Sticky ball valves

[unhinged schoolboy]

Anyone ever close thru hull ball valve and disconnect hose and then douse ball valve with penetrating oil.....maybe fill hose with it and then reconnect hose and clamps...then exercise the carp out of it?

Did it wor

 

[unhinged schoolboy]

Pesky carp

 

[agprice22]

No, but I bet if you change the title of this to “Sticky Balls,” you would get a lot of views!
I do wonder if there are any lubricants you could use on your ball valaves that could erode them? Maybe people here will know? Do you know what material the seals and balls are made of?

 

[Rich Stidger]

I had my worst operating ball valve at home and I soaked it with Marvel Mystery Oil. Now it works perfectly and is the easiest working one on my boat. But it took several weeks.

 

[31seahorse]

Hello unhinged schoolboy,
I can believe your lubrication plan would help the valves move more freely if the process were performed while the boat was out of the water. However, (1) if the boat were in the water the opening of the valve would admit water if the valve is below the waterline. That would wash back the oil you put into the tube or valve. (2) You might want to use an oil like vegetable oil or mineral oil. Mineral oil is sometimes used in the head to clean and lubricate the inside of that equipment. (3) If you work at the clamps and hoses you would have a wonderful opportunity to change those parts that may have been in place for long enough to make the ball valves "sticky". (4) There will probably be a noticeable sheen on the water's surface as the lubrication is eventually washed out. Finally, (5) If the valves are not operating smoothly it might be time to change them due to seal damage or corrosion that are unseen.

 

[jviss]

My boat has ball valves at the through-hulls, too. There are at least two sizes, "big ones," like maybe 1.5", and small ones, like an inch or less. The small ones move pretty easily, the big ones are very tough to actuate.

I wish there was a port for injecting some kind of lube. Is the only solution to remove the hose and will it with penetrating oil? Or take it home, as @Rich Stidger has done?

What is it that makes them sticky? Lack of lube, or mineral deposits?

Thanks,

jv

 

[kloudie1]

The real trick is to get the lube between the ball and the valve body.. most easily done with the boat out of the water, unfortunately. Open/close the ball a bit, (about half way) and get a good persistent grease, like lithium "waterproof" grease in the space between the ball and body.. on both ends of the valve.. That sort of captures the grease in the cavity when the valve is fully open or fully closed.. The valve stem penetration should be lubed with a penetrating oil but not a solvent stuff like PB Blaster.. Probably could be done in the water by using a big stopper in the thru-hull on the outside so you could take off the hose with the valve open.. but I've never tried that..

 

[CrispyCringle]

Easy DIY article on this topic: https://stingysailor.com/2015/05/09/the-complete-beginners-guide-to-ball-valve-maintenance-2/

 

[unhinged schoolboy]

I saw ball valves with grease zerks...they may be 2' though.....I'll look again. Sheen on the water problemos, best use a hydraulic fluid used on dredges that are vegetable based in order to have a quick answer for some harbor cop sniffing around.
I could dive the through hulls and insert wooden plugs and pray to Neptune's mother for enough head pressure to keep them from coming out whilest tinkering with replacing valves. I have 6 of them and they all are ..."stiff"...(stiff was for agprice22's amazement), so, hauling her out and biting the bullet and replacing all the valves may be in order too...rather costly. However, 400 miles out I may sleep better if she was buttoned up real good with new valves free of....."hair" and other debris.

 

[unhinged schoolboy]

Sea "cocks'...with grease zerks.....found them. I think this is the way to go fellows, replace them all and be done with it.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/groc...ball-valves-ibv-series--P06601405?recordNum=1

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Marelon makes a lube specific for their valves

Les

 

[The Shadow Knows]

Unhinged,

I'm alittle late coming in but, I didn't see where you mentioned the valve material.
Was it bronze, steel, Stainless a poly-something or PVC?

I have a mechanical piping background & I can only say that I hate gate valves.
They are NOT a positive shutoff valve, they will leak when the bonnet packing fails
& if they freeze up trying to open or close, the stem may also break & you will
be stuck in that position. Metal-wise, they may corrode because of stray current,
salt water mix and/or metal deterioration.

All of my thruhull valves a Delrin valves. They do not corrode in saltwater, build up marine growth
or, prone to electrolysis.

Of course in high temp processes, a metal valve may be the only choice however,
I have very few metal valves onboard. Talk to a piping engineer & he will say the same.

 

[JamesG161]

All of my thruhull valves a Delrin valves

Do not use Clorox or Muratic acid to clean the Delrin valves.
______
I have changed one valve while on the water.
I got the exact same as type for replacement, had a Peg ready to drive in the spot, opened the new valve, apprehensively watched as my son-in-laws unscrew the old valve, quickly screwed in the new valve, a few threaded turns [geyser started], close the new valve 50%, threaded it in place tight, and then finally close the new valve.

