starting engine first time in 2 years.

sailingdog · Jan 22, 2009

If it has been sitting, unused, for two years, I'd first try hand cranking it to see if it even turns. To do this, you will probably need to engage the decompression levers on the cylinders. This will also move oil through the engine and lubricate the internal surfaces, which are probably pretty dry given the long period of disuse. If the engine wasn't fogged, it may have some issues.

My question is why did the owner say "The insurance required that I made every effort to recover it." Was the boat submerged or sunk? Was this a salvage boat? I can't see a 40' boat in good condition going for $9,000, even if it is a Hunter, unless it was a salvage boat in some way. If the boat was sunk at one point, which may be why the cabin was dismantled and professionally cleaned... then the engine might have some serious issues.

As for getting water to the engine, yes, the heat exchanger needs to have water flowing through it. The easiest way is to take the hose from the raw water strainer and run it up into the cockpit and into a five gallon bucket. Then run a hose from a faucet into the same bucket. You don't want to put pressurized water into the hose in the engine... just allow it to take water up from the bucket at the rate it requires...

If the engine turns over by hand... then there's a good chance it will start. If it doesn't move... then you've got some issues.

brobins75 said:
hey all, Ive been working on restoring this 40' hunter legend for about a year now. Its a beautiful boat. It took on water. I stole it from the \
previous owner for $9k. he had the entire cabin professionally steam cleaned, and dismantled the cabin. I have rewired, plumbed, and reassembled the cabin. When i bought her, i was told that the engine was pickled, run, and pickled again, and it "should run, but no guarantees". I think i misunderstood.I recently contacted the previous owner and this is what he said:

"Sounds Like you have been pretty Busy! Great to here that you have made so much progress. The engine was brought back to working
order by Deaton.s It was flushed and was running again. The insurance required that I made every effort to recover it. I actually
saw it running. I recommend that you drain the oil and look at it. Also, I have the dodger still for the boat if interested.. It would not fit the new [boat]."

So, any recommendations before I go turn the key? I know the control cables arent hooked up, but i guess they arent necessary for a test start. Also, I see something odd inside the resevoir on top of the engine (dont know what to call it? it has a radiator type cap on top and im not talking about the plastic coolant overflow resevoir. I guess it is a radiator?). Anyway, it looks like blue/green crystals kinda sticking around the interior of this chamber when I look through the cap. I am certain this is part of
the cooling system. My thoughts are that it is remnants of coolant? will it hurt anything? should I fill this up with coolant? I know my engine is
freshwater cooled. it is a 86 44hp yanmar. engine has been sitting about 2 years w/o running. Oil looks brand new. all new filters. I am on the hard at the moment, and i believe that raw water is required even though the engine is fresh cooled. How can I get water to the engine with a hose?
thanks!

kloudie1 · Jan 22, 2009

Congrats on the boat.. If you aren’t a gear head ya might want to find a boat friend who is for this ..
Dog is pretty much right on about he bucket water supply! What you see when you look under the radiator cap is the shroud of the heat exchanger tube bundle. That should be full of coolant.. quality anti freeze mixed about 50% with water.. .. The drain fittings on the block may still be open .. when ya start filling, you’ll find them. I believe there are 4. Something to check after you’ve put the coolant in.. rotate the coolant pump.. I’m not familiar with that engine, but I think it is belt driven by the alternator belt. Change the oil and filter .. cold is OK for this trial if you can get it out. Pull the compression release levers and spin it by hand.. Try to get some WD40 into the suction side after removing the air cleaner (the element needs to be replaced).. DO NOT re engage the compression levers because it may start on the WD 40.. keep that in mind. After you have it free, remove the little water hose back on the exhaust mixing elbow.. If it was running when shut down, the fuel system probably does not need bleeding. Now spin it with the starter until the oil pressure warning beeper stops.. Make sure water was coming out of the hose back by the exhaust ell, and that she was spinning freely (transmission in neutral) .. Now replace the water hose and flip the compression levers and hit the starter button.. Should go..

Tim R. · Jan 22, 2009

You say no control cables. Make sure the fuel cut off cable is connected. Otherwise you may have more trouble stopping it than starting it.

What you should realise though is that even if the engine starts and drives the boat, you may want to think of repowering anyway. I would be very leary of the reliability of an engine with this history.

