I bought my first sailboat-81 oday 25 cb- in the fall-from a guy up on the hudson river-stonypoint ny. I sailed it on the hudson for about a month and then dry stored it at the marina where I purchased it. I live about an hour away in whitestone, queens and I am going to be keeping the boat in bayside marina in little neck bay. I do not have a trailer and will be sailing/motoring her home. So I have to travel south down the hudson from stonypoint and then once I get to the battery hook over to the east river-time the current just right and ill be home. Now my question is does this sound like a one day or two day event? I was originally thinking I would spend one day going down the hudson and then overnighting at a marina by the battery and then the next day go up the east river and then into the long island sound. Is that a good plan or can I do it all in one day??
stonypoint ny to littleneck bay-newbie
- Thread starter digitek718
- Start date
- Status
This recent post might help, same concept, different direction: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=116206
I bought and brought my boat from Liberty Island Marina in Jersey City into LI Sound using the East River. Great trip! You can make it from there to Little Neck Harbor in a couple of hours. Going with the tide is paramount. The major hazard, I think, is to go to the correct side of Roosevelt Is. The wrong side and a bridge may take your mast down. Liberty Is. has a nice restaurant for dinner but a little expensive. If you have access to a car there you can go to the Newport area of Jersey City for other dinner options. There's a diner on the other end of the park that can supply sandwiches. There's good security at the park and at the marina. You can expect commercial traffic on the East River but its all pretty understandable. You'll want some crew - but not too many.
I'm saying two days. I don't know about the first part of the trip but why not enjoy it.
I'm saying two days. I don't know about the first part of the trip but why not enjoy it.
You are talking about a 60 statute mile trip with 40 miles from Stony Point to the battery. I figure you may be able to do the 40 miles in between 8 to 10 hours depending on the traffic and the currents. To overnight at Liberty Island Marina would probably be your best bet as other marinas in the Hudson are just rocked by the wakes of ferries and commercial boats. The ride from the battery Park to the Brooklin bridge is not pretty as you will have to dodge the fast mooving ferries and contend with the churned waters. It is a must to be able to ride the current through Hell's Gate as it can be around 5 knots at its maximum and it could stop you in your tracks if its against you. Check a tides and currents timetable on both rivers. As far as fuel I do not know what engine you are running but if it is a 10HP outboard I would take 20 gallons for the whole trip or make plans to refuel along the way. When approaching Roosevelt Island just stay close to the Manhattan shoreline and you will be on the correct side. The 2nd leg of the trip should take you around 3 to 4 hours. If you have never done this trip an experienced crew person is recommended. You will not get lost in the rivers but small boat handling can get tricky.
We made it from the 79th Street Boat Basin to Stony Point in just over four hours, motoring only, in a changing tide. 79th Street to the Battery is probably another hour or two, depending on the tide and the number of ferries you have to dodge. If you are new to the boat, I would recommend stopping for the night somewhere around the city. The boat basin is great, but you've got to have a swing keel to get in to the slips, or you can rent a mooring for the night. A friend stayed in a marina on the Jersey side and said it was very nice and a lot cheaper than Liberty. If you are stopping for gas, Tarrytown is a good place to go, although it's only about halfway between Stony Point and the city. You don't want to run out of gas in NY Harbor. That would be bad.
stony point to NYC
Thats our standard trip to get out to the sound for our summer vacation, done on a catalina 25 and a cat30- sometimes alone sometimes with crew. if you leave at high tide you you can ride the current all the way down the hudson and get the current going up the east river. nothing tricky about navigaton with a chart or chart plotter. got to watch for all the ferries, water taxis and other boat traffice at the battery. Hells Gate was not a problem as you fly up the east river with the current at 8-9 knots over the bottom. trip takes about 8-10 hours. used about 10 gallons of fuel or less with the outboard on the cat25- but always took any extra tank just in case.
Thats our standard trip to get out to the sound for our summer vacation, done on a catalina 25 and a cat30- sometimes alone sometimes with crew. if you leave at high tide you you can ride the current all the way down the hudson and get the current going up the east river. nothing tricky about navigaton with a chart or chart plotter. got to watch for all the ferries, water taxis and other boat traffice at the battery. Hells Gate was not a problem as you fly up the east river with the current at 8-9 knots over the bottom. trip takes about 8-10 hours. used about 10 gallons of fuel or less with the outboard on the cat25- but always took any extra tank just in case.
