Substitute for Lewmar winch grease?
- Thread starter jviss
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The tube says "calcium sulphonate" but before you go looking for generic grease, google up replacement lewmar winch part prices. The OEM Lewmar grease is widely available.
And the answer is...
Answering my own question here.
I found in the 70's vintage manual that Lewmar specs the grease as "Lewmar Grease (7385) (Lubriplate Marine Lube 'A') and the oil as "Light Machine Oil (3 in 1 or equivalent)."
So, it appears they were not trying to do anything magic with lubes, and the lubrication requirements of winches are not particularly special. Waterproof grease and light machine oil.
Most important is to get it into the right places in the right amounts, and not get grease onto the pawls.
The modern equivalent of 'A' from Lubriplate is their "Special Auto Marine Grease," about $14.05 per 14 oz. can, but the shipping from them is murder!
I'm doing some winch maintenance this weekend, and will use 3 in 1 and my outboard waterproof marine grease. Cleaning with kerosene or odorless mineral spirits.
Answering my own question here.
I found in the 70's vintage manual that Lewmar specs the grease as "Lewmar Grease (7385) (Lubriplate Marine Lube 'A') and the oil as "Light Machine Oil (3 in 1 or equivalent)."
So, it appears they were not trying to do anything magic with lubes, and the lubrication requirements of winches are not particularly special. Waterproof grease and light machine oil.
Most important is to get it into the right places in the right amounts, and not get grease onto the pawls.
The modern equivalent of 'A' from Lubriplate is their "Special Auto Marine Grease," about $14.05 per 14 oz. can, but the shipping from them is murder!
I'm doing some winch maintenance this weekend, and will use 3 in 1 and my outboard waterproof marine grease. Cleaning with kerosene or odorless mineral spirits.
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That's true, but it's not so easy to get either in a hurry, and they are incredibly expensive for just plain old marine grease - like, $4.50/oz compared to $1/oz for Lubriplate. Plus, I'd rather have fewer containers of grease on board. I can use the waterproof marine grease on the outboard, the winches, the windlass, etc.
I think and acid brush is better, and a lot less expensive, too.
jv
I think and acid brush is better, and a lot less expensive, too.
jv
You are right on with your observation of their lubrication requirements .................... maybe unless you're ocean racing.
For the last 15 years I've been using Lubriplate #630-2 on the bearing surfaces and a few drops of 15-40 crankcase oil on the pawls. I gave up doing them every two years after I found each time the interior was dry and well lubricated. They still looked good after five years, last time I looked.
After taking the winches apart, they look pretty impervious to water unless submerged. I know that many will say your boat will sink, or worse
if you don't use the Lewmar's super duper, ultra expensive grease but take a closer look and you'll see that these gear assemblies receive minimal wear and tear with normal sailing. The only consideration here is keeping the internals clean and reasonably free of water.
I kind of agree on the 3 in 1, but it's better than a detergent motor oil, which many use with the best of intentions.
And, in the total scheme of things, any oil is a million times better than non at all.
I guess I could always grab one of my machine shop oil cans with SAE 5 or 10 non-detergent in it, but I'm afraid it wouldn't make it back to the shop.
On this topic, I just returned from my local NAPA store with a bottle of 3 in 1 and a tub of Sta-Lube Multi-Purpose Marine Grease. It was $6.49 for 14 oz. It has a very impressive description, particularly related to water resistance and corrosion protection. It lists as ingredients:
- Mineral Oil 64741-96-4
- Aluminum Benzoate Fatty Acid Complexes 82980-55-8
- Calcium Dinonylnapthalene Sulfonate 57885-77-3
So, that's it for me, a lifetime supply of winch lubes. I also bought a can of kerosene for cleaning. I have pawls and springs, as long as there are not broken gears or other parts I should be fine!
Gears and high force surfaces are well greased with a (duhh!) high pressure (and waterproof in this case) grease. Lithium grease used for auto wheel bearings works great. Did mine about 5 years ago and it seems to be holding up well.
jv,
I might be a bit cranky this afternoon, but I was successful in removing my old hot water heater (Seaward 6 gallons), so I'm a tad tired.