Seattle Scott · Jan 22, 2009

Also, I see something odd inside the resevoir on top of the engine (dont know what to call it? it has a radiator type cap on top and im not talking about the plastic coolant overflow resevoir. I guess it is a radiator?). Anyway, it looks like blue/green crystals kinda sticking around the interior of this chamber when I look through the cap. I am certain this is part of
the cooling system. My thoughts are that it is remnants of coolant? will it hurt anything? should I fill this up with coolant? I know my engine is
freshwater cooled. it is a 86 44hp yanmar. engine has been sitting about 2 years w/o running. Oil looks brand new. all new filters. I am on the hard at the moment, and i believe that raw water is required even though the engine is fresh cooled. How can I get water to the engine with a hose?
thanks![/quote]

check out this thread for a diagram of the cooling sytem and some photos of the heat exchanger, at the end of the thread . Also I think there is a link there to the whole engine manual, asusming you have the 4JHE Yanmar.
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=104388&highlight=heat+exchanger

sailaway78 · Jan 22, 2009

I highly recommend

That you ask around and try to find someone familiar with diesel engines in boats. No offense, but from your descriptions, I don't get the feeling you know very much about them. Find someone in the yard, who is knowledgable and will help, and if you can't, hire a mechanic to go over things with you. These engines are pretty simple, but can be destroyed by lack of cooling or oil pressure. Also no one mentioned that the raw water used for cooling, can back up into the manifold and flood the engine should you spin the engine over for a little bit without it starting. Do yourself a favor and spring for the bucks if necessary, to get some qualified help before you fire this baby off. Engine replacement could very well cost more than the boat did. Best of luck on your project, and welcome to the board.

Chuckbear · Jan 22, 2009

I would highly recommend you get the service manual and parts manual for the engine. you can get them from any Yanmar dealer. No matter how good the liquid looks I think you should start here. Drain all of the coolant in the system now. The manual will help with this since there are several drains on the engine both fresh and raw water. Flush the FW side with a hose and get out as much of the old stuff out as you can. Replenish it with a straight 50/50 coolant. Next change the raw water pump impellor. Do a complete oil and filter change. Change the filter in the Racor if you have not done that yet. Disconnect the fuel line from the tank and get a fresh 5 gallon jug of clean diesel. Be sure the engine cut off is working via cable or electric solenoid. Stick the fuel line deep into the diesel jug. It is important to not let it suck air. Turn the engine over a couple of times with the stop button or cable engaged. You don't want it to start. Let it sit for 10 minutes. Then fire it up and make sure the water is discharging from the exhaust. This may take a minute so be patient but not too long. If it starts, great, let it run for 5 minutes then shut it down. next you will need to deal with the fuel tank and control cables. Good luck and let me know if I can help. I am in Beaufort.

Chuckbear · Jan 22, 2009

Regarding the wires disconnected, these could be starter wires, alternator wires or sensors for temp and oil pressure. Again the manuals will give you all of that info. If the starter wires and ignition wires are not connected you will have trouble starting and if the alternator wires are not connected or done wrong you will fry the alternator if it is working. I would suggest you take it to a alternator shop and have it tested. The sensors won't matter since initially you won't run the engine long. Good luck

Chuckbear · Jan 22, 2009

I assume you mean the shop manual, since the owners manual is worthless. I suggest you also get the parts manual since it will give you a breakdown of all of the parts in case you need to take something apart or put it back together. Good luck and if we get up that way will surely stop by.

Maine Sail · Jan 22, 2009

sailingdog said:
As for getting water to the engine, yes, the heat exchanger needs to have water flowing through it. The easiest way is to take the hose from the raw water strainer and run it up into the cockpit and into a five gallon bucket. Then run a hose from a faucet into the same bucket. You don't want to put pressurized water into the hose in the engine... just allow it to take water up from the bucket at the rate it requires....

What Dog said!

You should NEVER connect a hose directly to a raw water intake! Use an in out bucket.

Using an in/out bucket is EASY!

Hose to in/out bucket:

Feed hose & engine intake hose (the clamps help keep the hoses in place):

Setting up an in out bucket takes less than a minute and a half.

A) Close seacock if you are still in the water.

B) Loosen the two hose clamps on the intake side of the strainer.

C) Pull off the hose.

D) Connect hose to in/out bucket and snug up with one hose clamp.

Running the engine:

1) Insert garden hose into 5 gal bucket, fill it, and leave it running. The bucket will over flow and drain out the cockpit drains.

2) Start engine & then very quickly stick hose leading to the engine to bottom of bucket and make sure the hose primes.

3) Run engine. Moving the throttle up will increase suction and water use moving it to idle will slow it.

