I have been into the large power boat arena for the past 20 years and now in my early sixties have dicided to trade in the big diesels for sails. I am seeking a boat in the 40 to 44 foot range that will be used most of the time for coastal sailing, but making some passages could be in my future. I'm looking for a boat that holds value, is managible by two people, and typically are outfitted with quality gear(winches, pumps,air ,engines,etc.)Would you folks provide me with your top five brands that I should be looking at. John
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Tom
Value
New or used? You need something like a Hunter 430 or 460. Roomy, seaworthy, efficient systems, easy to handle, excellent value. You probably won't be too happy with anything smaller than that since you came from larger boats.
New or used? You need something like a Hunter 430 or 460. Roomy, seaworthy, efficient systems, easy to handle, excellent value. You probably won't be too happy with anything smaller than that since you came from larger boats.
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J
More info
First recognize that that any forum is biased. You did'nt say what your budget was which needs to include not only purchase price but also equipment replacement and upgrades depending on the age of the boat. What do you mean by passage? The use of the boat can dictate what direction needs to be followed as far as selection.
First recognize that that any forum is biased. You did'nt say what your budget was which needs to include not only purchase price but also equipment replacement and upgrades depending on the age of the boat. What do you mean by passage? The use of the boat can dictate what direction needs to be followed as far as selection.
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David Walters
best value
Since you know that value is partitially at least defined by the quality and reliability of the various systems that make the total package, I'll give my stab at this. Not as a 'been there, done that' but mostly as a vouyeur of all things sailing for the last 20 years. Keep in mind that I think some newer technologies make the value higher, so some of these options are certainly newer/more modern in appearance. Also, these would be assuming used boats. The value factor of a new boat is lost on me. Tartan Sabre Island Packet Valiant Pearson Not necessarily in that order, but in the size range your looking, I think these brands have exhibited their high value, by remaining sought after and thus maintaining good reputations and mid-range prices, even as they age. david
Since you know that value is partitially at least defined by the quality and reliability of the various systems that make the total package, I'll give my stab at this. Not as a 'been there, done that' but mostly as a vouyeur of all things sailing for the last 20 years. Keep in mind that I think some newer technologies make the value higher, so some of these options are certainly newer/more modern in appearance. Also, these would be assuming used boats. The value factor of a new boat is lost on me. Tartan Sabre Island Packet Valiant Pearson Not necessarily in that order, but in the size range your looking, I think these brands have exhibited their high value, by remaining sought after and thus maintaining good reputations and mid-range prices, even as they age. david
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Don Rice
Choosing the right boat
I would suggest you go to the attached Web site and read the articles on choosing the right boat. www.sailnet.com As they say every boat is a compromise. You don't want a "cruising pig" that needs 20 K winds to move it but you may not need a "J" either.
I would suggest you go to the attached Web site and read the articles on choosing the right boat. www.sailnet.com As they say every boat is a compromise. You don't want a "cruising pig" that needs 20 K winds to move it but you may not need a "J" either.
