I have a 88 C30 which I have owned for almost a year now. every now and again when I try to start the engine it will do NOTHING! sometimes it will go for a month without doing this and starts right up after holding down the glow plugs. in fact, she most always cranks right up on first try. but, every now and then she just does nothing. I can wait a few minutes and try her again and she will fire up, sometimes it takes quite a few trys. I am talking all or nothing here. when she doesnt start, she doesnt turn over or anything, just blank. any ideas?
- Status
electrical problem or selenoid
Sounds like an electrical problem or your starter motor. I had the same experience. I replaced the wires from the battery to the engine with a thicker grade wire. I also removed and had the starter motor rebuilt. Sometimes the selenoid will stick. Since I did both, I have not had the problem again (knock on wood). I assume you have the M25 engine. Never heard of a U25?
Sounds like an electrical problem or your starter motor. I had the same experience. I replaced the wires from the battery to the engine with a thicker grade wire. I also removed and had the starter motor rebuilt. Sometimes the selenoid will stick. Since I did both, I have not had the problem again (knock on wood). I assume you have the M25 engine. Never heard of a U25?
Maybe a fuse?
I had a similiar problem with my Yanmar 3GM30. On the advice of a friend I discovered there is a single wire running from the starter with an in-line fuse holder that merely needed tightening.
I had a similiar problem with my Yanmar 3GM30. On the advice of a friend I discovered there is a single wire running from the starter with an in-line fuse holder that merely needed tightening.
Starter Switch
All of the ideas the others wrote are good, it is clearly an electrical problem. Another idea is the starter switch itself. Occassionally they go bad (especially on boats) giving just the symptoms you describe. Sounds like you will be tracing the circuit looking for the fault.
All of the ideas the others wrote are good, it is clearly an electrical problem. Another idea is the starter switch itself. Occassionally they go bad (especially on boats) giving just the symptoms you describe. Sounds like you will be tracing the circuit looking for the fault.
thanks, one more question
guess Im on a hunt. my diesel mechanic removed the fuse from the line, which he said served no "useful" purpose. my other question is, what is the little orange light right next to the key. it always light up when the engine goes blank. thanks again!
guess Im on a hunt. my diesel mechanic removed the fuse from the line, which he said served no "useful" purpose. my other question is, what is the little orange light right next to the key. it always light up when the engine goes blank. thanks again!
ground
Dan you might want to check all the elecrtic connections in your starter circuit, all it takes is one poor connection and when it heats up you can have a problem - include checking the ground connection - a poor ground connection can cause starter hicups. Also have you replaced the C30 wiring harness (old system used a plastic plug between engine wires and cockpit panel wires, if you havent you probably have alot of corrosion and voltage loss.
Dan you might want to check all the elecrtic connections in your starter circuit, all it takes is one poor connection and when it heats up you can have a problem - include checking the ground connection - a poor ground connection can cause starter hicups. Also have you replaced the C30 wiring harness (old system used a plastic plug between engine wires and cockpit panel wires, if you havent you probably have alot of corrosion and voltage loss.
Do It Today!
If you haven't replaced the engine wiring harness connectors, do it today. Search on this WEB site or the C30, C34, etc sites for additional information. This will cause the symptoms you've described as well as possibly burning your boat down (minor to major). Do it today, and good luck.
If you haven't replaced the engine wiring harness connectors, do it today. Search on this WEB site or the C30, C34, etc sites for additional information. This will cause the symptoms you've described as well as possibly burning your boat down (minor to major). Do it today, and good luck.
When did the factory upgrade the harness?
Does anyone know when Catalina began installing the upgraded wiring harness as factory euipment. For a 1985 Catalina 30 can I assume that the wiring harness is the upgraded and safer model or is it necessary to install the upgraded wiring harness?
Does anyone know when Catalina began installing the upgraded wiring harness as factory euipment. For a 1985 Catalina 30 can I assume that the wiring harness is the upgraded and safer model or is it necessary to install the upgraded wiring harness?
