stepping the mast using a gin pole???

[flynfol]

If you make yourself some bridles, that repositions your pivot point for the temp stays which minimizes tension changes as the mast goes up and down. You can probably google mast raising bridles. Relatively easy to make. I attached mine to existing hardware as there are already too many holes in the deck waiting to allow water to enter and with this small of a deck didn't need anymore obstacles. Again, sorry I can't post pics from this IPad. Look in the archives..........they are in there.

 

[timebandit]

I knew I had it somewhere-----------------

http://sites.google.com/site/mac22valentina/mods

near the bottom

 

[Justin_NSA]

are these instructions for the mac21?

Sorry, your question got buried. This was for the 26 but the idea is the same. You want freedom of movement with minimum slack. Assuming no slack in the mast up position; more forward deck attachment would make them too tight as the mast lowers. Further aft and they they won't "kick in" as soon.

 

[Doug J]

Sorry, your question got buried. This was for the 26 but the idea is the same. You want freedom of movement with minimum slack. Assuming no slack in the mast up position; more forward deck attachment would make them too tight as the mast lowers. Further aft and they they won't "kick in" as soon.

Hmmm, unless I misunderstood your statement... Mine I believe are factory installed. When the mast is attached at the base, but laying down, the stays are tight, when up they go slack. Same as pic's posted on this thread by MrBill and Sum.

While raising the mast, there is considerable side-to-side movement, but 3/4 of the way up, the shrouds take over. By the time it's all the way, the baby stays are quite slack, as seen in this pic. I just leave them in place.

 

[Sumner]

.. Assuming no slack in the mast up position; more forward deck attachment would make them too tight as the mast lowers...

Since they have the eye-straps a little forward to also be used with the pop-top cover what you described above is the case with us. I just need to remember to leave a little slack in the baby stays when we go to lower the mast,

Sum

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[Justin_NSA]

Hmmm, unless I misunderstood your statement... Mine I believe are factory installed. When the mast is attached at the base, but laying down, the stays are tight, when up they go slack. Same as pic's posted on this thread by MrBill and Sum.

While raising the mast, there is considerable side-to-side movement, but 3/4 of the way up, the shrouds take over. By the time it's all the way, the baby stays are quite slack, as seen in this pic. I just leave them in place.

The deck fittings would have to be forward of the mast for that to be the case wouldn't it?
My stays go tighter as the mast goes up. When it is up above half way and out of reach is when I need the support

 

[Doug J]

The deck fittings would have to be forward of the mast for that to be the case wouldn't it?
My stays go tighter as the mast goes up. When it is up above half way and out of reach is when I need the support

Yes mine are forward of the mast.

I just went out and measured where the straps are located on the deck. I came up with 27.5" from the middle of the tabernacle, and 3.5" forward of the front edge of the tabernacle.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Yes mine are forward of the mast.

I just went out and measured where the straps are located on the deck. I came up with 27.5" from the middle of the tabernacle, and 3.5" forward of the front edge of the tabernacle.

Interesting. The instructions that came with mine from BWY said to mount it further back. The outboard distance seems to be about the same. That would explain why they work backwards from each other.

 

[Sumner]

Yes mine are forward of the mast.

I just went out and measured where the straps are located on the deck. I came up with 27.5" from the middle of the tabernacle, and 3.5" forward of the front edge of the tabernacle.

Did you get a pop-top cover with yours? Since we bought the boat new I don't know what was stock or not.

In the picture above the arrows point to the attach points for the pop-top cover and the baby stays. I wonder if MacGregor put them there if you ordered either/or a pop-top cover or a mast raising system or both. They look to be about the same distance ahead of the mast as what your measurements show.

Also did all S's come with a mast raising system since it is in the promotional video? I could see where BWY might say put them in another location thinking there was no pop-top cover to secure,

Sum

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[Paul Brinkley]

Sum-
"Also did all S's come with a mast raising system since it is in the promotional video?"
No, my 90 did not, and my friend's 92 did not. Mine did have the straps, but I don't know if they came from the factory. I can't remember if my friend's S had the straps. I built my own mast-raising system and use the straps positioned about where yours are. -Paul

 

[davenlynn]

Centerline:
Just listen to Sum. Most boats didn't come with baby stays. Attach deck hardware (eyes) using backing plates (I use 1/8" aluminum plate, available at HD or Lowes, etc.). Drill the holes, use a good sealant and bolt 'em on. Ten minutes work with someone in the cabin holding the nutdriver. Get "S" hooks and you can use nylon tie-down straps with a ratchet release, etc. for the baby stays themselves. It ain't rocket science, son.