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David Foster
Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau, Juneau, Tartan
Buy used, since there _is_ a rapid loss in value (20 percent?) of sailboats as they go from new to used. I think the volume producers have delivered the highest value for money for a long time. So the first three names are easy to start with. The older Juneaus have great cabin room for their time. Tartans belong in the higher quality, higher price group, but used availability is good on the Great Lakes. If you don't mind managing, or doing a few projects, classic plastic will give you the highest value. We bought our '77 h27 for $9,000 and have about $7,000 in sails, fixes and upgrades. For $16,000 we have a great, sound boat that is exactly what we want! I know you said 40 feet, but I would look at a Hunter 37c for a real class act. The best advice is go see them. Lie down in the bunks. Sit in the cabin. Sail them. Pick the one you like, and get a really good surveyor to check it out as part of the sales contract. David Lady Lillie
Buy used, since there _is_ a rapid loss in value (20 percent?) of sailboats as they go from new to used. I think the volume producers have delivered the highest value for money for a long time. So the first three names are easy to start with. The older Juneaus have great cabin room for their time. Tartans belong in the higher quality, higher price group, but used availability is good on the Great Lakes. If you don't mind managing, or doing a few projects, classic plastic will give you the highest value. We bought our '77 h27 for $9,000 and have about $7,000 in sails, fixes and upgrades. For $16,000 we have a great, sound boat that is exactly what we want! I know you said 40 feet, but I would look at a Hunter 37c for a real class act. The best advice is go see them. Lie down in the bunks. Sit in the cabin. Sail them. Pick the one you like, and get a really good surveyor to check it out as part of the sales contract. David Lady Lillie
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Paul
What's
David Walter's list is a list of what I call "tweeners." Boats built with terrific workmanship and quality materials, superior to the mass-market manufacturers but not extravagantly overbuilt, like Swans, Oysters and Hinckleys. If I were to list my favorite boats, or the boats I thought were built the best, or the boats I wanted most to own, I'd probably start my list with Tartan and Island Packet, too But value, that's different. What if you're going to sail only on Lake Champlain? Do you need the seagoing qualities of a Tartan to sail on a lake? Where's the value in that? I guess I think that the best value--as I define it--is in the lower cost boats. Look at the charter companies. All of their boats are Beneteaus, Jenneaus, Hunters and the like. They sail every day. These boats get more sailing days in five years than the average Hinckley gets in twenty-five, I'll bet. Annapolis Sailing School, where I learned to sail, has been using the same old O'Days for the past 25 years, and they sail them nearly every single day. Others feel differently. They believe that the large builders cut corners and pinch pennies in silly ways, because they know the boats will be sailed in more benign grounds. So, to answer your question you'll have to define "value" for yourself. If there was a pat answer to your question, there'd only be five builders left in business.
David Walter's list is a list of what I call "tweeners." Boats built with terrific workmanship and quality materials, superior to the mass-market manufacturers but not extravagantly overbuilt, like Swans, Oysters and Hinckleys. If I were to list my favorite boats, or the boats I thought were built the best, or the boats I wanted most to own, I'd probably start my list with Tartan and Island Packet, too But value, that's different. What if you're going to sail only on Lake Champlain? Do you need the seagoing qualities of a Tartan to sail on a lake? Where's the value in that? I guess I think that the best value--as I define it--is in the lower cost boats. Look at the charter companies. All of their boats are Beneteaus, Jenneaus, Hunters and the like. They sail every day. These boats get more sailing days in five years than the average Hinckley gets in twenty-five, I'll bet. Annapolis Sailing School, where I learned to sail, has been using the same old O'Days for the past 25 years, and they sail them nearly every single day. Others feel differently. They believe that the large builders cut corners and pinch pennies in silly ways, because they know the boats will be sailed in more benign grounds. So, to answer your question you'll have to define "value" for yourself. If there was a pat answer to your question, there'd only be five builders left in business.
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John
Davids List
David; I very much appreciate your response and your selections are ones that I have been zeroing in on. Several years ago we chartered a Hunter in the BVI's and I thought it was a very well built boat.I only recently came across the Catalina name and I very much like the later model 42's with the two cabin setup. I was concerned as I never heard of a Catalina although I was very familiar with all the others you listed.John
David; I very much appreciate your response and your selections are ones that I have been zeroing in on. Several years ago we chartered a Hunter in the BVI's and I thought it was a very well built boat.I only recently came across the Catalina name and I very much like the later model 42's with the two cabin setup. I was concerned as I never heard of a Catalina although I was very familiar with all the others you listed.John
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John Dawson
Almost agree with Paul
Sailing schools will use boats as long as they will float, and charter boats are affordably posh for the planned 5 years or so. Neither one uses the kind of solid cruisers Paul mentions. I think you can get more of a consensus when its clearer what your basis of 'value' is, i.e. what you really want and need. Why not go to the Annapolis or Miami boat show and get awed by all the new plastic? And then look at the used market and the proven names and ask alot of questions? You will get very confused for awhile, but you need a crash course, not just various opinions.
