stepping the mast using a gin pole???

[centerline]

I fully understand the mechanical advantage of using a gin pole to help with raising the mast, especially if it has a way to lock the raising line in place should the stays need untangled during the procedure. BUT.... I still fail to see what will keep the mast from going over sideways if it decides to.... until the shrouds start to come tight, it seems that there is absolutely no side thrust support.....
i can see a better advantage if the gin pole was an a-frame affair that had its legs positioned one on each side of the deck to give it side-ways support, but the single legged gin pole seems like it will happily follow the mast when it decides to take a left turn about half way up....

anyone have thoughts on this, LOL.....

I will probably have to come up with a solution to raise the mast by myself, and i would like it as simple and fool proof as possible. I have had some lessons learned the hard way and its not as much fun as it should be...

 

[timebandit]

Baby stays.

 

[centerline]

Baby stays.

well thats simple enough to understand....

my boat doesnt have the baby stays, so i will have to figure out the a-frame system.....

 

[caguy]

Temporary stays. The trick is locating the attachment point on the deck where the tension remains constant. It's about 2" foward of the hinge pin and as far out on the raised sides of the cabin as you can get. If you make them even with the pin they will tighten as you raise the mast, due to the cuvature of the deck/roof.

Here is a link to boat modifications at the sailboat knowledge base for Mac 25.
If you click on the pdf link at the bottom you will find the pictures.

http://sbo.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=6620&Itemid=257

 

[Sumner]

well thats simple enough to understand....

my boat doesnt have the baby stays, so i will have to figure out the a-frame system.....

Don't go the A-frame approach. The gin pole is simpler to use and store. There are pictures....

....on my site and others....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

It will be simpler to put in a couple eye straps for the baby stays than making an A-frame,

Sum

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[Timo42]

Before you go to all that trouble, try lifting the mast by hand, it takes two people the first couple of times, but I have been stepping my v222 mast solo for a couple of years without any problems. The most important thing is to get a Johnson lever for the forestay, get the bigger one. You use the jib halyard to old the mast up while you attach the forestay, and with the Johnson lever you don't have to adjust the forestay tension every time.

 

[davenlynn]

Do do the baby stays. Just place the deck attachments correctly. Make them even with the base of the mast. My first time around I placed them 2" forward and as the mast raised, they became looser, which made the mast wobble.

Good luck,

Dave

 

[Justin_NSA]

My instructions from BWY say; even with the back edge of the mast, 23 1/2" from the center of the boat.

 

[centerline]

My instructions from BWY say; even with the back edge of the mast, 23 1/2" from the center of the boat.

are these instructions for the mac21?

 

[SchwarckT]

With my gin pole set up, I just walk along side the mast as it goes up to control side sway. This way I don't need to rig baby stays.

 

[flynfol]

I use bridles that attach to existing deck hardware. Stays for the mast and the gin pole(spinnaker pole pulling double duty). I'm more than capable of lifting the mast without it, but seems like something gets snagged everytime.It only takes one time for an accident to happen that damages something or injures somebody. Make sure you are clear above ( power lines,trees,etc.) before you hoist.....;-). I have pictures in old posts ( using an iPad...no pics loaded)

 

[Sumner]

are these instructions for the mac21?

The measurements are not critical, just have the attach points off to the sides of the masts pivot point. Ours are not exactly in the ideal location, but I think the factory put them where they are as they also ....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-canvas/canvas-2.html

... serve as attach points for the pop-top cover. It isn't a big deal if the mast leans slightly to one side or the other while it is going up.

.... seems like something gets snagged everytime.It only takes one time for an accident to happen that damages something or injures somebody....

I put our mast up and down a couple times without the mast raising system, but for the reasons stated above now use it every time. It is easy and quick to use and you can stop at any point in raising or lowering the mast.

I have "S" hooks on the baby stays. Clip the "S's" to the eye straps on the deck and cleat the other end off on the mast. That takes maybe 45 seconds. Attach the gin pole to the bottom of the mast and to the jib halyard on one side of the top and the block and tackle on the other side of the top. Maybe another minute. Hook the other end of the ....

....block and tackle to the center bow cleat and lead the line back to the sheet winch on one side of the cabin top. Another minute. Now even Ruth can winch the mast up with no problems in safety to her, us and the boat.

We also store the gin pole and block and tackle below, just in case the mast had to come down on a trip. The....

... block and tackle can also be used....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/outside-16.html

...for other things,

Sum

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[centerline]

I use bridles that attach to existing deck hardware. Stays for the mast and the gin pole(spinnaker pole pulling double duty). I'm more than capable of lifting the mast without it, but seems like something gets snagged everytime.It only takes one time for an accident to happen that damages something or injures somebody. Make sure you are clear above ( power lines,trees,etc.) before you hoist.....;-). I have pictures in old posts ( using an iPad...no pics loaded)

flynfol, I agree there is always a high risk of something snagging somewhere as the mast goes up and/or going catastrophically wrong, and that is kinda my point in trying to find the best solution to raising the mast single-handedly...
one accident is too many in my opinion.... so my goal is to find the most foolproof way to stand the mast on this 21, by myself...

