The Bounty, USCG Final Report

Jan 6, 2010
1,520
Well,

The final USCG report is in. The causes for the sinking were first, the vessel's non-seaworthiness, followed closely by an arrogant skipper, added to this an owner's greed & culminating in the loss of life, and a storied square rigger. This should have had never happened but for the reasons stated the loss of life.

There was an earlier thread on the Bounty sinking that asked how such a tragedy could have happened. Skippered be a well seasoned captain Walbridge & the final result.

I had posted some of my thoughts in this thread on his incompetence & remembered that I to took some for my opinions. I remember subsequent replies, alot defending the captain as he had all this seagoing knowledge & responders not wanting to paint him in a lesser light.

I stood by my guns thru this, as I KNEW he had doomed the Bounty & Claudene Christian as a result of his arrogance & death causing stupidity. For this, I now feel exonerated in my beliefs.

The CBS news site posted this in reference to the USCG findings. And remember, not all captains are created equal, licensed or not. Keep in mind, the impedance for this death-defying voyage was for a two day dock reservation stint in St. Pete. Florida for ship tours:

CBS6:

The Coast Guard investigation asked life-and-death questions about proper ship maintenance, the crew’s experience and the captain’s decision to sail from Connecticut to Florida as Sandy ran up the East Coast.

The report said the “most critical” cause of the sinking was the “failure of the Bounty’s management and [captain] to exercise effective oversight and risk management in the overall operation of the Bounty and specifically with undertaking its final voyage in the face of an impending hurricane.”

The “leading cause that contributed to the loss” of Walbridge and to Christian’s death was the captain’s “decision to order the crew to abandon the ship much too late,” the report said.

The decision to abandon ship so late after hurricane conditions worsened and the “fact that the crew had not drilled in months,” led the report to determine that the captain’s “actions/and or inactions in this regard constitutes negligence.”

The report also said the ships’ owner HMS Bounty Organization LLC, “committed acts of negligence that contributed to” Christian’s death and the presumed death of Walbridge.

Fatigue played a contributing factor in the disaster, the report said. The “crew was suffering from fatigue which was born out of lack of sleep, being sea sick, and from the physical exertion of fighting to save the vessel while in extreme weather conditions for over 24 hours.”

The report also states that the Bounty operated as a recreational vessel under “less stringent safety standards” and recommended that the Coast Guard “examine if legislative, regulatory or policy changes are needed.”

Attached is the USCG Final Report findings, What say you?

CR
 

Attachments

Sep 30, 2013
3,686
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
"Get there-itis" ... the disease of being in too big a hurry to get where you're going. :)
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,319
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Get there-itis.... hope I never contract that disease, heh, heh..... good one.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,936
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Get-there-Itis

Two summers ago... I was cruising on a three day weekend and had my kids at Ocracoke for the weekend.

The plan was to leave at 5:30 Sunday morning so I could sail across the sound and then make the 5 hour drive home in time for the kids to get to bed (school the next day).

But we were FOGGED in. I felt I could navigate the channel (I had a swing keel anyway) and so I made ready to leave... a dock hand came up to my boat and advised me not to do it.

He was a young guy (mid 20's) and he said to me... "I've only seen two boat accidents in my entire life and both were the result of a deadline"

Makes you wonder why the word "dead" is in that phrase?:confused:

I guess that is a variant of getthereitis.

In two weeks I'm heading back to those same waters. The plan is a 7 day cruise but I put 10 days on the calendar so I don't have to stick to a deadline. If weather gets rough, I can wait it out.
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
As a former dealer, I ran into a lot of issues. Most understood when explained to them but there were others who were not rational. I had two customers who demanded that their boats be delivered to their docks so they could work on it during the commissioning phase. Both threatened to back out of the deal. The first boat was set into the water, mast up, engine aligned and off we went. After two days, I had to rest due to a grueling night run which he was no help. When going up on deck, the weather was turning worse but he demanded we proceed. I calculated rough seas but passable advising against going the last 35 miles. I felt safely it was a go but was fearful he would be sick. He chummed all the way and was green to the gills coming in. I did not see him for over two weeks and it was a pleasure to finally commission his boat without being annoyed. He apologized for being stupid realizing safety is a must.

As for the second boat, I refused to launch in advance of a hurricane coming. I lost that sale but that was a decision I made out of safety for all. That fellow bought a boat elsewhere. He bought a boat elsewhere but is at the bottom or dead.

