Someone on this message board had previously recommended the book "Storm Tactics", which I just finished reading. I found it very interesting. The authors, Lin and Larry Purdey, seem to see the tactic of heaving to as nearly a universal tactic for coping with rough weather in almost all instances, assuming the boat is not about to be blown onto a lee shore or onto rocks, etc. I believe I read something on this list, though, that some believe heaving to is not wise when dealing with breaking waves. Another issue is the method of heaving to that the Purdeys recommend: They seem to recommend heaving to with just a try sail and no head sail, and using a para-anchor to keep the boat at about a 50 degree angle to the wind. With the para anchor, they recommend keeping the tiller about 15 degrees to leeward. However, what I was taught in a class I took, and I think what I've read from others here is to heave to by simply tacking the boat without loosening the head sail sheet, thus back winding the head sail. Then, after the boat passes through the wind, simply put the tiller all the way over to leeward. Any comments on any aspect of these or related issues would be greatly appreciated.
"Storm Tactics"
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A friend of mine has their dvd which was very
it was easier to see how they heaved to. I have not tried their methods. abe
it was easier to see how they heaved to. I have not tried their methods. abe
Depends on the boat, especially the keel
How a boat heaves to depends on its design. A long, modern, lifting keel, and a light hull may make it harder to remain stable while hove to. Our '77 h27 with its shoal keel heaves to easily. But its relatively flat bottom and beamy shape mean the we make more leeway that some other boats. When we first got the boat, we hired a sailing instructor to take us out for a day, and show us the ropes. He had us heave to out in Sandusky Bay, then again after we had dropped the sails in the calm waters outside the entrance to the marina. Sure enough, our hull shape had enough windage forward to heave to on the hull with the tiller to leeward. Likewise, the amount of sail to carry, and how to trim them will depend on the weather, and the boat. While it's true that the Pardeys have the experience, and we don't, we have hove to enough times for lunch, or to reef the main in rough conditions that we are confident we can use the tactic in storm conditions. However, with safe ports all along the shores of our Great Lake, and good weather reporting, we are less likely to get caught in a big storm that will last longer than we can helm the boat on a safe course. By the way, in winds from 10 to 30 knots, we heave to as you learned to. But if we had already reduced sail to a trysail (don't have one, by the way) then that is the configuration we would use to heave to. Adlard Coles "Heavy Weather Sailing" discuses a broader range of tactics if you are interested. In any case, give heaving to a try next time you are out in a good wind and sea state. It's fun, and if your boat can be trimmed to do it, you will have a new tool to reduce risk and increase enjoyment. David Lady Lillie
How a boat heaves to depends on its design. A long, modern, lifting keel, and a light hull may make it harder to remain stable while hove to. Our '77 h27 with its shoal keel heaves to easily. But its relatively flat bottom and beamy shape mean the we make more leeway that some other boats. When we first got the boat, we hired a sailing instructor to take us out for a day, and show us the ropes. He had us heave to out in Sandusky Bay, then again after we had dropped the sails in the calm waters outside the entrance to the marina. Sure enough, our hull shape had enough windage forward to heave to on the hull with the tiller to leeward. Likewise, the amount of sail to carry, and how to trim them will depend on the weather, and the boat. While it's true that the Pardeys have the experience, and we don't, we have hove to enough times for lunch, or to reef the main in rough conditions that we are confident we can use the tactic in storm conditions. However, with safe ports all along the shores of our Great Lake, and good weather reporting, we are less likely to get caught in a big storm that will last longer than we can helm the boat on a safe course. By the way, in winds from 10 to 30 knots, we heave to as you learned to. But if we had already reduced sail to a trysail (don't have one, by the way) then that is the configuration we would use to heave to. Adlard Coles "Heavy Weather Sailing" discuses a broader range of tactics if you are interested. In any case, give heaving to a try next time you are out in a good wind and sea state. It's fun, and if your boat can be trimmed to do it, you will have a new tool to reduce risk and increase enjoyment. David Lady Lillie
fastnet