I am still young enough and tough enough to raise the mast by just lifting it, but im also old enough that my back is prone to going out occasionally when I over do it or twist wrong while lifting, and I see no reason to put myself or the boat at risk by over-amping myself while trying to have fun.
this sailing thing is new to me and for this first year at least I am going to be rigging this boat a lot because Im not going to leave it in the water.

and to all of you that have replied here, I appreciate all the feed back I have gotten and the suggestions about how to do this, but other than suggesting I just raise it by hand, I have had no complete answer or explanation to a method that works for the 21..... maybe there is no answer. and im fine with that, because I know I will figure something out. but until I have to go there Im searching the database (SBO) for the easy answer, LOL...
the gin pole and baby stays seem to be the cleanest option, but as the 21's dont have baby stays, I would add some temporary rigging stays if I knew the exact spot to attach them to the deck. also at what elevation to attach them to the mast..... it may be geometrically impossible to attach a stay that will remain a relatively constant distance/tension as the mast raises... due to the deck being lower than than the tabernacle by about 10 inches.. is it possible to find the sweet spot to do this??

 

[Doug J]

We also store the gin pole and block and tackle below, just in case the mast had to come down on a trip./quote]

I agree with everything Sum said. Couple things I do different though, is that I leave the baby stays in place all the time. And I store the gin pole on deck between two lifeline stanchions, out of the way and less clutter below.

 

[centerline]

I agree with Sum also, but all I can say again is, I dont have a 26 with baby stays. I have a 21 that was never designed with them. I am trying to figure out where to install them.

 

[Sumner]

... baby stays seem to be the cleanest option, but as the 21's dont have baby stays, I would add some temporary rigging stays if I knew the exact spot to attach them to the deck. also at what elevation to attach them to the mast..... it may be geometrically impossible to attach a stay that will remain a relatively constant distance/tension as the mast raises... due to the deck being lower than than the tabernacle by about 10 inches.. is it possible to find the sweet spot to do this??

I don't think a lot of the bigger boats came with any baby stays. You only got them if you ordered the mast raising kit as I believe it was an option. I think you are trying to over engineer it. As I mentioned in the other post the mast doesn't have to stay perfectly vertical going up. It isn't probably when it is pushed up.

Not sure if you looked at the picture here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

....or not, but ....

....put a couple eye straps off to the side of the mast and a couple cleats 5-7 feet up the mast and you will be fine.

Since your side decks are lower that will change things some, but I don't think that much. I'd move the cleats for the baby stays a little higher, but not so high that they are hard to reach. Then put the mast up by hand and tie the baby stays and mark where you tied them. Lower the mast and they should become slack and the mast might move a little side to side. See if it is acceptable or not. Then when raising in the future cleat the baby stays off with the mast down where you marked them.

You could do a trial run by tying the baby stays around the mast about where you would put the cleats and then weight them down on the deck where you would put the eye straps and raise and lower by hand. The baby stays at this point are not functional, but are just in position to see how slack they would be.

Also remember as the mast gets vertical the shrouds will locate it side to side,

Sum

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[caguy]

Here is a video that shows you how easy it is with a DIY system. This guy is an older gentleman and if he can do it anyone can. As you get older you look to do things easier and smarter. The video is at the bottom of the page.

http://www.sailingtexas.com/Movies/Macgregor26Me/macgregor26me.html

 

[Sumner]

... And I store the gin pole on deck between two lifeline stanchions, out of the way and less clutter below...

Hey, we have so much 'clutter' that you .....

...can't see the gin pole .

Ours can stay in place on the mast but there is ....

... a track there that is used with the whisker pole so I put it below. If we day sailed I'd leave it on the mast and probably leave the baby stays in place if I didn't have to go forward (had a furler). When overnighting and staying on the boat the baby stays are in the way for me.

On the 21 I think a bigger problem than the baby stays is that you are going to have to probably make a plate to go at the bottom of the mast that you can attach the gin pole to.....or does your plate now have a ....

...forward set of holes you can use?

Sum

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[centerline]

Sumner, thank you for the explanation. with that and the vids I have seen, it helps me understand what I need to do.
everything I have seen and heard has had to do with the 26..... but I dont have a 26.
I thought to myself that the stays shouldnt have to be snug all the way, or at any time, but how much side movement would be acceptable? with what you have given me I can see now what I have to do to get it going on..... thank you again.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

I'd just limit the side to side movement enough it doesn't break the hinge.

you can see the anchor points are close to the base of the mast.
if you can attach to your lifeline base, or the trailer

I'm not sure why you couldn't drill the deck attach some eyes and make some out of wire. or just some low stretch line for temp use. west marine lets us use the bench and tools.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h169/ftldiver2/MACGREGOR/P1010018.jpg