There was one other time. It was on a trailerable boat that the prospective buyer came to go on a demo ride with his wife. It was cold and started to rain with the winds picking up. I told him to let the main out to spill the wind but did not scarring the dickens out of his wife. I took the tiller out of his hands and dropped sails. When back at the marina, he demanded another demo but weather had worsened and I said no. I looked at his wife with tremendous fear in her eyes. I looked at him and I said no and then said he had scared his wife too much and she had every right to divorce his rear end. I advised there would be no sale to him and he better go home and get counseling for the two of them. I walked away. Years later, I met that couple again at a show with his wife and children. He thanked me for saving his marriage. He bought a boat and asked if we would teach the two of them which was part of the package anyway. When she was at the helm, he never said a word and let the instructor teach his wife. We became friends.

It is sad there are those who do not consider the safety of others and the Bounty Capt. is one and sadly he is gone and I knew him too.
 
Jan 6, 2010
1,520
Crazy,

Great post man. It's all about safety vs. danger vs. novice vs. ignorance.

I have seen many times, that a couple would go out on someone's boat with a capable skipper & enjoy a perfect day's sail. This perfect day's sail sneaks into his brain & he thinks I can do this if I he just buys his own boat. That's when the fever hits & the guy goes out & buys his own boat. However, if not done with patience, training & instruction, it usually ends up two ways.

#1. If he scares or makes his girl sick or uncomfortable, it usually ends up with her not wanting to go anymore. Thus, he killed her enthusiasm.

#2. The boating problems/differences can get ugly & many times leads to divorce. There were probably other issues tearing the union apart, but it seems the boat becomes the last straw that broke the camel's back.

Your post just backed up what I offer here.

CR
 
Jul 28, 2010
914
Boston Whaler Montauk New Orleans
Crazy Dave, something you said (about the hubby being quiet while you teach) made me think. Unless it's something really simple, I refuse to teach my wife anything. This frustrate's her, but she understands. When I try to teach her something, I get impatient, she gets frustrated and angry, and it never ends well. When I teach others something, for some reason I seem to have oodles more patience.
 
Jan 6, 2010
1,520
Wink,

I have seen problems with wives & girlfriends when trying to teach them all the nuances of sailing & boat handling many times. With both my girlfriends & friend's wives, what you said is true.

It took me a while, but I finally found why this causes problems between the genders.
Women process info differently than men do. The main reason I believe has to do with society's design & a woman's mindset instilled from birth that forms their adult thinking & feelings with regards to men.

Put yourself in a woman's mindset. They've grown up under the view of being less than equal to males. Now, relate this to trying to teach your woman sail & boating techniques. If not presented in the right way, women may view this as condescending, may feel undue pressure from their male counterpart, as they will do it wrong before they do it right. Here is when your critique of her shows & she now feels even more pressure & hurt feelings. She then looses her enjoyment of the moment & now there is an impasse. I'll bet when that happens, there's no happy time later that the night for you.

Here is where the "vinegar" is added to the mix & the taste becomes sour to her. I have friends over the years tell me the same things looking for answers. However, thru trial & error in trying to teach my female friends, after a time, I feel I finally hit on the "how-to-make-it-work" fix. It's been working for every female friend since. We men forget what it took for us to get things right. How much time did that take?

All people not counting gender, need to feel they are an equal part of the team, in as much, here is where the "feel-good" sense comes into play. Take away this feeling & you may be viewed as controlling, aloof and/or condescending. Realizing this, I came up with a different approach.

Dog training used to be of the K9 approach. It was very strict & not much fun for the dog. Since then, new training techniques sprouted up that made it fun for the owner, and fun for dog, with candy-like treats as a reward for their efforts. This was the training my Irish Setter had, it was great & she was a happy, nutty dog.

So, let's use the training technique for your woman. Anything, sail trim, steering, you name it. The secret is not to lay too much on her & critique what she is doing minute x minute, step x step while constantly correcting her. Women possess patience that men will never know & realizing this, you need to be patient in allowing her the time to process what you are trying to teach. Do not apply any pressure or condescending tone and give her the time to perfect the task, And, above all, allow her the flexibility of practice to get it right. Keep it enjoyable for her making sure you reward her efforts and, & make her feel as an equal team partner, therein lies the candy.

No, I'm not Dr. Phil, but I do know this. I will bet anyone that I can take a female novice & can teach this woman to steer a boat better then most males in just fifteen minutes. Tried & proven, women steer a boat better than men. Why you may ask? Water is liquid, it doesn't travel at the speed of men. Also, as a boat always reacts to wind & wave, the lag time fits well with a women's patience. So, you may ask what are my ulterior motives? That's simple, I find a woman that feels as an equal & relaxed onboard, I stand a better chance she may get naked. Hence my motto, "What happens at sea, stays at sea". This is important to me as I remain a "Player" & there is alot of nudity on my boat.

