Static Tests versus Field Use: True Holding Power of Anchor Types?

[gettinthere]

My boat came with a genuine 45lb CQR. I used it several times in several places for about a year before swapping out for a 45lb Manson Supreme.

I went back to some of the same anchorages under very similar wind conditions. With the Manson Supreme, I put out just a bit LESS scope. In every location, the CQR dragged AT LEAST 25' before setting, the Manson Supreme set immediately. In every deployment with both anchors I lowered the hook as we came to a stop and layed out chain as we slowly reversed so as to not have a pile of chain atop the anchor. After letting out 7:1 scope we slowly throttled up in reverse to about 3/4 throttle, a little at a time. The CQR dragged every time, the Manson Supreme grabbed solod every time.

Once you get a CQR firmly burried, it holds pretty well. The trick is getting it buried quick and easy.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Get,

This is a proper procedure for setting your anchor in given conditions.
You pointed up & creped to the spot to drop, positioning your bow (probably into the wind),
you dropped the anchor & back down slowly for the set. I have used your method many times.

Isn't it great when after deploying the anchor, your bow drifts abit to STBD or PORT and,
then........you feel the jolt of the anchor setting in & your bow rounds up telling you that your
anchor is now set? This is a reassuring feeling.

Feels great doesn't it pal? This is like sex before sex, don't you agree?

KUDOS to you, you're my kind of sailor.

CR

 

[gettinthere]

I may be your kind of anchoror...you havnt seen me sail!

 

[Kermit]

We're good SBO friends but, you're married so, this means we are not allowed to date...........Sorry!

Yeah and @woodster would prolly get all jealous. Just don't tell him about our bromance.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Oh Kermit,

You are such bad man pal..............
That's why I wuv ya.

CR

 

[woodster]

Yeah and @woodster would prolly get all jealous. Just don't tell him about our bromance.

real men don't date frogs or get jealous of there dates

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Woods,

Please tell me you are not jealous pal........HA, HA.

CR

 

[woodster]

no way jose

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Woods,

Ditto pal....................you may be cute but, your just NOT my TYPE.
ps: how did you know my middle name was Jose.........NOT!

CR

 

[Jackdaw]

The age of the book does not alter the history that it reports. If he stayed put on CQRs, then he stayed put. How much more can one stay put if staying put, etc.?

Technology changes over time, and so does the notion of acceptable, good, and exceptional performance.

Back in 1982 Road&Track magazine found the drum+disc brake combo on the Ford Mustang 'good'. Pretty sure they would not today.

The CRQ routinely ends up at the bottom of the list in modern anchor tests. It's OK to love yours, but that's a reality. Accept and move on.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Among the sailboats on my dock alone I counted 5 Deltas, 4 Claws, 4 genuine Bruce, 1 Spade, 3 genuine CQR, 1 Danforth, 1 Ronca, and mine, which is a type of CQR (45 lb) but not the drop-forged version of the original design. It differs in having a shorter shank by 3" and stockier, is wider across the "wings" by an inch, and is stainless. The wings are welded to the shank. I didn't attempt to measure, but there appears to be perhaps 15% more surface area than the narrower genuine CQR. When I get home I'll look up what my surveyor actually called this anchor in his report. Anchored for six nights at Little Scorpion, the anchor has barnacle growth on it (tiny little newbies), so can clearly see how much of it was embedded/buried (no barnacles there). The entire plow portion up to the crown and swivel connection of the shank. So, not acting like Stu's chain with a rock at the end, or whatever. I doubt it's been tested in a static test unless it is now what testers themselves call a "CQR." The new anchors may test out better in practice as they do in static tests, as two of the responders above have witnessed in the field, but there have not been many up-grades on this dock. Of course, if a boat stays in its slip 52 weeks a year, not much opportunity there to become unhappy with the anchor's performance! On this Bavaria I carry a genuine Bruce, a Fortress, and the "CQR" as the bower. Normally, the rode is 9/16" nylon attached to 160 ft of 5/16" ss chain, but can swap in 300 ft of 5/8 rode on 40 ft of 3/8" chain "if needed."

 

[capta]

When I was but a lad, learning my trade with some old Cape Horners as my teachers, the quote in my signature has always been my guide when it comes to securing a vessel, on the hook or to a dock.
I don't think it's any ONE part of your anchoring tackle that makes for a good set up. It's how all the parts work together that will save your boat and her crew when the proverbial sh*t hits the fan.
For years I poo pooed the idea of "new gen" anchors until a couple of boats were able to anchor in the 'chutes' in Bequia that create the 'drag fest' that is so entertaining, even if it has nothing to do with guys in dresses.
I had to know what anchor they were using. Always the answer was Rocna. Through fortuitous circumstances I was able to pick up an 88#er for a third it's retail price and it wasn't too long before my much loved but not nearly as efficient genuine CQR was sold.
And it did work, but it worked so well that I knew my chain was now the weak link. So we moved up to 1/2" chain and the Rocna rarely even has enough pressure on it to dig in, as the chain does all the work. Our swinging circle is now on the chain, instead of the anchor, in winds under 15 knots.
But even that isn't enough to keep a 77k boat secure on her anchor. The 1/2" chain certainly isn't strong enough to hold the boat once the chain is tight between the anchor and the bow. I know, I've watched my 3/8" chain break in moderate pitching conditions in 1971, while sitting on a friend's boat, looking at mine (a different boat, but nearly as heavy).
So I added a snub line. A long snub line if conditions warrant. And I have a back up snub if needed. I'm pretty confidant that I won't have to worry about MY boat dragging in winds to 70 or 80 knots.
Now if everybody else.......

 

[Anonymous 121765]

CAPTA,

Great post pal.