I have a sister that lives just off the water in Conn. and we would like to do the Erie Canal, then down the Hudson and up into Long Island Sound at some point (May/Jun 2011 maybe), so this thread and the other one really interest us.
Now saying and considering we have no experience with tides I'll ask a couple dumb questions, so bear with me
.I can see where if the tide is going out, like you mentioned, that it will help carry you down the Hudson. My question is going through Hell's Gate if the tide is going out which way is the current going? SW to NE or the other way around.
I'm thinking that the Long Island Sound water is trying to get out to the Atlantic proper and it would be going from the sound down the East River (NE to SW) and past Liberty and out. Is that right?
If I'm reading your suggestion right, you are going down the Hudson with the tide going out and then up the East River to the sound with the tide coming in. Is that right?
We will be in Florida next fall hopefully and will get a little tide experience down there, but it seems a lot more straight forward down there than what is going on around NYC.
Thanks guys for all the suggestions and I would be interested in the Marina name in Jersey if you have it,
Sum and Ruth
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
Our Mac Pages
Mac Links
Last edited:
Which way the currents
Good question, Sum. Same things happen in, say, British Columbia, where this huge rock, called Vancouver Island, sits smack dab in the middle. The currents move in AROUND the island, so your question essentially is: What's comin' and what's goin' in any particular place, i.e., ebbs and floods.
The only answer is the tide and current tables for the specific area.
Perhaps an easy answer for Hell Gate from "a local" would be to define ebb and flood AT the Gate, 'cuz you're right, the definition of ebb & flood at the south end of the East River MAY be different than it's north end (and time would be too), as well as the entirety of Long Island Sound.
Gee, Long Island is just like Vancouver Island, only hotter in the summer!
I'd love to know, too, 'cuz I lived there for many years before gettign into boating.
A link to a website would be helpful, too.
Good question, Sum. Same things happen in, say, British Columbia, where this huge rock, called Vancouver Island, sits smack dab in the middle. The currents move in AROUND the island, so your question essentially is: What's comin' and what's goin' in any particular place, i.e., ebbs and floods.
The only answer is the tide and current tables for the specific area.
Perhaps an easy answer for Hell Gate from "a local" would be to define ebb and flood AT the Gate, 'cuz you're right, the definition of ebb & flood at the south end of the East River MAY be different than it's north end (and time would be too), as well as the entirety of Long Island Sound.
Gee, Long Island is just like Vancouver Island, only hotter in the summer!
I'd love to know, too, 'cuz I lived there for many years before gettign into boating.
A link to a website would be helpful, too.
Yes. The river flows both ways all the way up to Albany and is considered an estuary. Ebb tide is almost always stronger then flood as you would expect for a river. Navigating against the current in the Hudson can cost you up to 2 1/2 knots but usually less.
Stu is correct of course about the currents being dynamic. The flood at the Battery starts before the ebb in the East River is done. 2 hours later the entire East River is flooding NE into LI Sound. And yes Sum, the current in the East River is either NE or SW. The best way to visualize this is with the current charts for NY Harbor & LI Sound that are found in the Eldridge manual (even an old copy will still inform) which show the current speeds for every hour of the flood and ebb. I couldn't find a similar reference on line but here is a link for the Eldridge: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|9489|38715|803256&id=1303801
I have gone around Manhattan a few times and concur with what others have posted. Coming from Stonypoint I would stop for the night at Liberty Landing Marina: http://www.libertylandingmarina.com/marina/rates.php If you do it before May 15th the slip rate is $2.50/ft and $4/ft afterwards. The next day head up the East River 2 hours after high tide at 'The Battery' and you will be surprised how fast you reach the LI Sound.
It is really a fun trip but I can't stress how useful the Eldridge (or equivalent) Tide & Pilot book is when planning a trip like this.
Enjoy.