PBO - just got the latest issue. The story says that the facts are, in the '79 Fastnet race, that most sailors would have been better off sailing rather than heaving too. As for one person being right and another wrong, it really depends on a lot of factors. Keel design is one major one. Location in another (perhaps you are in a shipping lane..better keep going then). What works for one may be deadly for another. The sail(s) you have up while hove too or while sailing depends again on the type of sails you have. I do not believe the Purdy's have a roller furling. Makes a big difference in trying to put up another sail. And what if you have a cutter rig? Or a cutter with a mizzen to boot!! And how many reef points are on your ship? I have three on the main on my cutter. More on sails, or moron on sails. I have a cutter with a high cut jib. It is the middle of the road, according to all accounts, for a proper cruising boat of my size, a 37' 20,000, semi-full keel, cutter. But my friend on his 30' Catalina, among others, says I need a fuller jib as theirs are full and they have no problem. See the problem? Perhaps they are right, and they are, in certain conditions. In others, they might be wrong. Another sail pick story. Colby, my buddy, was enthralled with the 14 sails that came with his boat (a 42' Palmer Johnson race boat), plus the two that were up! He wanted the biggest jib up and I deferred, which is why I was with him on this trip of two. An argument ensued. I wanted the shortest of the three jibs (I know they all have names, but my mind..gone). He wanted the longest. We settled on the middle. Why did I want the shortest? Colby had no sailing experience. None. Nada. Zip. I was there to train him. Yes, you go slower with a shorty, but time and education (experience) would allow him to chose more wisely later rather than a brash "Let's go FASTER" mind set now. So going in to Annapolis we encounter 32 knot winds, both sails up while others have either/or up. Going like mad, and the line to retrieve the roller furling breaks. We were flying!! We should have reefed thinks I. We got the sails down and Colby learned a lesson. So did I. At 32 knots, with all sails up, I would have been burying the rail on my boat. The PJ still had 10 degrees to go and had a foot of freeboard left. In other words, she could take it, and more. Colby learned biggest isn't always best, especially when short handed. He now uses only the mid jib in Key West and placed first or second in every race he entered.
PBO - just got the latest issue. The story says that the facts are, in the '79 Fastnet race, that most sailors would have been better off sailing rather than heaving too. As for one person being right and another wrong, it really depends on a lot of factors. Keel design is one major one. Location in another (perhaps you are in a shipping lane..better keep going then). What works for one may be deadly for another. The sail(s) you have up while hove too or while sailing depends again on the type of sails you have. I do not believe the Purdy's have a roller furling. Makes a big difference in trying to put up another sail. And what if you have a cutter rig? Or a cutter with a mizzen to boot!! And how many reef points are on your ship? I have three on the main on my cutter. More on sails, or moron on sails. I have a cutter with a high cut jib. It is the middle of the road, according to all accounts, for a proper cruising boat of my size, a 37' 20,000, semi-full keel, cutter. But my friend on his 30' Catalina, among others, says I need a fuller jib as theirs are full and they have no problem. See the problem? Perhaps they are right, and they are, in certain conditions. In others, they might be wrong. Another sail pick story. Colby, my buddy, was enthralled with the 14 sails that came with his boat (a 42' Palmer Johnson race boat), plus the two that were up! He wanted the biggest jib up and I deferred, which is why I was with him on this trip of two. An argument ensued. I wanted the shortest of the three jibs (I know they all have names, but my mind..gone). He wanted the longest. We settled on the middle. Why did I want the shortest? Colby had no sailing experience. None. Nada. Zip. I was there to train him. Yes, you go slower with a shorty, but time and education (experience) would allow him to chose more wisely later rather than a brash "Let's go FASTER" mind set now. So going in to Annapolis we encounter 32 knot winds, both sails up while others have either/or up. Going like mad, and the line to retrieve the roller furling breaks. We were flying!! We should have reefed thinks I. We got the sails down and Colby learned a lesson. So did I. At 32 knots, with all sails up, I would have been burying the rail on my boat. The PJ still had 10 degrees to go and had a foot of freeboard left. In other words, she could take it, and more. Colby learned biggest isn't always best, especially when short handed. He now uses only the mid jib in Key West and placed first or second in every race he entered.