Sailing schools will use boats as long as they will float, and charter boats are affordably posh for the planned 5 years or so. Neither one uses the kind of solid cruisers Paul mentions. I think you can get more of a consensus when its clearer what your basis of 'value' is, i.e. what you really want and need. Why not go to the Annapolis or Miami boat show and get awed by all the new plastic? And then look at the used market and the proven names and ask alot of questions? You will get very confused for awhile, but you need a crash course, not just various opinions.
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Michael O'
Ford, Chevy vs Volvo, BMW
This is always risky, I know.... a bit like speaking ill of a southerner's dog. But opinions being what they are, it may not be avoidable? If you think a Hunter is a "very well built boat" and only just now found a Catalina, I suggest you look at sailboats until you know 'em like you know your powerboat. Hunters and Catalina's are nice boats, basically the Fords and Chevy's of the boating market. Generally I wouldn't take them on a passage. Coastal maybe. So it's 40+ feet and two retiree's handling the rigging? (New or used? Budget?) Since we'll be in that boat (pun intended) in about 6-8 years also, I'll give you our list. Caliber LRC, Sabre, Bavaria, Pacific Seacraft, Tartan. New or close to it, though. Best is a cutter or cutter-ketch rig for minimal crew. But you can outfit you boat with a lot of high-tech for sail handling and trimming. Best of luck to you! And apologies (sincerely) to anyone who's toes I stepped on. Michael O'
This is always risky, I know.... a bit like speaking ill of a southerner's dog. But opinions being what they are, it may not be avoidable? If you think a Hunter is a "very well built boat" and only just now found a Catalina, I suggest you look at sailboats until you know 'em like you know your powerboat. Hunters and Catalina's are nice boats, basically the Fords and Chevy's of the boating market. Generally I wouldn't take them on a passage. Coastal maybe. So it's 40+ feet and two retiree's handling the rigging? (New or used? Budget?) Since we'll be in that boat (pun intended) in about 6-8 years also, I'll give you our list. Caliber LRC, Sabre, Bavaria, Pacific Seacraft, Tartan. New or close to it, though. Best is a cutter or cutter-ketch rig for minimal crew. But you can outfit you boat with a lot of high-tech for sail handling and trimming. Best of luck to you! And apologies (sincerely) to anyone who's toes I stepped on. Michael O'
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Tom S.
Like its been mentioned before, you have to define
your cruising grounds a little better and just what you mean by taking a passage. There is a big difference from taking a "passage" through the carribean and one going around Cape Horn. Any of the manufacturers that have been listed would be fine for what I am "guessing" you are looking to use it for. Some coastal crusing down around Fl, with occasional hops to the islands and possibly further south. Look for a more late model boat as most of those have all or most of the lines fed back to the cockpit, this is important as since there will only be two of you, this will make sailing easier than having one person to have to go on deck all the time for sail handling. As was mentioned before I am a bit amazed at your comment that you have never heard of Catalina before. This company has been making sailboats for a good long while, I beleive they are the #1 or #2 sailboat manufacturer in the country. You picked a classic when you looked at the Catalina 42, it is a proven sailboat thats been around for years and I know many people that have sailed oceans on it. Just as an example take at look at a lot of sailing magazines lately, Catalina has an ad called "Offshore Cruisers Hall of fame" listing just a few of the owners that are cruising around the world. One of the most consistent boats on the list is the C42, as an FYI take a look the Lats and Att's magazine Oct '03/pg 16, or Sep/03 pg 12, etc......In fact I personally know someone that entered the Carib 1500 offshore race last November. They entered in a C42 and took 3rd or 4th overall, there was some very heavy weather, with sustained winds above 40 knots and the boat handled it fine. The same could not be said for some "named" high end cruising boats that had major failures on board that caused the boats to have to get out of the race and find a safe haven. The whole point is most of these boats will be fine, what you really need to do is first learn about sailing more to figure out what kinds of features/setup you like better on your boat. Even though most of these boats are very similar, there are fine nuances that might make one person lean towards one or the other. I suggest 3 things. 1) Take a sailing course, whether its a small boat class or a cruising class that takes you out a few days, you should at least take something. This will help you "hone" what features you do and don't like. 2) Get a good low-key broker. Explain what you are looking for. If you think he is pushing one type or style of boat over another and you are not comfortable with that, then find another broker. 3) If at all possible, charter the boat before you buy. This will allow you to decide what you do and don't like with the boat, whether its the cabin layout, or the galley fridge or maybe that the head is uncomfortable. Nothing worse than buying the boat and then finding a few feautures that you don't want to live with. And always, when buying a boat get a good accredited surveyor to look it over thoroughly and if all passes you'll be fine.