CR
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Wink,

I have seen problems with wives & girlfriends when trying to teach them all the nuances of sailing & boat handling many times. With both my girlfriends & friend's wives, what you said is true.

It took me a while, but I finally found why this causes problems between the genders.
Women process info differently than men do. The main reason I believe has to do with society's design & a woman's mindset instilled from birth that forms their adult thinking & feelings with regards to men.

Put yourself in a woman's mindset. They've grown up under the view of being less than equal to males. Now, relate this to trying to teach your woman sail & boating techniques. If not presented in the right way, women may view this as condescending, may feel undue pressure from their male counterpart, as they will do it wrong before they do it right. Here is when your critique of her shows & she now feels even more pressure & hurt feelings. She then looses her enjoyment of the moment & now there is an impasse. I'll bet when that happens, there's no happy time later that the night for you.

Here is where the "vinegar" is added to the mix & the taste becomes sour to her. I have friends over the years tell me the same things looking for answers. However, thru trial & error in trying to teach my female friends, after a time, I feel I finally hit on the "how-to-make-it-work" fix. It's been working for every female friend since. We men forget what it took for us to get things right. How much time did that take?

All people not counting gender, need to feel they are an equal part of the team, in as much, here is where the "feel-good" sense comes into play. Take away this feeling & you may be viewed as controlling, aloof and/or condescending. Realizing this, I came up with a different approach.

Dog training used to be of the K9 approach. It was very strict & not much fun for the dog. Since then, new training techniques sprouted up that made it fun for the owner, and fun for dog, with candy-like treats as a reward for their efforts. This was the training my Irish Setter had, it was great & she was a happy, nutty dog.

So, let's use the training technique for your woman. Anything, sail trim, steering, you name it. The secret is not to lay too much on her & critique what she is doing minute x minute, step x step while constantly correcting her. Women possess patience that men will never know & realizing this, you need to be patient in allowing her the time to process what you are trying to teach. Do not apply any pressure or condescending tone and give her the time to perfect the task, And, above all, allow her the flexibility of practice to get it right. Keep it enjoyable for her making sure you reward her efforts and, & make her feel as an equal team partner, therein lies the candy.

No, I'm not Dr. Phil, but I do know this. I will bet anyone that I can take a female novice & can teach this woman to steer a boat better then most males in just fifteen minutes. Tried & proven, women steer a boat better than men. Why you may ask? Water is liquid, it doesn't travel at the speed of men. Also, as a boat always reacts to wind & wave, the lag time fits well with a women's patience. So, you may ask what are my ulterior motives? That's simple, I find a woman that feels as an equal & relaxed onboard, I stand a better chance she may get naked. Hence my motto, "What happens at sea, stays at sea". This is important to me as I remain a "Player" & there is alot of nudity on my boat.

CR
I just gotta do this Ron:stirthepot: .....Thats exactly what Freud said right before his wife shot him:eek:
 
Jan 6, 2010
1,520
Wood,

Too funny man, but did it really happen? And, if so I would not blame Mrs. Freud, as history proved he was in love with his mother.

The fact you replied, tells me you're on to this way of thinking. But I assure you, I'm on to something here.

I once saw a bumper sticker that read,
"Men, whatever you do, never EVER arm your wife"!

CR
 
Jul 28, 2010
914
Boston Whaler Montauk New Orleans
CaptRon, the fallacy of your argument, and the trap you've gotten into, is you think you understand women. May have worked for a time, but it's just a nuclear bomb waiting to go off. Good luck. It was nice knowin' ya!! ;)

By the way, I tried using doggy treats, as you advised,to reward my wife. Disastrous consequences, my friend. Disastrous.:D
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Wood,

Too funny man, but did it really happen? And, if so I would not blame Mrs. Freud, as history proved he was in love with his mother.

The fact you replied, tells me you're on to this way of thinking. But I assure you, I'm on to something here.

I once saw a bumper sticker that read,
"Men, whatever you do, never EVER arm your wife"!

CR

good one Ron lol
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Over the years, I learned the best is not to teach the better half anything and sent her to sailing school. Best choice I ever made. I recall taking three boats the largest being a 44 down to Oriental, NC, the driver of the 27 had medical issues and I transferred the command of the boat or the 44 to her along with the two dogs. She put that boat into the slip better than I could. Like I said, I let others teach her. By the way, I am sending my better half to school on how to shoot. I could teach her but like one said, I may not have the patience like I have with others. That is why when I sold boats, I had instructors for systems and the other for sailing usually a week long which was part of the packaging.