Stern Windows

[Meriachee]

The point being that a blanket statement cannot apply. Failure of a keel retainer bolt happens for one of three reasons; (and yes I get that there can be a lot more) The bolt is all corroded from 20 years of inattention, the bolt has a manufacturing defect, or the bolt has un-repaired damage of some kind.
I owned a swing keel Mac26c for 15 years and the only time something broke was every time the thing was pushed past it's limits. That boat could run circles around virtually everybody else in the right conditions, but it had to be sailed to it's advantage. Go outside that envelope and you'd be looking at swim ladders all day.

 

[Simon Sexton]

I would also like to see you trust the same design that killed your best frien

Do you think there is anything that ties the performance and capability of that Pogo lifting keel to one used on a Mac25?

Finot designed boats (Pogo, First, etc) uses a deep, high aspect foil that is controlled by a hydraulic ram. The foil is SS and fiberglass, with a lead foot for very low CG. It is also fused so in a hard grounding, it releases to avoid damage. If you run up on sand, you simply raise the keel and sail away. The ram hold it in place all other times. It allows a very deep keel for excellent pointing, with the ability to retract for motoring into shoal areas. In addition, the keel box creates an immensely strong 3-dimensional structure to hold the keel to the boat. The whole setup add cost and complexity, but is very reliable and very much gives the best of both world.

View attachment 145379

No, sir; in fact, I had no idea that this Pogo keel even existed, nor have I ever seen this diagram. Seeing as this is different, I actually quite like the idea, but call me old fashioned I'm a HUGE fan of the old full length keels and such!

 

[Meriachee]

Do you think there is anything that ties the performance and capability of that Pogo lifting keel to one used on a Mac25?

The similarity is the pivot pin design, and, even on a Pogo anything (and they should be keel hauled if they let let happen) without proper maintenance, the keel could fall off that boat too.

 

[Simon Sexton]

The point being that a blanket statement cannot apply. Failure of a keel retainer bolt happens for one of three reasons; (and yes I get that there can be a lot more) The bolt is all corroded from 20 years of inattention, the bolt has a manufacturing defect, or the bolt has un-repaired damage of some kind.
I owned a swing keel Mac26c for 15 years and the only time something broke was every time the thing was pushed past it's limits. That boat could run circles around virtually everybody else in the right conditions, but it had to be sailed to it's advantage. Go outside that envelope and you'd be looking at swim ladders all day.

Well then it must have been one of those things; I don't exactly know what happened, but once you lose a close friend to something, it becomes difficult to trust it for a long time.

 

[Meriachee]

I would also like to see you trust the same design that killed your best frien

I get it, but the design cannot be held accountable. Something caused that keel to fall off.

 

[Simon Sexton]

I get it, but the design cannot be held accountable. Something caused that keel to fall off.

......I didn't mean for that quote to post....but, yes, I understand...

 

[Jackdaw]

Let's not confuse a 'product feature' with its design and construction. Some early USA-based swing keels were terrible in both design and construction, and worthy of being avoided. But to paint them all with a single brush is wrong. Newer, highly engineered systems are frankly fabulous. The Pogo comes with either a standard bolt-on keel, or the lifting. I'll take the lifting every time.

 

[Simon Sexton]

Let's not confuse a 'product feature' with its design and construction. Some early USA-based swing keels were terrible in both design and construction, and worthy of being avoided. But to paint them all with a single brush is wrong. Newer, highly engineered systems are frankly fabulous. The Pogo comes with either a standard bolt-on keel, or the lifting. I'll take the lifting every time.

I agree with that, sir.

 

[Jackdaw]

No, sir; in fact, I had no idea that this Pogo keel even existed, nor have I ever seen this diagram. Seeing as this is different, I actually quite like the idea, but call me old fashioned I'm a HUGE fan of the old full length keels and such!

And you talk about a boat that won't point! ;^)

 

[Meriachee]

The ability to put an 18" draft close to the beach in a crowded anchorage is not unlike having the whole anchorage to yourself. And there's certainly something to be said about leaving last from the anchorage and planing past everybody on the way to the next one.

 

[Simon Sexton]

And you talk about a boat that won't point! ;^)

Just as well, sir, I have different preferences for different types of races, one could say! ;P

 

[CaptKimble]

and what the heck did all of that have to do with stern windows?...LOL*

 

[Jackdaw]

The ability to put an 18" draft close to the beach in a crowded anchorage is not unlike having the whole anchorage to yourself. And there's certainly something to be said about leaving last from the anchorage and planing past everybody on the way to the next one.

Been there, done that. ;^)

Here's the Pogo 12.5 with TEN FEET of sailing draft, pulling its nose up onto the sand for lunch.

 

[Meriachee]

Been there, done that. ;^)

Will you stop it fer cryinoutloud! I can't afford the 30 already!

 

[Meriachee]

and what the heck did all of that have to do with stern windows?...LOL*

Windows can fail too.

 

[Simon Sexton]

and what the heck did all of that have to do with stern windows?...LOL*

I'm not quite sure, but I'll be saying nothing more about swing keels in any threads, THAT'S for sure...

 

[Meriachee]

Bah. It's all relative.

 

[Jackdaw]

and what the heck did all of that have to do with stern windows?...LOL*

Who says the boat we're discussing doesn't have stern windows????

 

[Meriachee]

Dad! He's doing it again.

 

[sailnoproblem]

I swear Jackdaw is a Pogo rep.