your cruising grounds a little better and just what you mean by taking a passage. There is a big difference from taking a "passage" through the carribean and one going around Cape Horn. Any of the manufacturers that have been listed would be fine for what I am "guessing" you are looking to use it for. Some coastal crusing down around Fl, with occasional hops to the islands and possibly further south. Look for a more late model boat as most of those have all or most of the lines fed back to the cockpit, this is important as since there will only be two of you, this will make sailing easier than having one person to have to go on deck all the time for sail handling. As was mentioned before I am a bit amazed at your comment that you have never heard of Catalina before. This company has been making sailboats for a good long while, I beleive they are the #1 or #2 sailboat manufacturer in the country. You picked a classic when you looked at the Catalina 42, it is a proven sailboat thats been around for years and I know many people that have sailed oceans on it. Just as an example take at look at a lot of sailing magazines lately, Catalina has an ad called "Offshore Cruisers Hall of fame" listing just a few of the owners that are cruising around the world. One of the most consistent boats on the list is the C42, as an FYI take a look the Lats and Att's magazine Oct '03/pg 16, or Sep/03 pg 12, etc......In fact I personally know someone that entered the Carib 1500 offshore race last November. They entered in a C42 and took 3rd or 4th overall, there was some very heavy weather, with sustained winds above 40 knots and the boat handled it fine. The same could not be said for some "named" high end cruising boats that had major failures on board that caused the boats to have to get out of the race and find a safe haven. The whole point is most of these boats will be fine, what you really need to do is first learn about sailing more to figure out what kinds of features/setup you like better on your boat. Even though most of these boats are very similar, there are fine nuances that might make one person lean towards one or the other. I suggest 3 things. 1) Take a sailing course, whether its a small boat class or a cruising class that takes you out a few days, you should at least take something. This will help you "hone" what features you do and don't like. 2) Get a good low-key broker. Explain what you are looking for. If you think he is pushing one type or style of boat over another and you are not comfortable with that, then find another broker. 3) If at all possible, charter the boat before you buy. This will allow you to decide what you do and don't like with the boat, whether its the cabin layout, or the galley fridge or maybe that the head is uncomfortable. Nothing worse than buying the boat and then finding a few feautures that you don't want to live with. And always, when buying a boat get a good accredited surveyor to look it over thoroughly and if all passes you'll be fine.
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dan
agreed
if you are "just" running across the Catalina name in sailing, you got alot of looking around to do!
if you are "just" running across the Catalina name in sailing, you got alot of looking around to do!
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Ray Bowles
We just did what you asked.
john, Davids list covers a wide range of boats and prices. After having looked for a year for a cruising boat we chose a Island Packet for the same reasons you covered in your question. The price was slightly higher than the other boats on list but its quality, strength and room were worth the price. Also the standard gear on the boat would have added considerably to the price of a lesser boat to be equiped the same way. We currently have our boat at Indiantown and will be back in November. If you like you can contact us at "bigadventure@aol.com". We'd be glad to help you by explaining the criteria we used in our search which was done in your area. good luck and enjoy. Ray & Maria S/V Scooter 90 IP38
john, Davids list covers a wide range of boats and prices. After having looked for a year for a cruising boat we chose a Island Packet for the same reasons you covered in your question. The price was slightly higher than the other boats on list but its quality, strength and room were worth the price. Also the standard gear on the boat would have added considerably to the price of a lesser boat to be equiped the same way. We currently have our boat at Indiantown and will be back in November. If you like you can contact us at "bigadventure@aol.com". We'd be glad to help you by explaining the criteria we used in our search which was done in your area. good luck and enjoy. Ray & Maria S/V Scooter 90 IP38
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dan
Ray, slightly higher????
