Surge Brakes and Tongue Extensions

dscribner · Mar 2, 2011

Rjenk3,

My understanding is that the coupler should in no way be mounted to a tounge extension. There should be a coupler to tow with that is thru bolted and a coupler on the extension. If you look up aftermarket extentions, that's what they will probably tell you. But, do you really need one? It must be your keel. My Lancer 25 launches fine without one. I draft 30".

dscribner · Mar 2, 2011

Rjenk3,

Let me add this. I added a complete set of brakes to my duallie 2 years ago. The complete kit cost $351. It included drums, free backing plates, coupler, lines, hubs, bearings, whatever. If I had my druthers, I'd have gone with disks, not drums. A little more expensive but easier to maintain I think. At very least, easier to inspect.

watercolors II · Mar 2, 2011

3 ways to go!

1. Replace the disconnect so it works, the cheapest.

2. Replace the disconnect with a long rubber hose to meet the length of the present extension that way no disconnect, just tie up the hose when not extended, next in cost.

3 Build a whole new extension similar to “dscribner’s” pictured above, the most expensive

Bob 04 H260 · Mar 6, 2011

My Hunter 260 was supplied on a Magic tilt trailer with a 7 ft telescopic tongue extension. The brake line for the surge brake is a rubber coated s/s braided hose that is passed down the inside of the tongue. The hose is long enough nothing needs to disconnected to extend the tongue.

Bob

SamLust · Mar 8, 2011

There's no way you should be popping a guick connect fitting on a hydraulic brake system. Air WILL get in and effectively make the system non-functional. A properly set up flexible hose is the answer. If you can get a look at a Magic Tilt for a Hunte 260 it is the way it should be done. Second best is a long coil of brake line hose at the coupler that will extend. You just have to coil it up instead of it taking care of itself.

Rick Webb · Mar 8, 2011

Quick Connect is Not an Issue

The Air Force uses them on our munitions trailers and the are kinda picky about things working on those as you can imagine.

http://www.shopchampiontrailers.com/QUICK-DISCONNECT-KIT/productinfo/QD212/

polestar · Mar 8, 2011

I've used a quick disconnect on my trailer for years and never had a problem. YMMV

SamLust · Mar 23, 2011

I repeat: quick disconnects are a lousy idea on hydraulic brakes. Check out ANY car maker's owners manual. They outright forbid it. Air? no problem. Air bubbles in a air brake system are no problem. Air bubbles in a hydraulic brake system? Big trouble. You won't even know your system is compromised till the smoke and dust of the crash is settling. This is from the viewpoint of a mechanic. It is just too easy to set up a swinging flex line like what they use on the Magic tilt trailers.

CaptDon01 · Mar 23, 2011

The quick disconnect was rusted on my trailer and couldn't get it to work. So I simply removed the assembly and plugged the master cylinder and the lines. I would like to get it to work, and I've seen the brass quick disconnect fittings. I too was worried about the air issue, but they do make the disconnects, and I would think the manufactures would worry about the liability issues. My other concern was the vent on the master cylinder. My concern was water getting into the system when the assembly is under water at the ramp.

Don

SamLust · Mar 23, 2011

CaptDon, your surge master cylinder really should not be getting into the water. At least I've never had one go that far. If the master is in the water your differential might be in kind of deep also. You might want to check the breather on top of the differential when you are in that deep do be sure it remains above water. I assume you have to go in that deep because your boat is a wing keel and might need more water to get off the trailer.

watercolors II · Mar 24, 2011

Some answers.

Quick disconnects are used on lots of hydraulic equipment, they must work or they wouldn’t be used in the first place or even available in the market place.

It’s amazing how a trailer surge brake unit works. Mine has a slow leak that empties the reservoir when setting over the summer or winter. If I forget to fill it up before towing I can feel it right away. Stopping and filling it up without bleeding the lines the unit starts working fine after about 2 miles of towing, I’ve also heard this from other boat owners, amazing!

