Static Tests versus Field Use: True Holding Power of Anchor Types?

[Kings Gambit]

While cruising in southern California I see all the various type of anchors on sailboats--from Bruce, claw, Danforth and other fluke types including Fortress, CQR and Delta to Rocna and Mantus, etc. Static tests rate the anchors by size and type, etc., but what about when swinging on a hook for several days, long enough even to start to grow barnacles on the shanks, etc.? Wouldn't the anchors bury themselves ever deeper to the point where holding power matches or exceeds likely forces of sea and wind? Shouldn't holding power generally increase with time anchored at the same site? And what about relative size of the anchor--wouldn't an oversized Bruce hold as well as a "properly sized" Rocna for the same boat? Is there really one "best" anchor type? I'm starting to wonder, having ridden out a near gale to gale last Friday on one of the most maligned of all anchor types-- a "knock-off" SS CQR--w/o budging "an inch." Riding on 120 ft of SS 5/16" chain in 20 to 25 ft of water depth; no appreciable seas.

 

[Head Sail]

I think your on to something. All that really matters is does the anchor hold YOUR boat. I used an often maligned danforth. It held without a budge for over a week in current, wind and waves.

 

[Stu Jackson]

KG, I suggest you peruse www.cruisersforum.com. There have been some very recent anchor discussions that would answer your question.

All I can say for sure is this: "Those folks who used to swear by their CQRs either had a double sized anchor or... MY take is that they are simply a Rock on a Rope."

The flaming may start, but what good is a 40 year old anchor technology?

 

[Bill Roosa]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
had a 30 Catalina and 30 lb CQR. During a summer thunderstorm winds hit 60 MPH and most of the other boats drug anchor. The CQR did not budge an inch. Had more concern about a boat dragging into us than us dragging.
have a 40.5 hunter with CQR and she sails on her anchor like a ballerina. But the anchor don't budge if properly set

 

[Davidasailor26]

I'm with Bill. We had a 28 foot boat with a 25 pound CQR. Never moved once in 25 years. Don't remember having any trouble setting it either. I know CQR's get a lot of abuse, but at least in some situations they work. (This was in sandy and muddy bottoms with lots of weeds that prevented a danforth from setting)

 

[Bill Roosa]

Agree with David. Mine is used in mud and sand. Different bottom conditions will drive the choice of anchor. I suspect that in rock the CQR does poorly

 

[Kings Gambit]

I may get to it, Stu; but first an excerpt from the writings of one of my authors, Professor Brian Fagan, in Staying Put! The Art of Anchoring; p. 25: "Plow anchors are the favorites of many cruising sailors, whether bound for blue water or sailing close inshore. The classic design is the CQR but in recent years various manufacturers have attempted to improve on this most effective design." ... "Having anchored thousands of times with plow anchors, I am convinced there is nothing to touch them on every kind of bottom except weed or hard rock. ... they are almost impossible to foul and offer a very favorable weight-to-holding power ratio. CQRs are reluctant to drag, even when provoked." Of course, he goes on to say that one should trust only the authentic drop-forged versions and to "beware of cheap imitations." He gives the most improved version (at that date) as the Delta. Not to deny that improvements in anchors have occurred, but just because a new design is produced it does not make an older design any less capable than it has been over thousands of deployments the world over, etc. It can still do what it has always done. BTW, CQR is an acronym for "secure." What more can an anchor do for you than to keep you Staying Put!

 

[Johnb]

Wouldn't the anchors bury themselves ever deeper to the point where holding power matches or exceeds likely forces of sea and wind? Shouldn't holding power generally increase with time anchored at the same site?

Totally agree but in tidal waters they reset about every 6.5 hours and that is what a lot of us worry about. a) will they in fact reset and b) will the shank stand up to the forces generated when they get twisted around.

 

[Stu Jackson]

What more can an anchor do for you than to keep you Staying Put!

KG,

I've heard it all. Brian's book? Check the published date. Also check Maine Sail's discussions about new gen anchors. Here's an example:

Why NEW GEN Anchors are Better:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.msg19651.html#msg19651

If the Model T was such a great car, one could also figure that better cars came along since.

That's all.

CQRs, unless tremendously oversized, simply weren't, especially compared to new gen anchors.

Progress. Gotta love it.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...when-tides-do-a-180-degree-change-170093.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photos-of-anchors-setting-126073.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/videos-of-anchors-setting-155412.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/videos-of-anchors-setting-155412.html

 

[Stu Jackson]

a 30 Catalina and 30 lb CQR.

a 40.5 hunter with CQR

a 28 foot boat with a 25 pound CQR.

These posts kinda "prove" my thesis. 30 footer with a 30 CQR. 40.5 boat with an UNSPECIFIED size CQR. 28 footer with a 25 pound CQR. The weight of the anchor is = to the length of the boat.

Agreed. ALL of them work.

I have a 34 foot boat with a 22# Rocna. It is good for up to 42 knot winds, and I have experienced current changes and high winds. Just two months ago I was bound in to an anchorage with 50 knot gusts and sustained winds in the low 40s for two days. No issues with my gear, 10:1 scope.

Folks, I am NOT arguing with your anchor success stories with your CQRs, they worked for hundreds of thousands of boaters for many, many years.

I've used Danforths, Bruce and now a Rocna. I simply skipped the CQR "phase."

All I am saying is that there are new and better anchors, with far larger areas of flukes for better holding AT A MUCH LIGHTER WEIGHT for identical if not better holding power. (Not including Fortress anchors, which are an entirely different discussion.)

When you have the time, read the links I posted above.

Your boat, your choice.

 

[Kings Gambit]

The age of the book does not alter the history that it reports. If he stayed put on CQRs, then he stayed put. How much more can one stay put if staying put, etc.?