Not enough interest on proper chain size & length thus far but hey, your comments are from YOUR experience & experience is the best teacher.

CR

 

[thinwater]

I think this image of lack of caternary really sums it up best. This was just 25 knots with a very poor execution of a tandem anchor set up. The Rocna anchor (essentially acting as a Kellet) is lifted right off the bottom and the all chain rode is drum tight..

Yup, everything wrong:
1. Secondary rode too short.
2. Secondary rode not chain.
3. Secondary rode attached to tripping eye (the Rocna has a tandem eye farther down the shank). That it is over the roll-bar with some clips is just funny.
4. Not enough scope. When anchors are hooking, even a little up-lift can make then skate off. It's not like a buried anchor, where the soil provides some down force.

Didn't really do anything right, and yet it worked. This is the sort of "success" that convinces people that they know how to anchor, because they didn't drag. This also help perpetuate misinformation.

 

[Franklin]

I have been cruising for almost 5 years straight now. I've seen every anchor ever made in the anchorages and for the most part, all work. But do you want "for the most part"? It only takes 1 mishap to destroy a boat. I've made it clear in previous posts that I think the Bulwagga is the best overall primary anchor ever built but the best primary anchor you can buy now is the Mantus. With that said, the anchor that I see failing the most is the CQR. I've watched captains try to set the CQR like up to 10 times before they get it set. I've seen them drag across the anchorage. All anchors work in sand but sand is not always available and that is where the new tech anchors come into play. I did a test with 9 anchors with my boat once and in the hard coral shell sand mix only two set, Mantus and Bulwagga....Bruce almost set but would go so far as to say the Bruce may be the most dangerous anchor to own as it can give you a false sense that it set and it really didn't.

But if you aren't cruising and just anchor in the same spots time after time and it sets there, then you don't need to change anchors. Most anchors will hold a boat in winds higher than 60 knots if used right once set good (I've ridden out hurricanes with 100 knots of wind and seen what other anchors can do), but in my opinion, a top of the line anchor is cheap insurance so why go cheap?

As for cantanary of the chain, it all has to do with how much weight you have down...aka...how many feet, not scope. If you are anchoring in 10' of water, a 4 to 1 is just about 40 lbs and that will straighten out in about 15-20 knots of wind. If you are in 40' of water, a 4 to 1 is about 160 lbs and that will take about 40 knots to straighten out. I do not commend anything less than 4 to 1 at any depth but if shallow water, it should be 7 to 1. I have talked to cruisers who have had success with 200' of 3/8ths chain and 100' of rope in 100' of water with a 45' monohull holding in 30 knots of wind but I have yet to try it. Out here in the south pacific it is hard to find anything less than 100' deep.

 

[Kings Gambit]

OK--here's the scoop. The surveyor of my Bavaria when I purchased called it a 45-lb CQR; however, it actually appears to be a 45-lb Suncor PlowMaster made of 316 stainless, but which is clearly a CQR "type" with its articulating shank, etc., but no brand is stamped on it. Defender lists them at $1,500 so they're not exactly a "cheap" imitation of a genuine CQR; rated for boats up to 55 ft, so it might be "over-sized" for the Bavaria 38. I think I'll keep it (at least for now). As I stated, it appears to have more surface area in the wings/palms than the genuine CQR of the same weight.

 

[Gunni]

I have a 36' CQR in the shed, I'm keeping it for a future landscape decoration project! KG, your chain rode looks undersized for a 40 foot boat. I just checked my loading charts and the SWL on 5/16" stainless chain is 2400 lbs. That chain will not provide a margin beyond 42 kts. I would want galvinized steel G40, or 3/8"BBB. Notice you have two chain sizes which makes it hard to run a windlass doesn't it?

 

[heritage]

Let's see a show of hands of those that have changed to a new generation anchor and wish they had there old bruce or cqr back.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I have a 36' CQR in the shed, I'm keeping it for a future landscape decoration project! KG, your chain rode looks undersized for a 40 foot boat. I just checked my loading charts and the SWL on 5/16" stainless chain is 2400 lbs. That chain will not provide a margin beyond 42 kts. I would want galvinized steel G40, or 3/8"BBB. Notice you have two chain sizes which makes it hard to run a windlass doesn't it?

The 3/8" chain does not go through the windlass; this version of the chain/rode has to be veered out by hand (not wonderful), a 40-ft shot of chain followed by 5/8" nylon rode. Yeah-- I'm aware that 5/16" is probably too small for some loads that I could encounter, and that SS is not especially strong to begin with. To get this up to snuff I'd need a new windlass for 3/8". This might happen soon as you might remember my earlier complaint about the vertical Sprint 1000 windlass installed there now.

 

[okawbow]

I guess I've never had a bad experience with an anchor dragging. A couple times in 5 months of cruising, and moving to a new anchorage almost every day, I had to try setting my Danforth anchor twice, because it didn't grab. Part way through my trip, I was nearly hit by a tornado, and the Danforth anchor was bent at the shank.

For the rest of my trip, I bought a Lemar Claw 33# and 33' of 5/16" chain for my Cheoy Lee 31 ketch. From Mobile to the Keys, and all they way up to Northern Maine, and partway back down, the Claw always set promptly and always reset with the tide, without ever dragging, in all kinds of weather, current, and bottom conditions.

I would drop the anchor, back up to a 5-1 or up to a 7-1 scope if there was room. I gave the anchor rode a few tugs and the Claw dug in every time.

I had other boats drag right by me, and even had one tie up to us, because his anchor wouldn't set. I guess I was fortunate to have good luck with such a cheap anchor, but it certainly never seemed like it was hard to set an anchor, or hard to stay put once the anchor was set.