BUT, geez, the amount of time you've been discussing this would have given you enough time to just buy the Lewmar grease tube. I happened to come across mine this afternoon while I was looking for some paint for the new hot water heater.
Go for it, my tube has lasted since I bought it in 1999 or so.
Sometimes, the effort spent trying to find a $2 or so less expensive substitute just isn't worth it.
And 2 or 3 day shipping from almost all suppliers makes it less of a "time constrained" issue. If you have a chandlery close, it's even sooner.
But that's just me, and if you find one, please let us know...:dance:
Oops, I see you did.
Good for you.
Sorry for being cranky. But the hot water heater DID come out.
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When you consider the size of the gears in a winch from an engineering point of view they are way over size. The load that a man can apply and the speed of rotation precludes failure as long as some lubrication is present.
Exactly Stu..... I've serviced my 6 winches (4 two speeds, 2 singles) yearly, for these past 15 years, using the same tube of Lewmar winch grease. The little brush that comes with the maintenance kit is for the grease, not the oil, and Lewmar is very specific about applying the grease SPARINGLY. So it's like a 1/4 inch dab per winch...... the tube of grease, brush, oil bottle, instruction book and pack of spare springs and pawls are in a zip lock baggie in my maintenance drawer.jv,
BUT, geez, the amount of time you've been discussing this would have given you enough time to just buy the Lewmar grease tube. I happened to come across mine this afternoon while I was looking for some paint for the new hot water heater.
Go for it, my tube has lasted since I bought it in 1999 or so.
Sometimes, the effort spent trying to find a $2 or so less expensive substitute just isn't worth it.
And 2 or 3 day shipping from almost all suppliers makes it less of a "time constrained" issue. If you have a chandlery close, it's even sooner.
Honestly, you shouldn't have any dirty grease build up at all if you service yearly and use the grease sparingly.
To some of us it is quite interesting to know what the real lubrication requirements are, and not just blindly pay 10 times the cost for proprietarily-branded, supposedly application-specific supplies. Regardless of the fact that it's only $15 plus shipping, or traveling to a chandlery, which isn't easy or convenient for all, it's still a whopping premium over the generic. That's right, literally 10 times the price per unit volume.
Let me ask, if one had a couple of Lewmar winches, and a couple of Harken winches, would they buy one tube each of Lewmar and Harken winch grease? Or just use the Harken for all, or the Lewmar for all? (p.s. the Harken is cheaper). And then have a third, or even fourth and fifth, small tube of proprietary, application-specific grease or oil on hand for other equipment on the boat?
All that I wanted to know was what kind of grease and oil was necessary and sufficient for this application, and whether I could find, or already had the generic equivalent, that I could keep on hand and use for other purposes as well. Economy in sourcing and in price and in management of supplies. The truth is that I know my mini grease gun on board, with marine grease in it is just about empty, and Wal-Mart was out of the mini marine grease cartridges. In addition, I find a tub of grease easier to use, to dip ones' finger or brush into, not needing the other hand to squeeze a tube.
For anyone who's interested in this, my conclusion, stemming from the Lewmar documentation, is that there's nothing special about Lewmar winch grease or oil compared to the generics; just make sure you use a grease that has waterproof and corrosion inhibiting properties, and that the oil is light, and don't get the grease where the oil goes, and vice versa.
Let me ask, if one had a couple of Lewmar winches, and a couple of Harken winches, would they buy one tube each of Lewmar and Harken winch grease? Or just use the Harken for all, or the Lewmar for all? (p.s. the Harken is cheaper). And then have a third, or even fourth and fifth, small tube of proprietary, application-specific grease or oil on hand for other equipment on the boat?
All that I wanted to know was what kind of grease and oil was necessary and sufficient for this application, and whether I could find, or already had the generic equivalent, that I could keep on hand and use for other purposes as well. Economy in sourcing and in price and in management of supplies. The truth is that I know my mini grease gun on board, with marine grease in it is just about empty, and Wal-Mart was out of the mini marine grease cartridges. In addition, I find a tub of grease easier to use, to dip ones' finger or brush into, not needing the other hand to squeeze a tube.