as a proud C30 owner I can honestly say I do believe an Island Packet to be a better quality boat. that said, I dont believe their 30 to have any more room than the Catalina and would surely agrue that a IP is only "slightly higher" in price. I love the IP and wish I could afford one but, when I was looking they seems to run almost twice the price of a Catalina. a better boat yes, twice as good, hum dont think so. of course, there again what is the intended use.
as a proud C30 owner I can honestly say I do believe an Island Packet to be a better quality boat. that said, I dont believe their 30 to have any more room than the Catalina and would surely agrue that a IP is only "slightly higher" in price. I love the IP and wish I could afford one but, when I was looking they seems to run almost twice the price of a Catalina. a better boat yes, twice as good, hum dont think so. of course, there again what is the intended use.
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J.Hrab
Island Packet recommendation
I agree completely with the Island Packet recommendation. I happen to visit an IP 38 which is fully equipped: AC/TV/SSB, generator,etc...+etc... in excellent condition, I would recommend it very highly: the owner is Ron Graft: (219) 633 4397 rcgraft@media.com Good Luck
I agree completely with the Island Packet recommendation. I happen to visit an IP 38 which is fully equipped: AC/TV/SSB, generator,etc...+etc... in excellent condition, I would recommend it very highly: the owner is Ron Graft: (219) 633 4397 rcgraft@media.com Good Luck
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Darrel
Island Packets
No doubt about it. Island Packets are a gorgious, well built, well equipt boat. But they are short on sail plans to move the boat. They are flat out slow. Very comfortable, safe and slow. There are many choices out there for those looking for boats. In fact, there are probably more boats looking for a new owner than there is buyers looking for boats. Look around, be selective, get what you will be happy with. I have a Tartan 33 and have found it to be a cut above Hunters and Catalina's and a cut below the Island Packet. It is well built, nicely appointed, very sea kindly and at what I paid and satisfactory fit. And it out performs the I.P. Check them all out before you fall in love with the first boat you see.
No doubt about it. Island Packets are a gorgious, well built, well equipt boat. But they are short on sail plans to move the boat. They are flat out slow. Very comfortable, safe and slow. There are many choices out there for those looking for boats. In fact, there are probably more boats looking for a new owner than there is buyers looking for boats. Look around, be selective, get what you will be happy with. I have a Tartan 33 and have found it to be a cut above Hunters and Catalina's and a cut below the Island Packet. It is well built, nicely appointed, very sea kindly and at what I paid and satisfactory fit. And it out performs the I.P. Check them all out before you fall in love with the first boat you see.