I think a lot depends
on your type of boat, where you are on the planet, the equipment you have aboard to deal with heavy weather, and perhaps most importantly, the attitude and experience of the crew. Some boats heave-to nicely, others don't. Best to know what your boat and crew will do before you actually have to deal with a heavy weather situation. I recall one trip I was on coming back from Bermuda in a 42-ft Oyster. Really bad weather crossing the Gulf Stream resulted in us trying a lot of tactics to deal with a big and nasty following sea. Fortunately, the owner had one of those long lines (1 inch in diameter) to which were attached a number small parachute drogues. We attached it to the stern with a bridle and the boat really calmed down and took the following seas nicely. I was really glad he had the piece of gear aboard... If we had to run under bare poles I feel certain we had a good chance of pitch-poling.
on your type of boat, where you are on the planet, the equipment you have aboard to deal with heavy weather, and perhaps most importantly, the attitude and experience of the crew. Some boats heave-to nicely, others don't. Best to know what your boat and crew will do before you actually have to deal with a heavy weather situation. I recall one trip I was on coming back from Bermuda in a 42-ft Oyster. Really bad weather crossing the Gulf Stream resulted in us trying a lot of tactics to deal with a big and nasty following sea. Fortunately, the owner had one of those long lines (1 inch in diameter) to which were attached a number small parachute drogues. We attached it to the stern with a bridle and the boat really calmed down and took the following seas nicely. I was really glad he had the piece of gear aboard... If we had to run under bare poles I feel certain we had a good chance of pitch-poling.
more than one way to heave to....
you've just described two of them. The fact that this confuses you leads me to believe that you didn't understand the book's purpose. Read it again. Heaving to for an hour so you can have lunch without dropping the sails is completely different than heaving to in order to survive a storm.
you've just described two of them. The fact that this confuses you leads me to believe that you didn't understand the book's purpose. Read it again. Heaving to for an hour so you can have lunch without dropping the sails is completely different than heaving to in order to survive a storm.
Keep several tactics in your inventory....
As I recall, the Pardeys sail a full-keel, wide-beam boat (engine-less, as well), so their tactics may or may not be the best for any other boat. Heaving to lying to a sea anchor (from the bow) running off under bare poles running under a drogue (that was a Jordan series drogue you described, Warren - a very useful device in many situations) lying ahull (out of favor these days, but still something to know about) trailing warps and even laying an oil slick (not in US waters, of course!) are all tactics that any off-shore sailor should be acquainted with. Another excellent book on storm tactics is: Surviving the Storm by Steve and Linda Dashew It surveys a number of highly-experienced off-shore sailors, and studies not only the Fastnet disaster, but also the 1994 'Queen's Birthday Storm' near Australia, when a number of cruising boats transiting to New Zealand took a pasting. Weather, equipment, tactics and preparation are all discussed in depth. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
As I recall, the Pardeys sail a full-keel, wide-beam boat (engine-less, as well), so their tactics may or may not be the best for any other boat. Heaving to lying to a sea anchor (from the bow) running off under bare poles running under a drogue (that was a Jordan series drogue you described, Warren - a very useful device in many situations) lying ahull (out of favor these days, but still something to know about) trailing warps and even laying an oil slick (not in US waters, of course!) are all tactics that any off-shore sailor should be acquainted with. Another excellent book on storm tactics is: Surviving the Storm by Steve and Linda Dashew It surveys a number of highly-experienced off-shore sailors, and studies not only the Fastnet disaster, but also the 1994 'Queen's Birthday Storm' near Australia, when a number of cruising boats transiting to New Zealand took a pasting. Weather, equipment, tactics and preparation are all discussed in depth. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
My feeling is that you can learn
much by trying a number of methods in less than twenty knots until you find one that works at that level. That will at least give a starting point for when you need it. Remember that running under bare poles will prolong the time that you are in the storm system. If you can stop and let the storm pass you then the duration of the storm is less.
much by trying a number of methods in less than twenty knots until you find one that works at that level. That will at least give a starting point for when you need it. Remember that running under bare poles will prolong the time that you are in the storm system. If you can stop and let the storm pass you then the duration of the storm is less.