 

[Maine Sail]

Three weeks ago a Jewell Island Maine a micro burst came thought at about 7:30 PM. The storm spun everyone 180 degrees and the winds then hit 54 knots. Jewell is a little keyhole of a harbor requiring short scope and leaves zero room for dragging. Three boats wound up on the rocks, two with genuine CQR's and one Danforth.

Two weeks ago a similar event occurred at the Goslings Islands. There were only four boats anchored on the outer limits of the anchorage. Us using a new gen, my friend Tim with a Spade, a ketch with a CQR and a boat with a Mantus. Storm peaked at about 45 knots and when it was over the ketch was 150 yards to the east from where they had set.. Luckily for them they dragged Away from the granite ledges and apparently hooked at least one stringer of lobster pots which likely slowed the drag a bit. When they arrived I watched them set, three times, before it stuck. They were on all chain and based on rode angle during the storm had at least 7:1. We were on 5:1..

I own two genuine CQR anchors (also two Spades, Rocna, Super Max, Genuine Bruce, Two Fortress, Manson Supreme, Mantus and sold my Delta). I can choose to use any of the anchors in my quiver and it will never be the CQR's again... Anchor technology has changed for the better...

 

[Chris & Lenore]

I (and others) gave noticed a huge improvement in that inevitable 2 am wind shift and anchor resetting. Used to have "sized for the boat" Bruce and CQR. Now a Rocna Vulcan. All gave a good initial set but the Vulcan seems to reset far quicker and reliably than the others. Other sailors around here say the same. Most of our anchoring is in weed or mud.
One thing we found that drastically improved our CQR resetting ability was adding more chain. Night and day going from 20 feet to 60.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

I do like what the guys posted on the correct scopes to use.

I want to add one item left out of the conversation thus far.
It's the length & weight of chain that also plays a major role.

I'm also an avid scuba diver/spear-man & have seen many different style anchors on the bottom & some, I had to manually set to bite in sand, mud, hard & grass, I have noticed differences in weight & chain length & the effect it has on these types of anchors. Many times especially in deeper water, with the proper length & weight, the anchor is hardly dug in. The proper chain length will cause the shank to angle lower thus allowing the anchor a better angle to bite. This also works real well in shallower depths.

If there are not big waves, I see alot of anchors just laying, some on their side like a Fortress or plow. When I see this, I also see 10 feet or so of chain laying close to or on the bottom before they raise up.

Thinking about this, I went with a heavier chain length of twenty five foot. I also experimented with various style anchors & came to the conclusion that with proper size & length of chain, I was able to go from a 25lb. to a 16lb. anchor for my C30. I now use a Danforth by a local outlet that is designed to allow the flukes a greater angle of travel thus a better dig-in. Some other manufactured danforths I compared did not have this greater angle of travel.

I have yet to drag anchor in differing depths & conditions. If in spirited conditions, my Dan digs in well.
My Motto,"Feel the Force, Remember the Chain & Remember the Scope."

CR

 

[Kermit]

I use a danforth anchor with approximately 10' of chain and the rest rope. I never drag. Two C 30s dragged on their anchors (no idea what type) very near me while waiting for Independence Day fireworks. Clearly everyone should use danforth anchors. Always.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Kermit,

It only takes one time to discover that your chain rode is far too short or far too light in weight.
Lakes verses open water, is like comparing apples to oranges. They are knot of the same fruit. So, one must question & prepare for the inevitable beforehand especially for the areas you operate in.

As for the correct type of anchor to use, different bottoms require different style anchors. Not all Danforths are created equal with respect to other anchor designs & bottoms. The bottom decides the design & not the skipper.
You know what they say, "Luck be a lady," until it's knot.

On the other two C30's, not knowing their specifics, you do lack an opinion. You also never mentioned if you were an experienced diver. Have you been on the bottom to witness ground tackle firsthand, I on the other hand have been there for over 25 years & in many differing water columns, rode & anchor designs. Remember, a picture is worth a thousand words. If witnessing this up front & personal, your opinion may change as I feel, the more information one gathers, the more power in their decision-making.

I ONLY share with the group what my experiences have taught me. I don't make this stuff up.
That's all I can offer here.

CR

 

[Kermit]

My point exactly, capnron. I apologize for putting you through the trouble of writing that long explanation. Seems like anchor threads always go that way. Sorta like what tires are best. Or in my world, what f-stop do you use?

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Kermit,

We've been SBO mates for awhile pal & have shared many posts over time.
It was reading this thread & I only wanted to share my experience.
If what I offered helped other boaters, that was all I wanted to do.

We're good SBO friends but, you're married so, this means we are not allowed to date...........Sorry!

CR

 

[Maine Sail]

The problem with relying on chain caternary, for keeping the proper angle on the anchor, is that it simply does not exist when you need it most. Adequate scope is the only reliable method to keep the rode angle low enough.

Course if you are using chain like this then you're probably able to maintain caternary to about 70 knots...

No caternary:

I think this image of lack of caternary really sums it up best. This was just 25 knots with a very poor execution of a tandem anchor set up. The Rocna anchor (essentially acting as a Kellet) is lifted right off the bottom and the all chain rode is drum tight..

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Main,

I wasn't judging everything on catenary pal.

I feel that whatever we do to ensure anchoring safety, simply may will not hold up to what Mother Nature can throw at us.

And this always seems to happen at the worst possible times.We as humans with boats, can not only rely on our anchoring setup. There is still a synergy in anchoring that need be balanced, aside of extreme conditions. It's a combination of bottom, anchor type, rode & scope up against the conditions we encounter.

I've been thru Hurricanes the past 25 years & witnessed that whatever your preparations are, She is still alot bigger than us. And it doesn't always work in our favor does it?

CR