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Tom S
Island Packets are nice, but expect to be motor
sailing (or just plain motoring) a lot the time, unless you are consistently in trade winds. Coming from a motorboat background that might not bother you, but the IP's I see on the western LI Sound rarely -don't- have their engines on and are not a very good performing sailboats in anything but heavier winds.....even with thier new keel foil shape. If I was always consistently going to be in rough seas and heavy winds, I'd bet I'd want the IP & would be more comfortable. And if I really think I'd be exploring lots of uncharted areas with a good chance of running aground often then the IP's have a distinct advantage of have a full keel and protected rudder. But if you are going to be docking these boats often in tides, cross winds and tight slips, then good luck. Because they are not nearly as managable as these other boats with more of a fin keel. Though the IP's have the advantage of typically having not too deep of a keel, which can be an advantage in the "skinny" waters of Florida . If I was down there I think I would require a shoal keel. Most manufacturers have wing keels that keep the draft low. The C42 has a surprisingly shallow wing keel of 4'11" which is really something for a 42' fin keel's boat. All boats are a compromise, it all depneds on what you are thinking of doing. Yes IP's are very well made boats, but I can honestly say that even if I had the money to buy a brand new IP I wouldn't for the sailing I do. I just wouldn't be happy with its sailing characteristics where I sail and the type of sailing I do. I would want a much better preforming boat. I think you should buy a copy of Nigel Calders Cruising Handbook called "Compendium for Coastal and Offshore Sailors". (I linked it to amzon below) He has a wealth of information on this exact design criteria you are going through and he is fair and tries to be unbiased in his approach explaining what features might be important to differnt sailors depending on your goals and desires, etc. I sat through part of his seminar at the NY/NJ boat show last saturday and he is very good
sailing (or just plain motoring) a lot the time, unless you are consistently in trade winds. Coming from a motorboat background that might not bother you, but the IP's I see on the western LI Sound rarely -don't- have their engines on and are not a very good performing sailboats in anything but heavier winds.....even with thier new keel foil shape. If I was always consistently going to be in rough seas and heavy winds, I'd bet I'd want the IP & would be more comfortable. And if I really think I'd be exploring lots of uncharted areas with a good chance of running aground often then the IP's have a distinct advantage of have a full keel and protected rudder. But if you are going to be docking these boats often in tides, cross winds and tight slips, then good luck. Because they are not nearly as managable as these other boats with more of a fin keel. Though the IP's have the advantage of typically having not too deep of a keel, which can be an advantage in the "skinny" waters of Florida . If I was down there I think I would require a shoal keel. Most manufacturers have wing keels that keep the draft low. The C42 has a surprisingly shallow wing keel of 4'11" which is really something for a 42' fin keel's boat. All boats are a compromise, it all depneds on what you are thinking of doing. Yes IP's are very well made boats, but I can honestly say that even if I had the money to buy a brand new IP I wouldn't for the sailing I do. I just wouldn't be happy with its sailing characteristics where I sail and the type of sailing I do. I would want a much better preforming boat. I think you should buy a copy of Nigel Calders Cruising Handbook called "Compendium for Coastal and Offshore Sailors". (I linked it to amzon below) He has a wealth of information on this exact design criteria you are going through and he is fair and tries to be unbiased in his approach explaining what features might be important to differnt sailors depending on your goals and desires, etc. I sat through part of his seminar at the NY/NJ boat show last saturday and he is very good
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Ray Bowles
5 to 6.5 k ave. is to be expected in IP38.
We have found that we can AVERAGE 5 to 6.5 knots in wind speeds to 12 to 15 knots. We're also still out there in winds 20 to 35 knots when it's not possible to duck in back at the marina. Our cruising spinacker is also an important item with this heavier boat. Loaded we figure she weighs about 27,000lbs. Granted she won't point anywhere as tight as a Hunter or other performance boat but she'll do an honest 47 degrees very nicely. In a full year of sailing we have used less than 1 tank of fuel and that's 50 gallons. We have sailed from Alabama to Jacksonville Fla and done the Keys. Motoring is for Mac 26x's. Cruising makes the heavier boats very nice and comfort is very important when she's your only home. Would I buy another? Only if I found one as nice as this and at a very distressed price. Blind pigs need a lot of luck to find the acorns and I scrapped my head rather badly before finding this boat. It was worth every "ouch". As my wife said, "We gave up a very nice home to do this so she better be a boat we truly love!" I was looking at the resale price when we're done as that represents my next shop! Fair winds my friends. Ray & Maria.
We have found that we can AVERAGE 5 to 6.5 knots in wind speeds to 12 to 15 knots. We're also still out there in winds 20 to 35 knots when it's not possible to duck in back at the marina. Our cruising spinacker is also an important item with this heavier boat. Loaded we figure she weighs about 27,000lbs. Granted she won't point anywhere as tight as a Hunter or other performance boat but she'll do an honest 47 degrees very nicely. In a full year of sailing we have used less than 1 tank of fuel and that's 50 gallons. We have sailed from Alabama to Jacksonville Fla and done the Keys. Motoring is for Mac 26x's. Cruising makes the heavier boats very nice and comfort is very important when she's your only home. Would I buy another? Only if I found one as nice as this and at a very distressed price. Blind pigs need a lot of luck to find the acorns and I scrapped my head rather badly before finding this boat. It was worth every "ouch". As my wife said, "We gave up a very nice home to do this so she better be a boat we truly love!" I was looking at the resale price when we're done as that represents my next shop! Fair winds my friends. Ray & Maria.