I can not imagine using anything on a boat trailer that can not be submerged in water, I’ve never seen a “Do Not Submerge” sticker anywhere on a boat trailer.

Differential breather is a sealed tube from the axle up to and attached to the undercarriage of the vehicle directly above the axle. Getting water into this breather and the differential one would have to back the vehicle into the water so deep that water would fill the bed of a truck to the wheel wells or the carpet under the rear seat of a SUV would be wet.

alexco38 · Mar 24, 2011

Why make it so complicated to extend the trailer tongue with the surge brake? Just get a separate trailer coupler and a steel extension tube. You don't worry about the brake when you launch or retrieve the boat. Only install the extension for slip work. Remove it for towing. Am I missing something?

I have seen them on some trailers for deep keel sailboat.

SamLust · Mar 24, 2011

Watercolors;

Quick connects are certainly used in hydraulic equipment like backhoes that can be removed from the tractor, and on tank engines so a mechanic in the field can pull a 12 cylinder diesel engine in 20 minutes. Those open systems self purge. They force the hydraulic fluid back and forth and the air bleeds out at the top of the tank. Even your cars power steering will do that on its own after a hose change. A hydraulic brake system is acompletely different animal. Once you get air into the line it is there till it is bled out. The fact that yous leaks a bit does not mean you have gotten air into the line. With air in the line you can get only get partial braking at best. The point is, it is so easy to do it right why continue to do it wrong?

Yes, the master is designed to put up with some wetness like rain but why push your luck? My Timex is waterproof but I've had enough watches succumb to water intrusion that I know better than to dunk it if I don't have to.

Alexco;

I have seen several sailboat trailers that carry a separate extension with a ball that hooks to the coupler. It almost can't fail and is certainly a simple, effective way to do it. I just prefer a trailer where I just pull the coupler forward to extend it and avoid the heavy lifting. Performance, Magic Tilt and Trail N Sail are examples that come to mind.

CaptDon01 · Mar 24, 2011

Would electric disc brakes be the ultimate answer to this issue? Just wondering.....

Don

SamLust · Mar 25, 2011

In my OPINION, having looked at and thought about it, electric brakes would be the ultimate answer except for the electric part. As soon as you dunk the brakes electro magnets into salt water, or fresh water to a lesser extent you start a corrosion problem that is not likely to go away. I have not come up with an idea to seal this area from water that I would consider reliable . Heat with vibration and the insidious nature of salt water. Therefore I can't see that it would be worth the time and money. Electro-magnetic brakes are simply not done on boat trailers.

On the other hand, the makers of the surge brake setups (Dico as I remember) also make an electricaly operated hydraulic master cylinder. I would think this could be mounted high on the winch post so it would not get dunked, but would still remain with and part of the trailer. A tongue extension would have no effect on it at all. I assume it would be operated by the same electric brake controller in the cab of your truck that would operate standard electro magnet brakes. While undoubtedly costly, I think this could be the ideal way to deal with this problem. I don't recall having seen this done. Who wants to be the first kid on the block to try it?

Fred Villiard · Mar 25, 2011

I've have a trailer for my Grady, that I've towed close to 30K miles in the past 10 years, using electric over hydraulic disc brakes, the only maintaince has been 1 set of pads, and a seal in the pump. They just use an electric brake controller. One thing use stainless steel brake lines, and silicon brake fluid, the other fluids are hydroscopic they absorb moisture where the silicon will not, but do not mix them. The trailer was used in saltwater, Cheasapeke, Delaware, and Hatteras, just washed well after each dunking.

When I rebuild the trailer for the Mac, it will get the same set up.

SamLust · Mar 28, 2011

Thanks Fred, good to know.

Fred Villiard · Mar 29, 2011

One thing that I forgot to mention that I used Liquid-Lube marine hub conversion, that uses a liquid lubricant instead of grease. Three of the bearings are origional, just had to replace one because I stepped down off the fender and put my weight on it. That broke the seal and let salt water in.

Just changed the lubricant every two or three years, and if it wasn't for dumbness I would not have to replace that bearing.

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