Stuffing box leak

[Ben Anderson]

The stuffing box on my 1983 Catalina 27 recently started leaking, even while at rest. The leak was quite bad, filling the bilge in a matter of 36 hours. I was able to adjust each nut enough to slow it but rate is still very high. I didn't have the right tools to work on it properly tonight but knew something needed to be done (store nearby was out of stock). I just picked up a slip nut wrench from a different store and will use that along with my monkey wrench tomorrow.

I have about an inch or more of thread left (wish I had taken a picture). Does this warrant just sliding both nuts back to compact the flax a little or should I replace? I would have to do the replacement in water and this would be my first time performing the work.

If anyone has done this on a similar year and can commiserate how cramped that working space is, I'd feel better about my chances! I have read several other threads and watched videos on how to do this so I think I have the procedure down but I won't turn away advice. I do have both 3/16 and 1/4 flax although I am fairly confident 3/16 is required.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I would have to do the replacement in water and this would be my first time performing the work.

You can do it in the water but you should have a mechanically minded buddy aboard for psychological support. Check out the tutorial on gland packing on this site.

As far as giving you a breather to study what you're doing, try stopping all leakage using this method:

This shot is taken on our Hunter but I remember packing a Cat 27 way back and although it is a bit more crowded, using this method gives you all day to do the job.

 

[Ben Anderson]

Thanks! I saw this picture in another thread you posted in. I'll definitely try this out.

 

[PineyWoods]

Did you run the lock nut far enough aft to be able to run the packing nut down on the the packing to compress it with good resistance, and to feel it binding the shaft a bit? The suddenness and magnitude of the leak sounds more like an unlocked packing nut run out a bit with the turning shaft.

The packing definitely has to be compressed, and if the packing is OK, the leak will stop if compressed enough, and the shaft should be able to turn with some resistance. Then tighten the lock nut against it securely. And after 15 minutes or so motoring at cruising speed, feel the packing nut for excessive heat - shouldn't be more than warm, and ideally several drops of water a minute when running.
Pete

 

[bawlmer]

You will need two 18" wrenches from harbor freight. The slip nut wrenches will only cause frustration. There is plenty of wisdom on this site about getting the nuts loose. Get BOTH 3/16 and 1/4 inch flax. I asked Catalina which size to use and they were incorrect. It will save you time to have both sizes at the ready. I had this same lesson last year. It was not fun but it got done. Also I would NOT do this in the water if it is your first time. Just my .02 worth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/...b33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_17358.jpg

 

[OS2Dude]

I'm about to attempt this for my very first time for the same reason as well. (1985 Catalina 30) I'm sure this is the first time its been changed, at least in the last decade...

What type of flax is best? West Marine (Only local marine store) carries several different types. Normal, Teflon, GTU 'GORE'?

The GORE is Graphite infused, but is about 4-5 times as expensive. The Teflon flax is about the same as the normal flax.

I will have to do this in the water. Has anyone done this on my era Catalina? Any tips or tricks I should know?

 

[jssailem]

Use the normal flax on my boat. Works well.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I'm about to attempt this for my very first time for the same reason as well. (1985 Catalina 30) I'm sure this is the first time its been changed, at least in the last decade...

What type of flax is best? West Marine (Only local marine store) carries several different types. Normal, Teflon, GTU 'GORE'?

The GORE is Graphite infused, but is about 4-5 times as expensive. The Teflon flax is about the same as the normal flax.

I will have to do this in the water. Has anyone done this on my era Catalina? Any tips or tricks I should know?

I used to have a 1987 C30 and changed the packing a few different times with the boat in the water. It was no problem at all. The bilge pump easily kept up with the flow and there was no need to go to any lengths to do anything exotic in order to reduce or staunch the flow. Not a problem in the slightest.

Of course, I don't know what kind/capacity of bilge pump you have in yours. Mine was nothing special and probably just what you'd typically find in a C30 bilge. If yours is in good working order there should be no problem.

As for the packing itself, I used the GTU and had good success with it. You should adjust it so that it just weeps a slight bit of water where the shaft exits the packing nut. All forms of packing need *some* water to keep them lubricated and should never be run bone dry. (This is based not only on experience but on the explicit recommendation of Buck Algonquin, who manufactures the boxes in many of our boats.) An ideal setting is bone dry when the engine is off/shaft not rotating but slight weeping or an occasional drip with the shaft turning. You may wish to "sneak up" on the adjustment by adjusting it initially to where it drips a bit more than ideal at first and run it for several hours this way to let the packing settle in. Then tighten it just slightly to dial it in as described above. Excess dripping doesn't hurt anything, though it does add some water to your bilge, whereas running it too tight will result in an overheating condition that you want to avoid.