Thanks for the info and we will order that. For $13 it would be crazy not to
. I see that it covers the east coast to Florida, but can't find out if it goes down the Keys and if it covers Florida's west and pan handle also?We have the tide on the GPS, but I think the chart would be easier to use and it doesn't require batteries
,Sum
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
Our Mac Pages
Mac Links
Sum,
The furthest south the Eldridge covers is Miami Harbor then all the way up to Maine. There must be some other guides to use for the Keys and the west coast of FL.
As I understand it the Gulf of Mexico has only a slight tidal range due to the fact that it is an enclosed basin. Ocean tides of 2' - 3' affect the east coast like clockwork if there is no local wind event that might over ride the effect of the ocean tide. If we get a NE storm up here for a few days the tide predictions are of little use as the water can get piled up in LI Sound causing deviation from the norm in the currents in the East River. I suspect that wind events on the Gulf are also the big 'tide' movers.
Still the Eldridge (or equivalent) has some great information in it besides tide tables and current charts; there is a lunar phases chart and several interesting written tidbits worth reading.
The furthest south the Eldridge covers is Miami Harbor then all the way up to Maine. There must be some other guides to use for the Keys and the west coast of FL.
As I understand it the Gulf of Mexico has only a slight tidal range due to the fact that it is an enclosed basin. Ocean tides of 2' - 3' affect the east coast like clockwork if there is no local wind event that might over ride the effect of the ocean tide. If we get a NE storm up here for a few days the tide predictions are of little use as the water can get piled up in LI Sound causing deviation from the norm in the currents in the East River. I suspect that wind events on the Gulf are also the big 'tide' movers.
Still the Eldridge (or equivalent) has some great information in it besides tide tables and current charts; there is a lunar phases chart and several interesting written tidbits worth reading.
Thanks, I'll keep looking for Florida info. I know the guys posting about going in and out on the west coast talk about doing it with the tide there also and I've looked at the tides on the GPS for locations there. Like you said though the tides are not real high.
We had hoped to do the Erie, Hudson and Long Island Sound this summer, but we ran out of time and money to do it and Florida in the Fall, so it is going to have to wait a year, but we look forward to the trip. You guys are giving us some good info. From Albany to Conn. has me the most worried looking at the charts and anchoring possibilites at night. A lot more complicated than what we have been use to on our trips so far,
Sum
Sum,
Yes, the expected tidal ranges in the Gulf are pretty small and around 1' or so compared to ocean tides of 2' - 3'. Even so the high and low tides in the Gulf will create currents around the barrier islands.
Regarding the Hudson from Albany on south to CT, it is not so difficult as plan A is to find a guest or 'transient' mooring or a slip and plan B would be to anchor out. The worry of anchoring in the river at night is that the changing current can cause your anchor to work loose and then there is the commercial traffic. You could break the Hudson up into about 3 fairly even chunks with a destination in mind each night. Our club in Nyack (lower Hudson) has transient moorings that are $25/night - which is cheap for this neck of the woods. We can chat more about this when you decide to take that plunge though.
Have fun in FL.
Yes, the expected tidal ranges in the Gulf are pretty small and around 1' or so compared to ocean tides of 2' - 3'. Even so the high and low tides in the Gulf will create currents around the barrier islands.
Regarding the Hudson from Albany on south to CT, it is not so difficult as plan A is to find a guest or 'transient' mooring or a slip and plan B would be to anchor out. The worry of anchoring in the river at night is that the changing current can cause your anchor to work loose and then there is the commercial traffic. You could break the Hudson up into about 3 fairly even chunks with a destination in mind each night. Our club in Nyack (lower Hudson) has transient moorings that are $25/night - which is cheap for this neck of the woods. We can chat more about this when you decide to take that plunge though.
Have fun in FL.
I'm sure you're aware of the difference between tides and currents. And not the just basic definition of height vs horizontal speed.We have the tide on the GPS, but I think the chart would be easier to use and it doesn't require batteries
What I am referring to is the TIME DIFFERENCE between tides & currents. Max and min currents can runs hours before or after highest and lowest tides.
Relying on your GPS tide information for currents could make you miss a max or slack current, big time. That's why NOAA publishes both tide (heights) and current (speeds) in tables and curves. Note that the times of max for each are quite different at exactly the same point geographically.