That procedure put about 1 gallon of water in my bilge.

But it took about an hour for my Blood pressure to go back to normal.
Jim...

 

[The Shadow Knows]

James,

What type valve was the changeout for? What type valve did you replace it with?
If what you had failed on-the water, maybe you should look for a better valve pal.

Remember, you'll never save money by being a boat owner.
Actually, it's just the opposite.........
The saying is, "As a successful boat owner, one need to have deep pockets & a short memory."

 

[JamesG161]

What type valve was the changeout for? What type valve did you replace it with?

It was a 16 year of service Apollo bronze and was on the AC water sea cock.

The Apollo can be rebuilt or adjusted. Nice design, however the cost of a new valve versus rebuild is insignificant.

You can adjust the packing on the stem and even the Pressure on the Teflon ball, while installed. So if you find it sticking, you can free it up then retighten.

I have only one problem with Delrin on my boat, the backing stress plate on my boat is a simple plywood disc and you can put a lot of "hose bend" and hand stress on non metal valve.

I plan to change all of my sea cocks next year when it will be on the hard. I will explore the Delrin valves then.
Jim..

 

[The Shadow Knows]

J,

If in saltwater or fresh, look into the Marelon ball valves.
I've used them for 12 years with nary a problem.

Metal valves have inherent problems what with salt, stray current & corrosion.
They are also built heavy duty in body......just to give you an idea:

https://www.ebay.com/bhp/forespar-marelon

 

[JamesG161]

I worked for DuPont. Delrin is one of their products.
I use many polymer type materials and is normally cheaper overall when considering maintenance and reliability.
Three things that worry me about polymers
1) Stress and pressure rating at operating temperatures
2) When they fail, they fail catastrophically
3) Threading is not normally very good to prevent leaking.

If I could afford it, my material of construction for sailing would be...

TITANIUM

The hell with bronze and stainless.
Guess what?
No Zinc anodes needed.
Jim...

PS: You can over tighten polymer threads.

 

[The Shadow Knows]

J,

What I posted, was primarily for lower-pressure and/or suction valves & their functions.
Most thruhull valves are in suction and/or under light pressure while under way over water.
I have never had pressure or threading problems with softer than metal threaded valves.
They say no thread tape is needed however, I still use it for all my valves, after all, it can't hurt.

When threading 2 dissimilar materials, I start out making sure they are vertically parallel to the threaded fitting
I want to screw into. Then slowly, I turn counter-clockwise without applying pressure when threading.
When I feel the counter-clockwise click, the threads should now be aligned. I then tighten but, I do
not over tighten (using tape, I don't have to). I use this method for anything with threads that I wish to
attach to for both metal or plastic, be it valves screws etc. etc.

If your thruhull fitting is metal yea, doing it the wrong way can & may ruin the Marlon/Delrin (softer) threads.
After all, it all just comes down to using the correct technique for attaching/tightening.

ps: I wish that if I could afford Titanium, I'd would have a complete Titanium boat.....with no fiberglass at all.

 

[agprice22]

hauling her out and biting the bullet and replacing all the valves may be in order too...rather costly. However, 400 miles out I may sleep better if she was buttoned up real good with new valves free of....."hair" and other debris.

When is your next scheduled haul out? Why mess with this now? Sometimes, if it is not a problem, do not “fix” it! At least until you are not risking sinking your ship!

 

[JamesG161]

What I posted, was primarily for lower-pressure and/or suction valves & their functions.

I understood and thought the use Delrin valves was a good suggestion by you.
___

They say no thread tape is needed

Teflon® thread tape was design for anti-thread seizing, a major problem for Stainless Steel. The heat build up on tension tightening of the SS thread, could seize [ mechanic's term "freeze"] the thread and not be undone.
Teflon@ Tape reduces the friction heat.
Today most people will use it on plastics too. I don't.

I will end it there, since I don't want to hijack the thread.

After all, it all just comes down to using the correct technique for attaching/tightening.

Right on target!
As a fact, with all threaded connection, it is the TENSION caused by the thread to thread tightening that stops leaks.
However sometimes, we can't get the required tension to stop leaks and need a sealing gasket, O-Ring, or other compression type seals. A home/boat type garden hose threads is the classic example of dibbling leaks with hand tightened connections, that needs a gasket.
_____

Careful with all final torque/tensioning, plastics or metals. [ I wonder why we have torque wrenches]
Jim...

PS: When kloudie1 likes your post, he is a mechanical engineer and knows.