starboard as a building material

[zeehag]

was repairing my deck and the hardware thereon, and i find i have to replace my now destroyed teakwood plate that was under the windlass. has any of you with windlasses used this material for this purpose?? seems it may just be the thing--- ideas and comments????
\ what do you guys think......will it be appropriate for this function?

 

[RAD]

Seems like it would work and never rot.....your talking about 3/4 or thicker stuff

 

[Hermit Scott]

Isn't it tough to get any sealant to stick to it? But I think using butyl to seal it instead of 4200 or whatever will give you satisfactory results. After all it sticks to glass and seals it well. I would be interested to hear what the experienced trying to seal starboard to fiberglass have to say about this.
I built a bow roller out of pvc sheet and some other more plyable plastic that is UV stabilized. I potted the mounting holes and used 4200 to seal it, but since it's over the anchor locker if it does leak it doesn't matter.
What's under the windlass?

 

[zeehag]

rad--is why i thought about it-- hermit-- i was considering that--is why i presented here--- guys--have any of you had this idea and tried it out?? what seals well with it-- do i need to use g flex epoxy?. (sticks to waxy plastics)--which would essentially make a permanent seal - would last until the deck no longer is one.

below the windlass is the anchor locker--which doesnt have a drain for water... eeps-- but not much water usually gets in there unless there is a problem with the boat-- which i am repairing..LOL..kinda is why the windlass isnt mounted anymore for a minuet...the backing plate for the entire bow was rotted and now is being replaced. ...after this job is finished i will redo chainplates and packing gland and leave san diego. will have pix and all later....atleast i can sail this boat and shoot pix at same time--not too much of a handful.

 

[Tim Huss]

I fabricated all new ports with starboard they machined well and seem to work well ... the only problems I had was keeping the machined edges clean I polished them to a good gloss but they still were tough to keep clean, the biggest issue was keeping them sealed I tried silicone, but the different types of material with dark lexan windows had to much thermal movement. after the first
season the started to leak as nothing seems to bond to it very well I should have thought more about butyl or a neoprene gasket. I would have had better luck with keeping the weather out. I decide to use the outside piece as a mold and pulled fiberglass pieces and glassed them in permanently to the out side with plans on using the inside pieces sealed with buytil tape... that being said I think it would be a great replacement for your teak just take extra care with the sealing and it should last for ever.

 

[Steve Dion]

Starboard has very little structural strength. The nice part about it is that it can be worked like wood. There is also a product called Plasteak that look a little more like wood. It may be a better product to blend in with you vessel.

 

[Ross]

wood is also nice. there is white oak, black locust, port oxforcd cedar, alaska yellow cedar. And several others that are durable and available. Or you can lay up a thick pad of resin and glass.

 

[Hermit Scott]

I hardly build anything using wood anymore. I did this last night. The top is 3/4" PVC. I love how plastic machines. And you don't have to finish it.
This is for a sailrite zigzag machine that's coming wednesday. I'll cut the recess out when it gets here.
If I were going to make a riser plate for a windlass, I would definitely use UV stabilized plastic. I am not sure why starboard is so expensive but I don't buy it because of that. I don't know if it's magic or what, but the plastic I have been using seems to be working fine.

 

[zeehag]

if i have a full backing plate below the deck for windlass and staysail mounting and installations, would the pad under the windlass still need to be structural rather than merely for positioning now??

i love wood--i just cant get to the marine lumber store--is too far for my car...i have to use my resources here...

 

[Cayennita]

Try Red Hand. Trilux and or Detco makes it. Years ago I worked on wooden mine sweepers and we fixed wood problems with it. The decks were teak and we glued a sonar winch to the deck with it and it passed the adhesion test by using a crane to try to lift it off. it is a 2 part putty mixed 50/50 and it is red. Also used to to repair heat exchanger shells as well as pitted rudder shafts

 

[Bill Roosa]

Low mechanical strenght and creep

The windlass will see some significant loads. Depending on exactly where the starboard is being used and how the loads are transiting it you may be setting yourself up for failure.
If you have a picture I could put my "engineer eye" on it and tell you.

As a general rule you do not want to use "creepy" materials when the load would try to pull the bolt/nut/washers through it perpendicular to the surface. Pulling parallel to the surface MAY be OK but you need enough bolt area (length of bolt in contact with the starboard times the diameter of the bolt shaft times the number of bolts) to resist the creep. Creep will result in the structure failing in the perpendicular case and elongated holes in the parallel case.