more on Pardeys
The Pardeys mention all the different tactics mentioned here. They clearly seem to feel, though, that nothing is as safe as heaving to. They claim that, for example, in that infamous Fastnet race where several boats sank, that those that hove to survived. One disadvantage of running with the storm, for instance, is that of simple fatigue on the part of the person driving the boat. Unless you have a large crew, the Pardeys seem to feel that fatigue and resulting lack of attention, lack of rapid response or simple error can have disastrous results. Also, they say that running with the storm can mean more time in the storm. But above all, according to them, heaving to is simply safer. This is their point of view; I, myself, simply lack the experience to have any opinion. One question that is still unanswered is whether heaving to is inadvisable in a situation of breaking waves. The Pardeys see no problem with this. Do others concur? Several on this thread have pointed out that heaving to in different boats is different. The Pardeys also make this point, but they say that almost any boat can be hove to; one just has to learn where the balance point is, how much sail to have up, etc. (In my own case, we have a Catalina 36.)
The Pardeys mention all the different tactics mentioned here. They clearly seem to feel, though, that nothing is as safe as heaving to. They claim that, for example, in that infamous Fastnet race where several boats sank, that those that hove to survived. One disadvantage of running with the storm, for instance, is that of simple fatigue on the part of the person driving the boat. Unless you have a large crew, the Pardeys seem to feel that fatigue and resulting lack of attention, lack of rapid response or simple error can have disastrous results. Also, they say that running with the storm can mean more time in the storm. But above all, according to them, heaving to is simply safer. This is their point of view; I, myself, simply lack the experience to have any opinion. One question that is still unanswered is whether heaving to is inadvisable in a situation of breaking waves. The Pardeys see no problem with this. Do others concur? Several on this thread have pointed out that heaving to in different boats is different. The Pardeys also make this point, but they say that almost any boat can be hove to; one just has to learn where the balance point is, how much sail to have up, etc. (In my own case, we have a Catalina 36.)
Hal Roth and his wife Margaret have sailed
many thousands of miles and they heave to for all manner of reasons not just in storms. In one case she asked him to heave to so that she could bake a cake. The Pardeys were in their very early days of sailing before Serafin and Lin was doing a night passage to the Channel Islands. She was not confident in her navigation for a night time approach so they hove to until dawn. It turned out that a boom had been laid across the harbor entrance to contain a spill. Heaving to is just a very good way to stop when that is prudent.
many thousands of miles and they heave to for all manner of reasons not just in storms. In one case she asked him to heave to so that she could bake a cake. The Pardeys were in their very early days of sailing before Serafin and Lin was doing a night passage to the Channel Islands. She was not confident in her navigation for a night time approach so they hove to until dawn. It turned out that a boom had been laid across the harbor entrance to contain a spill. Heaving to is just a very good way to stop when that is prudent.
Breaking seas....
up the ante enormously. Presenting the boat at any angle other than bow or stern on significantly increases the chances of being knocked down. Heaving to won't keep the bow into the wind/seas - the angle will be more like 50 to 90 degrees. Of course, by the time the seas have built to the size and frequency to be breaking, the wind will almost certainly be too strong to allow heaving-to. Running off - either under bare poles, or with a drogue to slow the boat - will usually present the stern to the waves. In this case, the drogue becomes important to prevent pitchpoling. The Jordan series drogue seems to do a better job of keeping the drag constant. Riding to a sea anchor, it is almost impossible to keep the bow directly into the wind - even the Pardey's bridle arrangement gives 60 degrees off the wind. When the seas are confused - as when the front passes, the chances of being hit increase. So there isn't any single 'best tactic' in breaking waves. A lot will depend on what resources are available, the size/speed/direction of the storm and/or a possible lee shore, the boat, the crew, etc. As I said before, the more tool available, the better the chances of survivial. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
up the ante enormously. Presenting the boat at any angle other than bow or stern on significantly increases the chances of being knocked down. Heaving to won't keep the bow into the wind/seas - the angle will be more like 50 to 90 degrees. Of course, by the time the seas have built to the size and frequency to be breaking, the wind will almost certainly be too strong to allow heaving-to. Running off - either under bare poles, or with a drogue to slow the boat - will usually present the stern to the waves. In this case, the drogue becomes important to prevent pitchpoling. The Jordan series drogue seems to do a better job of keeping the drag constant. Riding to a sea anchor, it is almost impossible to keep the bow directly into the wind - even the Pardey's bridle arrangement gives 60 degrees off the wind. When the seas are confused - as when the front passes, the chances of being hit increase. So there isn't any single 'best tactic' in breaking waves. A lot will depend on what resources are available, the size/speed/direction of the storm and/or a possible lee shore, the boat, the crew, etc. As I said before, the more tool available, the better the chances of survivial. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
BobW, Have you read the Pardey's book?