 

[kloewit]

The first time I did this job on my 89 C36 it was in the water and I was freaking out and thinking how I would tell the story of how I sank my boat. Turns out there's nothing to it. I just rap a rag around the stern tube and it slows the flow to just a drip which boost confidence to give you the time to do the pita part which is digging out All the old flax then replace with new. I use the drip less stuff and it works for me. I do keep an infrared heat thermometer and check temp every so often. I do not use the graphite as it is high on the galvanic table.

 

[OS2Dude]

I was up at the boat this weekend and looked closer at the gland. It is in the most inaccessible spot ever. The small hatch in the galley area at the foot of the companionway ladder only shows the log(? The actual part in the fibreglass where the shaft exists the hull.) Inside the engine compartment the last part I can see is the rear of of the transmission. I assume the gland nuts are therefore under the floor between those two places. Is this what others with a 1985 c-30 have found? Whats the best way to get at the gland nuts if this is the case?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

What type of flax is best?

Probably Gore, but it does contain graphite which "could" cause some problems depending on the composition of your shaft.

I've always used teflon impregnated flax and run it BONE DRY with no dripping whatsoever while running. This really irks the purists who say your your shaft will score, the packing will burn, the honey on the boat next over will stop wearing short shorts, and my brother-in-law will come to live with us. The real truth is, the leakage is so microscopic, it evaporates before it can drip. The area under the gland is always dry. And the gland and shaft are cool to the touch.

 

[Ben Anderson]

Didn't receive notifications of replies for some reason...

As far as what wrench to use, the normal adjustable wrenches wouldn't actually fit around the nuts. I checked at Lowe's and they didn't have anything large so I bought the slip nut wrench. I'll probably order a better wrench online for when I get back to this. The adjustment seems to have fixed the issue for now.

Chris, did you get yours replaced? The location on the C27 is very difficult to get at as well.

 

[pipedream]

I find two pipe wrenches easily break apart the nuts, especially about 15 minutes after a liberal PB blaster application. The slip nut wrench and will not apply enough torque to break the nuts apart ,does not tighten snugly.

I sue a pipe wrench and channel lock pliers to adjust the box for operation. Be sure to apply a rust preventive after the box is adjusted.

 

[EdFin]

This is primarily in regards to giving a vote of confidence if still considering changing out the stuffing box flax seal, while the boat is still in water.
Just DO IT!
If you weren't mechanically inclined, or able to think through a process, or think out-side the box; you wouldn't be reading and researching how to do this, you'd have spent a few $$$ for someone else to do what you can easily do.
I just changed my Hunter-38 packing gland, and this was the first I have done it, I too was concerned on how much water would come in, while trying to figure out how to do this, for the first time.
The amount of water that came in is the same as if you took your sink faucet, and put it to where it barely had a steady drizzle coming out. That's it. This is a 18,000 lb boat, but would expect the difference is proportionate to others, as this seems pretty consistent to what I've read in regards to others doing this in the water. I had a length of small diameter rope to do what Ralph Johnston recommend above, but it wasn't necessary, although that's a very clever idea!
A few things:
Research and get a good mental idea of what your going to to.
Have everything imaginable on hand and ready, although mine dripped for a few hours as I had to stop here and there, to give myself a break from bending over
PB Blaster... is probably a must have! Start soaking ahead of time as much as possible. I had trouble with the locking nut, had to keep wrenching back and forth, spray PB Blaster, smeared Lancote, back the nut over it... and kept at it back and forth for some time.
I used 2 pipe wrenches, aluminum 14" from Harbor Freight for $25.
The worse part was getting the old packing out, mine was really hardened. A trick I read somewhere was to thread a long screw into the packing, then pull it out with pliers. I tried this... it helped make a hole to get my 90* wire hook into, that's it. I sprayed PB blaster into the adjusting nut, which seemed to help the packing losen up and break apart. Buy some quality 'hardened' picks, I bought a cheap $2 set from Harbor Freight and one tip broke off... to be expected from there.
Final note... DO THIS OFTEN! At least... in terms of breaking the nuts apart and getting a visual, which I hope to do on an annual basis. 1) to keep the nuts lubricated, and 2) to get a visual on that packing... I rather spend 1-2hrs and $7 on packing gland 1-2 times a year; than 6 hours and $7 on packing gland every 5+ years!