Strange Electrical Issue

[justsomeguy]

This MacGregor owner wonders why a GFCI breaker isn't simply mounted on the panel, feeding what could be normal outlets?

Is there no such thing as an ABYC "approved" GFCI breaker? Too expensive?

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

This MacGregor owner wonders why a GFCI breaker isn't simply mounted on the panel, feeding what could be normal outlets?

My guess would be cost. Marine GFCI breakers that I have looked at online go for a couple hundred bucks. The whole panel Catalina installed is probably less than that. And the GFCI outlets they used were probably less than $10.

Is there no such thing as an ABYC "approved" GFCI breaker? Too expensive?

See below from earlier in this thread.

Double check the wiring then replace the GFCI's anyway. Catalina has been known to not follow their own diagrams..

In the marine environment 5-8 years is about as good as it gets... Remember these devices trip on a 5mA imbalance between hot & neutral and the tripping action may be in the feed to the branch breakers meaning both should trip at the same time if both are loaded when the imbalance occurs.. 5mA is just 0.005A of a difference between white and black wires. This level of mA leakage is really easy to accomplish with boat and marina wiring...

Just be sure that when buying GFCI's they meet UL 943... This does not require them to be a "marine" GFCI but does mean you're not buying a bottom of the barrel cheap GFCI either and you're buying a decent "class A" GFCI..

Look for a "WR" rated UL 943 GFCI and you'll be doing pretty well.. I also use WR UL 943 GFCI's at home (Legrand) and they outlast the cheapies by about 10:1.

Hubbell & Legrand/Pass & Seymour make UL 943 GFCI's I know to hold up pretty well in the marine environment but Leviton & others make them also. Leviton in the electrical world has the nickname Levicrap so be aware of that.

It can be tough to find a good quality WR UL 943/Class A GFCI at other than an electrical supply house, but they can be found.. I often use the Hubbell GF5252MWA which is white and stocked at one of my local electrical wholesalers. They are a decent GFCI for the money and hold up better than what you will find at a home center..

Be aware that Marinco simply sticks a WR Leviton GFCI into a Marinco box, calls it "marine", and charges you 6X the real going rate....

Now if you really want a good quality "marine duty" GFCI spend the money on a hospital grade GFCI such as the Hubbell GFR8200WTR (the 20A version is the 8300). These are WR rated (tamper-proof too) but nickel plated internally to resist corrosion. It is what I have on my own boat. Grab your ankles though because a hospital spec GFCI will run you about $90.00..... I grabbed mine in the scratch & dent bin at my local wholesaler for $20.00 each because I knew what they were.... The Legrand hospital GFCI is great too and slightly less money depending on which model..

Good quality GFCI's, that tend to last longer on boats, come from Legrand/Pass & Seymour & Hubbell. It has been my experience that they out last the others in the marine world. Cooper Industries does okay too..

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Smitty, sounds good. Our C34s have one loop around the boat for three of the five receptacles, the two others are on a separate loop. Most of us with the older Mark I boats have added GFCIs in the head, and the first receptacle on the other loop.

I don't understand the "rant" at all. While he's right, it surely doesn't apply to you or this discussion. He also seems to be new to this forum, 5 total posts. Wait til he gets to know us!

Thanks Stu. What you are describing on the C34s is what my wiring diagram looks like but not what it is actually like.

I wonder if this is a manufacturer doing something different on my boat or if they didn't follow the wiring diagram on all of them. The guy in the slip across from me in my winter marina has the same boat and year as me. But his hull number in like 140 while mine is 65. When he gets back from work I am going to ask him.

 

[justsomeguy]

My guess would be cost. Marine GFCI breakers that I have looked at online go for a couple hundred bucks. The whole panel Catalina installed is probably less than that. And the GFCI outlets they used were probably less than $10.



See below from earlier in this thread.

So it is the expense.
Thank you, and Maine Sail, too. Was deducing why my exterior outlets here at the Ranch weren't energized, and pulled the 15A GFCI breaker from the panel, substituting a standard 15A breaker to test the circuit.

About had a heart attack when I learned how stupidly expensive a simple 15A GFCI is, let alone a "good" one.

I'm such a cheap b*****d! Maybe that's what iStream was referring to.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Thanks Stu. What you are describing on the C34s is what my wiring diagram looks like but not what it is actually like.

I wonder if this is a manufacturer doing something different on my boat or if they didn't follow the wiring diagram on all of them. The guy in the slip across from me in my winter marina has the same boat and year as me. But his hull number in like 140 while mine is 65. When he gets back from work I am going to ask him.

So I just confirmed with my neighbor, his 310 is wired the same as mine. His also has a GFCI in the head. So it appears that the wiring diagram supplied by Catalina maybe wrong, at least for boats built in 2001.

 

[Stu Jackson]

... So it appears that the wiring diagram supplied by Catalina maybe wrong, at least for boats built in 2001.

Not limited to your condition, Smitty, our AC diagram was completely wrong, they fixed it in subsequent issues. The green ground to the outlets was all messed up if you followed the wires from the shorepower inlet. Good thing? The boat was wired right, the manual was wrong!

That's why, I guess, we continue to suggest to folks that they check what they have and draw their own diagrams. Actually, I find it fun and always a learning experience. And, as you reflect, a safety issue, too. The more ya know... [the crazier ya get? ). :dance:

 

[mitiempo]

I have 6 outlets on one 15 amp breaker. The 1st and 3rd outlets are GFCI. Which means the 3rd outlet being GFCI is redundant and not needed. I should just replace that outlet with a standard outlet and leave all 6 on a single leg because there is no benefit to having two separate legs going to the same 15 amp breaker.

If I wanted to get some additional power usage I should add a second 15 amp breaker and split the outlets between the two 15 amp breakers.

Am I correct?

Yes, you are correct.

If it were me I would keep the second GFCI and add a second breaker for that leg. But if you do not use many AC items on board it's not as necessary.

The only possible issue I can see with multiple standard duplex outlets after a GFCI is the chance of more nuisance trips on that circuit. Trips of the GFCI that is. If the circuit was overloaded the circuit breaker would trip. Breakers and GFCI's trip for different reasons.

 

[IStream]

About had a heart attack when I learned how stupidly expensive a simple 15A GFCI is, let alone a "good" one.

I'm such a cheap b*****d! Maybe that's what iStream was referring to.

Nah, I was just being a jerk, from one Catalina owner to another. ;o)

 

[mitiempo]

A simple GFCI is $12 to $15

 

[justsomeguy]

A simple GFCI is $12 to $15

I should have written GFCI "breaker". My bad.

iStream, no worries!

 

[mitiempo]

I should have written GFCI "breaker". My bad.

iStream, no worries!

The only "GFCI breaker I know of is a, ELCI and yes, they are expensive. Otherwise known as whole boat GFCI's.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/31...ain_Circuit_Breaker_-_Double_Pole_120V_AC_30A

 

[justsomeguy]

I learned something new, again. Thanks, mitiempo!

http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/ELCI -GFCI-Electrical-Shock-Protection