I suspect that you haven't, else you would realize that they address all of these concerns and the various methods of dealing with them. By the time it becomes necessary to heave to in a storm you should have already shortened sail to a storm jib and trysail. The Pardeys site not only their own experience but that of many other world cruisers with both the successes and the failures. One of the interesting characteristics of Larry's method of heaving to with a parachute anchor is his very careful trimming to completely stop forward motin of the boat so that they are creating a broad slick of turbulent water that distroys the breaking waves as they approach the boat. He states that if he had forward motion he would sail out of this slick and lose the benefit.
I suspect that you haven't, else you would realize that they address all of these concerns and the various methods of dealing with them. By the time it becomes necessary to heave to in a storm you should have already shortened sail to a storm jib and trysail. The Pardeys site not only their own experience but that of many other world cruisers with both the successes and the failures. One of the interesting characteristics of Larry's method of heaving to with a parachute anchor is his very careful trimming to completely stop forward motin of the boat so that they are creating a broad slick of turbulent water that distroys the breaking waves as they approach the boat. He states that if he had forward motion he would sail out of this slick and lose the benefit.
No, Ross, I haven't read that book....
although I am familiar with it from reading various excerpts from it and references to it. Nothing I have posted should ever be interpreted as presuming that my extremely limited knowledge of the issue compares in any way, shape or form to that of Lin and Larry Pardey.
My last post was specifically trying to give John some answers to his question in post #10 about heaving-to in breaking seas - I think that some of us may be getting confused between 'heaving-to' and 'lying to a sea anchor', as it seems unlikely that a small (less than 40', let's say) could actually heave-to in storm conditions that would generate breaking seas. I hate to be overly technical, but when you mention 'heaving-to with a parachute anchor', aren't you combining two tactics? As far as I am aware, the Pardeys' tactic sometimes involves a small storm trysail in conjunction with a parachute anchor, but not the traditional 'heaving-to' scheme of a centered main and backed jib. Am I wrong? BTW, I was aware of the 'generating a slick' aspect of the Pardeys' storm tactic. Steve Dashew seems a bit dubious - he mentions that he has never found another sailor who has been able to duplicate the slick, and proposes that the peculiar - and uncommon - design of Serafyn may have a lot to do with it. Having said all that, the last thing I want to do is start an argument. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
although I am familiar with it from reading various excerpts from it and references to it. Nothing I have posted should ever be interpreted as presuming that my extremely limited knowledge of the issue compares in any way, shape or form to that of Lin and Larry Pardey.
My last post was specifically trying to give John some answers to his question in post #10 about heaving-to in breaking seas - I think that some of us may be getting confused between 'heaving-to' and 'lying to a sea anchor', as it seems unlikely that a small (less than 40', let's say) could actually heave-to in storm conditions that would generate breaking seas. I hate to be overly technical, but when you mention 'heaving-to with a parachute anchor', aren't you combining two tactics? As far as I am aware, the Pardeys' tactic sometimes involves a small storm trysail in conjunction with a parachute anchor, but not the traditional 'heaving-to' scheme of a centered main and backed jib. Am I wrong? BTW, I was aware of the 'generating a slick' aspect of the Pardeys' storm tactic. Steve Dashew seems a bit dubious - he mentions that he has never found another sailor who has been able to duplicate the slick, and proposes that the peculiar - and uncommon - design of Serafyn may have a lot to do with it. Having said all that, the last thing I want to do is start an argument. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
Manny
