas it generates to run in our cars etc. Seems like with the world populations increasing, the methane gas production would be increased with the increase population and waste being generated.This would make Methane gas self supporting.The sources are endless. Farms with domed barns,sewage plants with domes to trap the methane gas,the opportunites are endless. Just think, More people more gas. Keep sailing.

 

[Dan McGuire]

Driving Across Kansas

Across Kansas they have these pumps on oil well heads. A year ago only a very small percentage of them were running. Now almost all of them are operating. Apparently the high oil prices are not bad for everyone.