Narrow necks in tidal areas can have vastly more powerful speeds than the same tidal range on more open areas of the same body of water. Which is essentially what Hell Gate is, a narrow neck, compared to LI Sound and even the width of the East River.
However, running down a single source river from high tide downstream is helpful because you're a cork floating on the highest water, which is gonna be lower later, so you "get the flushing action" and the current speed doesn't matter.
For instance, when I'm coming downriver from say Sacramento, here in California, I leave on the highest tide and run downriver, caring naught for the current speed 'cuz all I care about it that it's going the same direction than we are. It could get stronger in narrower reaches and slower in wider spots, but it's going in my direction.
However, when I get to San Francisco Bay, the currents, not following the tide, are what I really need, because the currents literally split in half right in the middle of the Bay, where the flood sets north and also south from that center line. I could care less about the height of the tide when I need to deal with the currents.
When I get to my anchorage is when I revert back to tide height as an issue.
Given that, unless I'm on a river here, the ONLY information I need to know are the currents. Tidal height and time means nothing to me when I'm trying to go through the Golden Gate, ONLY the currents, their time and speed are important information.
We get mini-books that are about the size of two business cards put together for free from our chandleries that give hour-by-hour tables for both the tidal and current information, plus those charts showing direction and relative speeds. It's the most useful little book I have on board: the boat, the car and in the house.
It's also called "The Most Misunderstood Book in Town!"
I learned something about that when the carrier I was on was in dry dock in Bremerton, WA and I would go to this bridge over the inlet to Dyes Inlet and watch the tide go in and out or more correctly the current generated. I swore that someone could of hooked a line to the bridge and gotten up on water skies at times. It wasn't quite that fast, but it sure looked it.I'm sure you're aware of the difference between tides and currents. And not the just basic definition of height vs horizontal speed......
I guess the other thing you have to watch for is you had better keep us some speed when you are running with the tide or you could loose steerage and be that cork you mentioned out of control, but still moving along. I learned that running rivers in a canoe.
I'm excited about getting on the ocean as we will have a lot to learn there for sure. Appreciate all of the comments,
Sum
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
Our Mac Pages
Mac Links
Yes, $25 a night would be better than anchoring out even though that is all we have done to this point, but we have never been in a place with traffic like that. I'm copying all of this to a text document for future reference and if I can find that document later :cry: I'll be contacting you.
One thing is that we shouldn't be on a time schedule, so would probably take more than 3 days to do the Hudson, but still that is good info.
Thanks,
Sum and Ruth
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
Our Mac Pages
Mac Links
Sum, this is exactly where the "I don't need no stinkin' paddlewheel knotmeter on my boat, I got my trusty GPS!" guys and I really part ways.
As you describe it, you're right IF you're not propelling your boat in some manner, like the cork. If under propulsion, you are simply dealing with your speed through the water STW PLUS or MINUS the current to give you speed over ground SOG.
But that's the same as if you turned your engine off and drifted with no current. With no wind you'd go nowhere. In current, you'd just move along with it, albeit with no control.
Regardless of how fast the current is going, as long as you have way on, like sails or an engine, the movement of the water doesn't care one iota about how fast IT may be going. You are still moving through the water with your means of propulsion, regardless of where the water is going.
The current could be going 2 knots, but if your STW is 5, you could be going either 7 or 3, depending on which way you are going, with or against the current.
Only a canoe when NOT paddling, or a boat with NO propulsion, would act like the cork.
This is, of course, not true when going over Niagra Falls and the like.:naughty:
Ya wanna go somewhere, either sail or motor, regardless of the current. Always fun, eh?
Last edited:
This is one of the few safe anchorage areas I know of on the Hudson near us: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=Bowline Point, NY&aql=&oq=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl
The little bay behind Bowline Point park just south of Haverstraw. I hear it is best to enter it by heading into it while facing NW but in a M26 S you should have no problems.
The little bay behind Bowline Point park just south of Haverstraw. I hear it is best to enter it by heading into it while facing NW but in a M26 S you should have no problems.
- Status