How is the starboard being held to the deck? That has to be just as strong as the fasteners that hold the starboard to the windlass.

 

[Hermit Scott]

The windlass will see some significant loads. Depending on exactly where the starboard is being used and how the loads are transiting it you may be setting yourself up for failure.
If you have a picture I could put my "engineer eye" on it and tell you.

As a general rule you do not want to use "creepy" materials when the load would try to pull the bolt/nut/washers through it perpendicular to the surface. Pulling parallel to the surface MAY be OK but you need enough bolt area (length of bolt in contact with the starboard times the diameter of the bolt shaft times the number of bolts) to resist the creep. Creep will result in the structure failing in the perpendicular case and elongated holes in the parallel case.

How is the starboard being held to the deck? That has to be just as strong as the fasteners that hold the starboard to the windlass.

If it had wood in the first place, it has to be alright with 1/2" of pvc. That stuff is so tough it is hard on router bits. After all, the boat is made of plastic.

 

[zeehag]

ok guys-- i think i got it--i think i need to use apiece of wood-- the lofrans windlass sits on the wood abaft my bits/samson posts, and a tad to stbd, on the deck. under the deck is a huge backing plate if 3/4-7/8 in laminate we are making . that replaces a dead , wet rotted backing plate that went from the point /stem to abaft the first bulkhead, in the forepeak. the torque/twist factor may , yes, be too great for starboard. is also too great for making one piece of two...would the backing piece help keep the torque/twist to a minimum? the bit of wood was glued to deck, with this huge backing wood below the deck, making up the headliner, as it were, in my anchor locker to forepeak bulkhead......

what about hardwood from dixieline with penetrating epoxy??? to use as a plate on deck?

i think that red hand stuff may have a crew position on my boat for life--where do i get that stuff!!!!!

 

[Steve Dion]

Zee:

If you can post a photo or two maybe there could be more informed advise coming your way! <g>

 

[sailaway78]

Starboard

I don't think I would use the starboard, in this application. There are some pretty good compression and shear loads on that puppy. Go for a really good hunk of wood. Small piece so should be able to find something better for low bucks. Next couple of days, I'll see if I can find a hunk of cypress, if you'll send dimensions.

 

[zeehag]

cypress rocks!!!! is 8 1/2in X11 in... a square foot would be perfect, X 1/2-3/4 in thick..i can round the corners and fit it....LOL wow cypress.... awesome!!! even mo bedda than teak!!!

 

[Ross]

N&E, all heart, no sap, old growth if you can find it. Let me know if you can't I have a little.

 

[zeehag]

ooooohhh--yummmmm... ty !!!! the deck is , itself, 5/8 in plus the 7/8 inch backing plate we laminating for it, backs up the entire foredeck. so deck there is essentially 1 1/2 or so inch wood with fiberglass overlay, both sides--looks like they did mat inside and roving outside..with the wood under the windlass, add the 1/2 to 3/4 in block.... is purrty thick -- will stand up to the job!!

 

[RichH]

Polymer structurals have 'problems': Creep
Creep is permanent deformation under constant compressive or tensile stress.

The second issue would be its thermal expansion coefficient of expansion .... quite high

Id be quite wary of using this stuff as a backing plate as 'suspiciously' the compressive strength and the creep values are MISSING from the manufacturers specifications. Hence, with the manufacturer NOT listing these values would seem to suggest that this stuff will deform under high stress over time plus it will generate a lot of stress when constrained due to thermal/heat expansion.

Simple speak: You'll risk the probability that it wont stay at constant dimension when under load and youll have to re-tighten your windlass to the deck quite 'often'.

http://www.kingplastic.com/CMS/Media/Docs/KingStarBoard.pdf

The value of 68 durometer .... means it has the 'softness' of a standard industrial rubber O-ring.

 

[Tim Huss]

if your gonna use wood I would stay away from soft woods, cypress is a great rot resistent wood but is is soft, i would stay with white oak, teak, or if you want it to outlast your boat use IPE it is rot resistent dense very strong, the only draw back is the density is so much it dosent float but the peice your using shouldnt matter there is a few mills that will ship small peices with no problem. personally I would lay up a glass piece and call it done,