The old style sea anchors could be fitted with an oil reservoir. The oil when spread in the slick caused by the drifting vessel while hove to or laying a-hull changes the sea air interface enough to disrupt the formation of breaking tops in the waves. It’s fallen out of favor for modern yachts because fin keel boats don’t often heave to or lay a-hull properly but its still standard equipment in ships and lifeboats. Some older texts on small boat seamanship also recommended it and suggested pumping it out the head if you were laying a-hull without a sea anchor. It takes in the neighborhood of a quart an hour to make a profound difference if you can keep the boat in the right spot. As they say, imho not worth thinking about unless you have a suitable boat which will heave to or lay a-hull properly. These discussions are always interesting. But most people miss the point about the authors who are making recommendations based on their own experience. What they like to do is suitable for their boats and their style of sailing. It may not work for you and while it provides ideas you had better get to know your own boat so you can have a coordinated plan when the time comes. When things get rough out there it’s not like ordering from a Chinese menu where you can try a bit of this an a bit of that You may not be able to change plans during the storm so think it out and make the right choice first. Good luck and all the best, Robert Gainer
The old style sea anchors could be fitted with an oil reservoir. The oil when spread in the slick caused by the drifting vessel while hove to or laying a-hull changes the sea air interface enough to disrupt the formation of breaking tops in the waves. It’s fallen out of favor for modern yachts because fin keel boats don’t often heave to or lay a-hull properly but its still standard equipment in ships and lifeboats. Some older texts on small boat seamanship also recommended it and suggested pumping it out the head if you were laying a-hull without a sea anchor. It takes in the neighborhood of a quart an hour to make a profound difference if you can keep the boat in the right spot. As they say, imho not worth thinking about unless you have a suitable boat which will heave to or lay a-hull properly. These discussions are always interesting. But most people miss the point about the authors who are making recommendations based on their own experience. What they like to do is suitable for their boats and their style of sailing. It may not work for you and while it provides ideas you had better get to know your own boat so you can have a coordinated plan when the time comes. When things get rough out there it’s not like ordering from a Chinese menu where you can try a bit of this an a bit of that You may not be able to change plans during the storm so think it out and make the right choice first. Good luck and all the best, Robert Gainer
BobW
I was hove to in a Chance 30-30 in winds approaching 90 knots until my headstay and storm jib departed the boat. I lay a-hull after that because the boat was directional unstable with only a trysail up. Being hove to was more comfortable and easier on the boat but without a headstay my options became limited. On the subject of a slick to windward. I was Sailing Master on a West Country ketch and in a winter north Atlantic gale we hove to for a short time to change out a topmast backstay that had parted. The slick was clearly visible and formed a dramatic smooth spot to windward. The boat was 100 tons unladen and full keel as in sailing boxcar with a flat bottom. The slick from a fin keel boat is there but too small to be of any use. All the best Robert Gainer
I was hove to in a Chance 30-30 in winds approaching 90 knots until my headstay and storm jib departed the boat. I lay a-hull after that because the boat was directional unstable with only a trysail up. Being hove to was more comfortable and easier on the boat but without a headstay my options became limited. On the subject of a slick to windward. I was Sailing Master on a West Country ketch and in a winter north Atlantic gale we hove to for a short time to change out a topmast backstay that had parted. The slick was clearly visible and formed a dramatic smooth spot to windward. The boat was 100 tons unladen and full keel as in sailing boxcar with a flat bottom. The slick from a fin keel boat is there but too small to be of any use. All the best Robert Gainer
BobW, You are years behind the times
These methods were used aboard Talisin in the seas off New Zealand. Serafin is a 24 foot on deck full keel, transom mounted rudder cutter. Designed by Lyle Hess. Talisin is 29 feet on deck with a full keel and a transom hung rudder. These methods have been used in storms to about 80 knots. You should read Storm Tactics by Pardey and Heavy Weather Sailing by Adlard Coles. Also worth your time is "Seaworthyness- The forgotten Factor" by C.J. Marchaj
These methods were used aboard Talisin in the seas off New Zealand. Serafin is a 24 foot on deck full keel, transom mounted rudder cutter. Designed by Lyle Hess. Talisin is 29 feet on deck with a full keel and a transom hung rudder. These methods have been used in storms to about 80 knots. You should read Storm Tactics by Pardey and Heavy Weather Sailing by Adlard Coles. Also worth your time is "Seaworthyness- The forgotten Factor" by C.J. Marchaj
Robert Gainer - re: Repoly #16
Instead of "These discussions are always interesting" perhaps one could also have written "These discussions are always entertaining"!
Instead of "These discussions are always interesting" perhaps one could also have written "These discussions are always entertaining"!
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