4) Pull engine hose from bucket then wait about 10 seconds pull the stop lever. This clears the intake hose to prevent siphoning but does not run the impeller dry..

Done..

Some words of caution:

#1 If your 5 gal bucket is located higher than your engines siphon-break, NEVER, DON'T & DO NOT shut the engine off without pulling the intake/sea strainer hose from the bucket and letting it suck dry or down below the level of the siphon break!!

Always pull the hose and let the impeller suck the remaining water from the hose before shutting down the engine.

Why?

If your bucket is above the engines siphon break your engine can, and will, fill with water and you will hydro-lock it. This is not good and will require many, many oil changes, like seven to ten, with filters, to get rid of all the water in the engine. It may not happen the first time but it will and can eventually happen.

Please do yourself a favor and remove the hose from the bucket before you shut down if your bucket is ABOVE the engines siphon break!!!

Raw water pumps are NOT valves, are NOT a positive shut off and they do not stop gravity or siphoning. If your bucket is above the engines siphon break it will siphon and you can and will eventually have a hydro-lock situation where your cylinders fill with water.

If you do this in the cockpit, as most of us do, there is a very high likely hood that your engines siphon break is below the siphoning level of the bucket.. Please be careful running your engine on the hard.

#2 Never, ever connect a garden hose straight to your engine. The street pressure will not only blow out the seals of the water pump, but within seconds, even when running, it can hydro-lock an engine. Hydro locking is when the water in the exhaust system fills up and backs up into the engines cylinders! Water is NOT compressible like air.. Municipal water supplies can have street pressures as high as 100 psi. Use an in/out bucket to avoid serious damage!

This is an engine siphon break. If your in/out bucket is higher than the siphon break it can not break or stop the siphoning!!!! Pull the hose before shut down!!!

petersea · Jan 22, 2009

Lots of good info post already so just let me add that you will need to have good clean fuel. Often the yard (who pickled the engine) will NOT have cleaned the tank but set up a "test" tank . Respectfully submit you need to know what if anything was done to fuel tank after boat was submerged. Either clean out tank,( not a bad idea anyway since boat has been sitting for two years and who knows if and when it was ever done) or set up a test tank of new clean fuel if you just want to test run the engine but somewhere along the reconstruction process you will need to address the fuel tank if it was underwater ! The two fuel lines you talk about from the tank,one is a supply line (to the engine filter then fuel pump) and the other is the fuel return line from engine to the tank. It sounds like they may have used a test tank to run the engine after it was pickled, you may want to think about a new fuel tank as a permanent repair......

Ron20324 · Jan 22, 2009

An update to Kloudie: if you add anti-freeze, the preference is to mix it 50/50 with DISTILLED water. No nasty things or chemicals in distilled water.

Chuckbear · Jan 22, 2009

Ron20324 said:
An update to Kloudie: if you add anti-freeze, the preference is to mix it 50/50 with DISTILLED water. No nasty things or chemicals in distilled water.

If you buy premixed 50/50 do not add anything to it. Straight anti-freeze should be mixed 50/50 with distilled water. I prefer the 50/50 premix. Stay with the recommended anti-freeze for that engine. There are some that can damage the engine.

Ed Schenck · Jan 23, 2009

Wow, if I had to have another project boat that would be the one. You have gotten so much good information here that you should not go wrong.

To ease the fuel concern you could use a two-gallon outboard tank for your first start test. Cut off the end of that hose and connect directly to the Racor. With a few squeezes of the bulb you won't even have to bleed anything.

But you do want to take the advice regarding thoroughly checking and cleaning the entire fuel system.

I used to race powerboats, mostly outboards. I can't tell you how many of those engines were under water. We pulled the plugs, shot carbon-tet through the carbs, couple pulls of the cord, and they were ready to run. Point is that water in or around a motor does very little damage. Now the electrical around the motor is another story.

Maine Sail · Jan 23, 2009

Ed Schenck said:
Point is that water in or around a motor does very little damage. Now the electrical around the motor is another story.

Unless of course water is sucked into the motor whilst running..

With two strokes it is very easy to get them going again with no crank case or fluids to change. Four strokes are a different beast and if you fill a cylinder with water on a diesel, while it is running, there are very good odds you will bend a rod, damage the crank etc. etc..

If the motor was only partially submerged, like the OP's, a little rust and a couple of tranny fluid and motor oil changes would get her back in shape..

starting engine first time in 2 years.

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