 

[centerline]

with the information I have learned, I have a plan. I will explain and someone can either tell me in going to screw it up, or that I have came up with a better mousetrap.... my 24ft mast weighs approximetly 50 pounds with the rigging. if i anchor it to the tabernacle and lift it at a distance of 8ft from the tabernacle, i will be applying about 75-80 pounds of force.
so using the gin pole method, I want to hook on to it there, leaving the forestay to swing in the breeze. (I could hook on higher up but I want to be able to unhook from it without climbing the mast)
here is where it gets unique. I will have baby stay attachment points forward of the mast and as wide as I can get without upsetting the aesthetics. and at the mast connection point, where the line from the gin pole will connect, I will build a quick detach bridal with two blocks on it to quick-attach to the boom.
then... from the baby stay attachment points on the deck, I will run a line from each side up thru the respective block on the bridal...... these lines will be evened up and joined solidly with a the single line going to the gin pole...... and from there it is all back to a normal mast raising system.
when the single hoisting line is pulled, it will tighten both lines evenly thru the bridal blocks and out to the stay attachment points on the deck. as the mast raises, it will be trapped in the middle of the "self adjusting stays" which are actually the lifting lines, and cannot sway left or right as it comes up. due to the wide mounted stay attachment points on the deck, it will remain stabile from the time it leaves the saddle to the time the shrouds take over.....
I can see where with this method, it would be easy to raise and lower the mast while on the water and a secure way to hold the mast while passing under a bridge..... no side slop because there will be no slack in the holding line, which in a sense are self adjusting stays at this point. although while lowered, on the water and underway, a person would probably want to use a line and snug the forestay up for additional support
will it work? I think it will.... and Sum, you are right. I have over engineered it, LOL.... but thats what I do....

 

[Sumner]

with the information I have learned, I have a plan.....will it work? I think it will.... and Sum, you are right. I have over engineered it, LOL.... but thats what I do....

Well I tend to over engineer a lot of things , so I'd say if this is what you want to do go with it. These boats are meant to make us happy not someone else . Will what you want to do be quick and work? I'm not sure as I got lost in the description , but sounds like you have a plan that you would like to try,

Sum

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[Doug J]

The factory system incorporates the head sail halyard, which is connected to a strap at the end of the gin pole. Once the mast is secured with the head stay, you simply unhook the halyard. No need to climb the mast! (I always connect my unused halyard to the bow pulpit for added safety, since my CDI furler uses an internal halyard).

Your idea sounds interesting, but...I know you're concerned about lateral movement of the mast as it's being raised, which is why you designed the bridal system to keep things tight all the way. The side to side forces are really minimal, even though there is considerable sideways movement, no need to worry! The baby stays only keep the mast from falling sideways, but the Shrouds take over about half way up.

Your proposed system sounds like more trouble to setup. Why don't you just try using the same kind of system the 26's use? The MAC26S mast is 28' long.

The pic's Sum posted show the setup real well. I'm not sure this has been mentioned yet, but make sure the attachment on the deck for the block & tackle, i.e. bow cleat has good backing, and the deck is good and strong.

 

[centerline]

its basically the same as a normal baby stay set up.... the difference is, where the stays would attach to the mast, I am going to put blocks there and run the stays thru them to bring the stays back to the gin pole. then I can pull the upper end of the stays to raise the mast. and they will be tight all the time while raising or lowering.

 

[Doug J]

its basically the same as a normal baby stay set up.... the difference is, where the stays would attach to the mast, I am going to put blocks there and run the stays thru them to bring the stays back to the gin pole. then I can pull the upper end of the stays to raise the mast. and they will be tight all the time while raising or lowering.

You'll get more leverage if you use the head sail halyard, it's a lot higher up the mast than 8ft., less stress at the attachment point on the foredeck, or wherever you will be connecting.

 

[Sumner]

.... I'm not sure this has been mentioned yet, but make sure the attachment on the deck for the block & tackle, i.e. bow cleat has good backing, and the deck is good and strong.

That is a good point. Ours worked fine for us and the previous owners, but I...

... put a more substantial backing plate under that cleat (top arrow) when I put in the backing plates for the bow rollers. The bottom arrows point to the attach points for the bow pulpits. At some point I might reinforce those also. I also reinforced the side cleats above.

In the picture above the arrow points to the factory backing plate for the center cleat. The center cleat also comes in very handy while anchoring,

Sum

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[Justin_NSA]

I tie the lead on the gin pole to the mast transportation bolt on the bow pulpit. It's stronger than the bow cleat point and higher, further away for a better angle.

 

[Doug J]

Another word of caution...

Looking at the thread titled "Crackling Noises" by Costy, who has a MAC21 as well, makes me wonder if the foredeck is strong enough for a mast raising system. I suppose a suitable connection point somewhere on the bow can be found or made, if determined enough. Even the trailer winch stand can be incorporated if need be, but of course that won't provide the on the water capability.

 

[Doug J]

I tie the lead on the gin pole to the mast transportation bolt on the bow pulpit. It's stronger than the bow cleat point and higher, further away for a better angle.

I might try that!

I found out how strong the bow pulpit is. I had a somewhat minor fender bender with another boat, and bent/tweaked the pulpit a little.

I tried to straighten it by using a come along wrapped around a tree, pulling it sideways. I really torqued on it hard. Really got a sense of how strong the pulpit and the deck in that area is. The pulpit is still not quite right, but a little better.