Wiring Harness 1985 C30
Dave 1985 did NOT have the upgraded wiring harness installed because they didn't come up with it for years later. See the link, Dave is right. Did you find the references? try www.catalina27.org. It's in their tech notes with down-loadable wiring diagram files. If you have an ammeter in your cockpit control panel, you most likely have the old harness. Look in the engine compartment for the connector. Get the referenced wiring harness advisor, it will answer all your questions. If you can't find it, email me offline (sec@c34.org) and I'll send you a ZIP file with the information. Stu
Dave 1985 did NOT have the upgraded wiring harness installed because they didn't come up with it for years later. See the link, Dave is right. Did you find the references? try www.catalina27.org. It's in their tech notes with down-loadable wiring diagram files. If you have an ammeter in your cockpit control panel, you most likely have the old harness. Look in the engine compartment for the connector. Get the referenced wiring harness advisor, it will answer all your questions. If you can't find it, email me offline (sec@c34.org) and I'll send you a ZIP file with the information. Stu
Dan, more links
Yes, of course, but we all started in the same boat (no pun intended) as you did! Here's another important link for your info about your engine. The C30, C34, and C36 Associations websites have lots of information that will also answer your questions. May save you some time and grief by reading up on those first. Stu
Yes, of course, but we all started in the same boat (no pun intended) as you did! Here's another important link for your info about your engine. The C30, C34, and C36 Associations websites have lots of information that will also answer your questions. May save you some time and grief by reading up on those first. Stu
Easy to tell if you're upgraded
The upgraded wiring harness (from Seaward Products) replaced the ampmeter with a voltmeter. (the re-wiring is extensive, but the directions are fairly easy to follow). If you have an ampmeter on the engine control panel, you have the old system and should upgrade it. On the other hand, if you have a volt meter, you probably have the upgraded wiring harness. There may have been further upgrades after that initial change, and Seawaard Products knows all. If you have the upgrade (it happened some time after 1987 for the C-30 as that was the year of my boat), the problem is probably as discussed in one or more of the postings earlier in this thread. Best of luck finding and repairing your problem. Steve Alchemist #4764
The upgraded wiring harness (from Seaward Products) replaced the ampmeter with a voltmeter. (the re-wiring is extensive, but the directions are fairly easy to follow). If you have an ampmeter on the engine control panel, you have the old system and should upgrade it. On the other hand, if you have a volt meter, you probably have the upgraded wiring harness. There may have been further upgrades after that initial change, and Seawaard Products knows all. If you have the upgrade (it happened some time after 1987 for the C-30 as that was the year of my boat), the problem is probably as discussed in one or more of the postings earlier in this thread. Best of luck finding and repairing your problem. Steve Alchemist #4764
Not alone - starting mystery
Dan, I have a Cat 30 1983 with an M-25 which I've owned for 2 years. I believe my engine has the new wiring harness (as I have a voltmeter and not an ampmeter on the engine console - so they say). Every now and then when I go to start the engine, after at least 60 seconds of glowplug, I get NOTHING. But always, always, it eventually starts if I wait several more seconds. And, this only occurs once in a great while. All the other times it starts like a champ. I've checked and cleaned all wire connections to no avail. I've just dismissed it as a "mystery" not for me to solve at this time! For 2 years, we've always got the thing started.
Dan, I have a Cat 30 1983 with an M-25 which I've owned for 2 years. I believe my engine has the new wiring harness (as I have a voltmeter and not an ampmeter on the engine console - so they say). Every now and then when I go to start the engine, after at least 60 seconds of glowplug, I get NOTHING. But always, always, it eventually starts if I wait several more seconds. And, this only occurs once in a great while. All the other times it starts like a champ. I've checked and cleaned all wire connections to no avail. I've just dismissed it as a "mystery" not for me to solve at this time! For 2 years, we've always got the thing started.
