Sticky main furler

Feb 18, 2019
12
Benetau 461 Bremerton
The main sail furler on my Benetau 461 (2000) is causing me lots of problems. On some videos I have seen people unfurling their main by just releasing the furler line and perhaps a bit of wind - I have to use a winch and still get stuck when just a third of the main is out. Even my winch cannot hope. I then go and pull and shake at the sail to loosen it some more (assuming the weather is OK). Stronger winds make it easier to unfurl but I am not blessed with such constancy. At first I thought that the problem was higher up the mast but noticed that at least at times just pulling at the foot edge of the main unfurls it as if the problem was with the bottom of the furler. I bought the boat as used and see that someone left instructions to never furl or unfurl without keeping tension on the opposite line. I do it religiously. The problem is still there. I checked the bend in the mast - it's about 2-3" off straight line half-way up the mast. Can that account for the problem? Are there any common issues I should be looking for? Thanks in advance - I found replies to my earlier questions immensely valuable.
 
May 17, 2004
5,028
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
If the main is original from 2000 (or even half that age) it may be getting stretched out and too baggy in the center to furl nicely. A sailmaker may be able to evaluate that and see if it could be flattened a bit. When unfurling try pointing nearly into the wind and using the outhaul line to pull the sail, rather than using the wind to pull it out. If it jams try furling it back in a foot or so then out again.
 
Apr 27, 2010
966
Beneteau 352 Hull #276 Ontario
If you do a search here on this site as there has been many a discussion on main furling.
If ;as you say, you can unfurl by pulling on the foot of the sail then there is too much friction on the outhaul.
Check the outhaul car on the boom, the sheave at the end of the boom .
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
The problem may be that problem originates when you are furling the sail in, and that subsequently makes unfurling difficult.

First of all, what model and brand of furling mast do you have? You should find out and than read and follow furling directions from the mast manufacturer. How you do it makes a difference.

1) before furling (or unfurling), release the vang and mainsheet to allow the boom to rise to form a less than 90 degree angle with the mast.

The foot of the sail should be cut so it’s about about 85 degrees to the luff. During furling, the boom should be raised to be at to match, at about 85 degrees from the mast. This will cause the foot of the mainsail to wrap around itself inside the mast so that each wrap is a little bit higher than the last one. This minimizes the diameter of the cloth at bottom of the wrap. If the diameter is too large it will bind inside the mast and produce friction,

2) if the entry slot In the mast is offset to one side, confirm that you have rolled the sail in the correct direction around the mast, counter clockwise or clockwise. It should not be folded back on itself as you roll it up. That produces friction.

There are more things to consider, but your description suggests that one of the above is applicable. Try following these two instructions and then report back please.

And don’t forget to tell us which mast you have, so we can offer better advice.

Judy
Retired sailmaker
 
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NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,048
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Great points above..... Do you have Neil Pryde Sails?? They have a great video showing how to furl/unfurl. Once I figured out the boom angle my main goes in and comes out with ease. Also, no pre-bend in the mast..... Are you flushing the unit inside the mast when you get back from sailing? Additionally you should be spraying the bearings with a McLude type spray to keep things moving. Like all other moving parts must keep them clean in these harsh environments. Don't get discouraged.....

Good Luck
Greg
 
Feb 21, 2013
4,638
Hunter 46 Point Richmond, CA
According to page 32 in the manual in the link below you have a Z Spar Z901 furling mast. Pages 14 - 16 of the operation manual attached may provide some guidance on furling the sail in and out.

https://dicksimonyachts.com/Brochures/Beneteau/Oceanis-461/461-Owners-Manual.pdf

I find the the key to unfurling and furling the sail without it getting stuck in the mast is to keep the sail tight in the mast during furling operation to avoid it fluffing / bunching up in the mast with the boom vang and main sheet released so the leach has little or no tension. This is particularly important for a partial battened main sail and I have both. My Hunter 46 Selden furling mast furler drum rotates clockwise during furl out and visa versa during furl in. This requires a slight starboard tack and tension on the outhaul or furler in line during furling operation to keep the sail tight in the mast. Unfurl out by winching the outhaul line out while maintaining slight tension on the furl in line. Furler in by winching the furler in line while maintaining slight tension on the outhaul.
 

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Feb 18, 2019
12
Benetau 461 Bremerton
Thanks for all your comments. Seems like my issues were: boom angle and insufficient tension when furling. Once I got the boom lift to the 85deg angle, kept a steady tension when furling while on starboard tack, I am able to both furl and unfurl without using winches (except for final tension on unfurling). This forum is invaluable! Thanks.
 
Feb 18, 2019
12
Benetau 461 Bremerton
Yes, I saw the video. That made me wonder that perhaps using winches for the operation is somewhat excessive! :) Thanks!
 

twx

.
Jan 20, 2013
17
Beneteau 40cc Clear Lake Shores
Great answers and you may be satisfied however, my 40CC main furling gear sits on a cartridge of bearings, (prob not the best description), I had this replaced and service it annually and got improvement. Just a thought.
 
Jun 24, 2014
45
Beneteau 461 Kent Narrows, MD
I have the same 2000 Beneteau 461 with the very same problem with the in-mast furling. I wish Beneteau would offer a straight mast for boats with in-mast main sail. My main stops 1/3 up the mast. The foot is loose but the top is stuck. I can see the sail bunched up in the slot to come out. Normally moving it back in for a few inches, sometimes 3 times makes it eventually come out.
Problem started when I had the main halyard replaced (by a prof. rigger never the less). I also had the sail re-shaped by North Sail. I am not exactly sure what they did, but it did not help. If the halyard tension is too tight or too loose the sail will bunch up when pulled out.
After looking at some U-tube videos on the subject I found that when furling-in there should not be too much tension on the outhaul line. Also using it daily makes things go smoother. "Use it or loose it"
I like all the answers, heading in the wind slightly on starboard tack! I will try raising the boom to 85degree !
I use my electric winch to pull-out the sail but tap it only, not hold the button continuously, seems to help ?!
Like I said before if the sail will not come out at all try loosing the halyard a couple of inches.. it helped me.
Keep us posted if you find the "Holy Grail" to this annoying problem.
Thank you s/v Belvedere
 
Jun 24, 2014
45
Beneteau 461 Kent Narrows, MD
I had the broken boom car replaced by US Spars. But now they replaced the roller bearings with 1" roller ?! They are much noisier and don't slide as easy. Bad choice..! I wish I could get back the older version boom car.
 