For anyone who's interested in this, my conclusion, stemming from the Lewmar documentation, is that there's nothing special about Lewmar winch grease or oil compared to the generics; just make sure you use a grease that has waterproof and corrosion inhibiting properties, and that the oil is light, and don't get the grease where the oil goes, and vice versa.
I use a grease by Superlube exclusively. That I'm aware of, it contains little if any petroleum products at all, it's supposedly teflon grease. It's Edson's preferred lube, so that's really good enough for me, but I've used it for years and have little intentions at this point of trying anything else. And yeah, I put it in winches of course. It's a true pleasure dealing with this stuff, it just looks clean.
My thinking is, Lewmar doesn't manufacture grease any more than Edson does, or most any other equipment manufacturer. They find a lube they like, and then recommend it, or repackage it with their name on it. Sort of like walmart. They don't make oil any more than I do, they just put their name on it. And a simple hand winch certainly does not contain any exotic materials that would REQUIRE anything very special. Like said, the max RPM this thing will ever see is what, 20 RPM's? Maybe 60? If it turned a thousand, or five thousand it might be worthy of consideration.
I pay around 12 bucks a tube for it, and put it in smaller containers with snap on lids. I keep a small bit in the boat, and no other. Same for the tool truck. If another mechanic on the yard wants to use grease out of my truck, that's the only option he has. No one has ever told me that they don't like it. I really don't see number one stepping up to the plate any time soon..
My thinking is, Lewmar doesn't manufacture grease any more than Edson does, or most any other equipment manufacturer. They find a lube they like, and then recommend it, or repackage it with their name on it. Sort of like walmart. They don't make oil any more than I do, they just put their name on it. And a simple hand winch certainly does not contain any exotic materials that would REQUIRE anything very special. Like said, the max RPM this thing will ever see is what, 20 RPM's? Maybe 60? If it turned a thousand, or five thousand it might be worthy of consideration.
I pay around 12 bucks a tube for it, and put it in smaller containers with snap on lids. I keep a small bit in the boat, and no other. Same for the tool truck. If another mechanic on the yard wants to use grease out of my truck, that's the only option he has. No one has ever told me that they don't like it. I really don't see number one stepping up to the plate any time soon..
I've seen that around - looks great, too:
"Super Lube Anti-Corrosion Gel has superior synthetic dielectric compound specifically formulated to provide better protection than typical grease. It has excellent resistance to saltwater and most detergents. Contains PTFE, provides improved anti-wear properties, is waterproof, not washed away by acids or alkalis, and resists temperatures to 750 degrees F. The SYNCOLON-TM (PTFE) particles in Super Lube's unique patented formula are held in constant suspension ensuring they will always be evenly applied to the lubricated surface as needed."
Price is good, about $6/3 oz. tube, $13/14 oz. tub.
Good find!
"Super Lube Anti-Corrosion Gel has superior synthetic dielectric compound specifically formulated to provide better protection than typical grease. It has excellent resistance to saltwater and most detergents. Contains PTFE, provides improved anti-wear properties, is waterproof, not washed away by acids or alkalis, and resists temperatures to 750 degrees F. The SYNCOLON-TM (PTFE) particles in Super Lube's unique patented formula are held in constant suspension ensuring they will always be evenly applied to the lubricated surface as needed."
Price is good, about $6/3 oz. tube, $13/14 oz. tub.
Good find!
Re: Ross, i don't get it. What's your point ?
There are hundreds of choices for grease. One of them is certain to match the needs for lubricating winches. There is also a wealth of information on those pages concerning the formulation of grease. All of them are less costly than the Lewmar recommended grease.
There are hundreds of choices for grease. One of them is certain to match the needs for lubricating winches. There is also a wealth of information on those pages concerning the formulation of grease. All of them are less costly than the Lewmar recommended grease.
How bout fishing reel oil? Happen to have some Berkeley in the garage. Seems like the materials, environment and movements are pretty parallel.
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