M25 Starting
Cedric, You write: "Every now and then when I go to start the engine, after at least 60 seconds of glow plug, I get NOTHING. But always, always, it eventually starts if I wait several more seconds. " You may want to consider installing a glow plug solenoid. It could well be that holding the glow plugs for 60 seconds is draining your battery capacity down so much that you don't have enough juice to start the engine. Wait a few minutes, the batteries come back, and then it works. Check the C34 website for the glow plug solenoid project, it's very easy. You shouldn't have to hold the glow plugs for more than 30 seconds without the solenoid, only 8 to 15 seconds with the solenoid. If the engine's warm, you don't need the glow plugs at all. Also, don't hold the glow plug button in while you push start. Release the glow plug button first, then hit start, you don't need them both on at the same time. In addition, I would consider your situation as a safety hazard: if you need to start your engine, and it doesn't work, you're SOL. Find out what it is and fix it. Since you checked all the connections (including the ground, right?) you should know where the wires start and end. Trace them down and understand how your system works. Could be your 1-2-B switch is dirty and needs to be replaced. Lots of different possibilities. Stu
Cedric, You write: "Every now and then when I go to start the engine, after at least 60 seconds of glow plug, I get NOTHING. But always, always, it eventually starts if I wait several more seconds. " You may want to consider installing a glow plug solenoid. It could well be that holding the glow plugs for 60 seconds is draining your battery capacity down so much that you don't have enough juice to start the engine. Wait a few minutes, the batteries come back, and then it works. Check the C34 website for the glow plug solenoid project, it's very easy. You shouldn't have to hold the glow plugs for more than 30 seconds without the solenoid, only 8 to 15 seconds with the solenoid. If the engine's warm, you don't need the glow plugs at all. Also, don't hold the glow plug button in while you push start. Release the glow plug button first, then hit start, you don't need them both on at the same time. In addition, I would consider your situation as a safety hazard: if you need to start your engine, and it doesn't work, you're SOL. Find out what it is and fix it. Since you checked all the connections (including the ground, right?) you should know where the wires start and end. Trace them down and understand how your system works. Could be your 1-2-B switch is dirty and needs to be replaced. Lots of different possibilities. Stu
Thanks Stu
Appreciate your advice Stu. I do usually only apply about 30 secs. of glowplug. The Universal manual sais 30-60 depending upon outside temperature. We usually leave cruising very early in the morning which is quite cool here in the NW, so I make sure things are warm before attempting a start. Of course, I don't use the plugs when the engine is warm. This phenomena I describe has occured when I have depressed the glow plugs for 15-30 seconds as well as when I depress for 60 seconds. I have brand new batteries which are almost always topped up to full. So I don't think its a battery drain issue (but you never know). Also, I always release the glow plug button before pushing the start button (per the manual). Curious, what benefit would this "glow plug solenoid" have - are you saying not having it could be the reason for this phenomena, or is it another type of benefit (less glow plug time). Finally, I appreciate your referral to this being a safety hazard - I agree I'd hate to not be able to start, but for 2 years now it has always started so I'm not too concerned ------- yet...
Appreciate your advice Stu. I do usually only apply about 30 secs. of glowplug. The Universal manual sais 30-60 depending upon outside temperature. We usually leave cruising very early in the morning which is quite cool here in the NW, so I make sure things are warm before attempting a start. Of course, I don't use the plugs when the engine is warm. This phenomena I describe has occured when I have depressed the glow plugs for 15-30 seconds as well as when I depress for 60 seconds. I have brand new batteries which are almost always topped up to full. So I don't think its a battery drain issue (but you never know). Also, I always release the glow plug button before pushing the start button (per the manual). Curious, what benefit would this "glow plug solenoid" have - are you saying not having it could be the reason for this phenomena, or is it another type of benefit (less glow plug time). Finally, I appreciate your referral to this being a safety hazard - I agree I'd hate to not be able to start, but for 2 years now it has always started so I'm not too concerned ------- yet...
Glow Plug Solenoid
Cedric The link is the reference. It's only to reduce time holding the button, nothing else. "phenomena" should be eliminated from "operational" issues. You need it to work all the time. This one sounds like real "detective" work. Anything intermittent is usually difficult to diagnose. Could also be something as "simple" as a new start button, since you've checked the connections already. Stu
Cedric The link is the reference. It's only to reduce time holding the button, nothing else. "phenomena" should be eliminated from "operational" issues. You need it to work all the time. This one sounds like real "detective" work. Anything intermittent is usually difficult to diagnose. Could also be something as "simple" as a new start button, since you've checked the connections already. Stu
- Status