Mark Q

.
Apr 19, 2018
7
Beneteau 323 Orange Beach
I've struggled with the same problem on my 2004 Beneteau 323 which has Neil Pryde sails. My feeling is that once you get it working, it can be pretty trouble-free though I've had enough problems that I still get chills at the prospect of furling and unfurling. Make sure the mechanism is lubricated as indicated in the videos (
), but having said that, mine never comes out as easily as in the videos.

The only thing I have to add is WHY it is super important to ensure your lines can run free. If they don't, you will prevent parts of what is essentially a cylinder in the mast from turning, thus introducing twist and possibly a crease that you will have trouble pulling through the slot.

Don't give up. It is infinitely reefable and creates a nice clean system. Like in the videos, practice and get the bugs out on a nice calm day at the dock. Easier to deal with problems there than out on the water.
 
Dec 31, 2016
319
Beneteau Oceanis 351 Charlottetown
If you don't keep tension on your outhaul when you are furling, the sail will bunch, usually half way up, or higher. That being said I just installed a new Neil Pryde sail and it works flawlessly!
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
The foot of the sail should be cut so it’s about about 85 degrees to the luff
:plus::plus::plus:
It is the cut of your sail that makes the difference.
NewFurling.jpg

I did this picture to show my Sail was cut about 86° angle and had to lift the boom ≈ 4°.
Also on that picture, I drew a purple line from mast top and an orange line from deck to show prebend.
The prebend compensates for the headsail pull.
Jim...

PS: Correction by @DrJudyB in her post below for my H430.
 
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Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
@JamesG161

I think there's an error in the method you used to estimate the foot angle on your mainsail. Perhaps you didn't compensate for foot round. but there could be a different explanation. If you try it again with the sail all the way out, Ill bet you a beer that the boom angle is around 85-87 degrees.

:beer:
I win a lot of virtual beers via bets on sailboatowners.com. :biggrin:

The angle of the boom (and the tack angle on the sail) forms an 86 degree angle on your H430. Take a look at the sailplan drawing in the owners' manual.

https://www.marlow-hunter.com/wp-content/export/Owners-Manuals/430 Owners Manual Complete .pdf

We built a ton of mainsails for in-mast furling, to fit rigs from Selden, Zspar, Charleston Spar, etc. I can assure you that not a single one had a tack angle that was even close to 80 degrees.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I think there's an error in the method you used to estimate the foot angle on your mainsail
Mine boom angle is set at about 7° as shown in the picture, but I responded with that picture for many to use.
So you will win that beer. Hic hic hic...:beer:

But I did that to show why prebend in my ZSPARS mast does NOT foul a new main.

My annual problem is "mud daubers" deciding my furling is a nice home. As a matter of fact we got them "broken" up on Saturday sail. Pain in butt, but water flushing them doesn't work on them.
___
You were POINT on about the Sail Cut!!!!!

Just thought my pictogram might help with why the boom is raised up.

Also there has been an argument about prebend. I still have an inch space when furled in my mast with prebend.
Jim...
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Also you were CORRECT on letting your boom "float" when furling or unfurling.
1) Release the Vang
2) Release the main sheets
3) Release the boom lift, if you use one.

That lets the Boom "float" and not force the foot.

Jim...

PS: We got stuck about 4 foot out on Saturday. Took the Admirals advice, and loosened the outhaul and furling lines. Once the wind got the main, mud dauber nest broke free and out came the main!!:pimp:
 
Jun 24, 2014
45
Beneteau 461 Kent Narrows, MD
James G161,
to suggestion 3) Release Boom Lift... do you mean Topping Lift?
I thought the idea is to raise the boom 10-12degree to match the ~85 degree foot of the main cut?
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
3) Release Boom Lift... do you mean Topping Lift?
I meant Boom lift line on my boat. I set mine as shown in the picture, always there.
I really never use mine, but the Previous Owner used it to act like a hoist and lower the deck inflatable dinghy in the water.;)

If you call it a "topping lift" then I am ok with that term.

Once you set your angle, like I do, and do steps 1 and 2 then the Boom "floats" and you can't force the foot of the sail to wrap incorrectly.

My boom vang holds the boom down.
Jim...
 
Dec 14, 2018
48
Ericson/ Hunter Ericson 29 / Hunter 376 Pensacola, FL
Last trip out the tack webbing and End of the luff tape pulled through the slot in the mast. The tack webbing for some reason was twisted a round and a half or more when the sail was installed. This was wedged in the slot and was difficult to push back in.
I think the halyard may be a little loose, on this site or somewhere else I read that Beneteau had a similar issue, they installed a section of sailtrack for the bottom of the sail luff and extending the luff tape to the bottom of the sail on new boats, they also used a retrofit a double sided Velcro strap wrapped three times around the furled and tack webbing this is to keep the tack close to the fuller and give a smooth start to the wrap. I plan on trying the Velcro wrap and continue to try to find the proper set up.
A lowering of the boom helped ( was set very high by previous owner). Hoping to remove some prebend and continue from there, ( I know the B&R mast has to have some prebend) .