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tom
5 to 6.5 kts sounds pretty slow for 12-15kts of
wind!!! On the gulf coast there are many days that you can't get that much wind. we were sailing this past weekend and a J-30 flew by us. I kept looking and hoping that they were running their motor but couldn't see any smoke. The wind was 15-20 and we had a reef in the main and partly rolled up genny on our Pearson 323. We were hitting 6.5 knots by speedo and GPS. The J-30 was carrying all it's sails from what I could tell. Coming from a Macgregor 26 the P-323 is a heavy boat. I know the Mac would be very hard to control in those conditions but would be very exciting. Of course the mac isn't comparabled to the J-30 except that they both are lighter boats. OTOH the Island Packets look so good!!!!! The bottom line is how are you going to use the boat. If mostly bay sailing a lighter faster boat will be more fun. But offshore a heavier slower boat might fit the bill. Also a simpler boat that you can get under way in a few minutes means that you will sail more often. I was surprised that we can get underway in the P323 as quickly as we could in the Mac. The IP's with in the mast roller furling and roller fore sails looks very easy to use. I'd buy one for cruising but they are out of my price range. But for sailing I'd buy a J boat!!!!! J's are so fast!!!!!!!!!!!
wind!!! On the gulf coast there are many days that you can't get that much wind. we were sailing this past weekend and a J-30 flew by us. I kept looking and hoping that they were running their motor but couldn't see any smoke. The wind was 15-20 and we had a reef in the main and partly rolled up genny on our Pearson 323. We were hitting 6.5 knots by speedo and GPS. The J-30 was carrying all it's sails from what I could tell. Coming from a Macgregor 26 the P-323 is a heavy boat. I know the Mac would be very hard to control in those conditions but would be very exciting. Of course the mac isn't comparabled to the J-30 except that they both are lighter boats. OTOH the Island Packets look so good!!!!! The bottom line is how are you going to use the boat. If mostly bay sailing a lighter faster boat will be more fun. But offshore a heavier slower boat might fit the bill. Also a simpler boat that you can get under way in a few minutes means that you will sail more often. I was surprised that we can get underway in the P323 as quickly as we could in the Mac. The IP's with in the mast roller furling and roller fore sails looks very easy to use. I'd buy one for cruising but they are out of my price range. But for sailing I'd buy a J boat!!!!! J's are so fast!!!!!!!!!!!
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David Walters
And this is why the Tartans and Sabres listed
Pearsons too and the older J boats certainly fit this 'value'. Fast is fun and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Slow can be comforting and easily mistaken for seaworthness, but if your just out for a daysail, you want to be moving! Yep, you'll pay a little more for these than the Beneteaus, Jeaneaus, Catalinas and Hunters, but in that size range (40 -45 ft right?), you'll want a brand that has held it's price well and who's systems have stood the test of time. The major production boats do have some model that are fast (the hunter 45 comes to mind - phrf of 55? smokin!) but unless this boat has been really overhauled, you'll find yourself spending money on upgrades the others already have.
Pearsons too and the older J boats certainly fit this 'value'. Fast is fun and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Slow can be comforting and easily mistaken for seaworthness, but if your just out for a daysail, you want to be moving! Yep, you'll pay a little more for these than the Beneteaus, Jeaneaus, Catalinas and Hunters, but in that size range (40 -45 ft right?), you'll want a brand that has held it's price well and who's systems have stood the test of time. The major production boats do have some model that are fast (the hunter 45 comes to mind - phrf of 55? smokin!) but unless this boat has been really overhauled, you'll find yourself spending money on upgrades the others already have.
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