Standing Rigging

pjacobs55 · Apr 25, 2009

One comment on Vega chainplates: they also hold the hull-deck joint together, using a deformed 'nub' on each leg of the chainplate, and a backing plate between the two legs of the inverted "U" chainplate. If these little 'nubs' are worn off, the deck is no longer squeezed down to the hull flange, and can buckle upwards.

Picture: http://www3.telus.net/sailing/tb1.jpg

So, everyone, check your 'nubs' ;-)

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

mageekenneth · Apr 25, 2009

Our vegas are are somewhere around 40 years old. I don't recall ever hearing of a "chunk of fiberglass" being torn loose, and aside from Steve Birch's forestay failure, I am not aware of any other rigging failures. The rigging on the Vega was designed by very competent people and engineered for all forseeable loads. Creature comfort was comprimised to allow for added strength andseaworthyness. Any oversizing of the rigging will add to weight up top and have a negative, albiet probably unnoticable affect on performance. Check your rigging often and replace it when needed @ regular intervals. No amount of reengineering and upsizing will ever take away the need for regular inspections and maintenance. But as always the thing I suppose is for each of us to do as we please and live with the results. Seems like an added headache and hassel. Fair winds

-

K.L.Magee

Vega1447 · Apr 28, 2009

Hi Peter
I have stared at your chainplate photo for 5 minutes and still dont see
the nubs!

What exactly do you mean?

Sorry if I am being obtuse...

Thanks

John

V1447 Breakaway

pjacobs55 wrote:

pjacobs55 · Apr 28, 2009

John,
They are little tabs that keep the plate squeezed to the deck, and are pretty small ... too small!
I'll get a close-up picture today. I understand the ones Steve Birch makes are more pronounced, hence do a better job.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

trevy_kins · Apr 28, 2009

Hey Gang, good to see so much activity on this site. I am not an
engineer; but don't those "nubs" simply serve to position of the u-bolts
while you tighten the nuts under the deck (over-tightening these would
serve no purpose)? It would surprise me if they were intended as an
integral part of the hull/deck joint which appears to be properly
through-bolted through other means.

Trevor (V2915)

________________________________

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of pjacobs55
Sent: April 28, 2009 12:03 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Nubs???

John,
They are little tabs that keep the plate squeezed to the deck, and are
pretty small ... too small!
I'll get a close-up picture today. I understand the ones Steve Birch
makes are more pronounced, hence do a better job.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

pjacobs55 · Apr 28, 2009

Trevor,
Where the chainplates bolt through the deck there are no hull~deck bolts, so they do assist in firmly clamping the hull~deck joint together. They're in step with the 5 1/2" spacing between the regular bolts, and like all good boat parts, serve more than one purpose

Picture http://www3.telus.net/sailing/chainplate2.jpg

The "nubs" are shown better in this picture:

http://www3.telus.net/sailing/chainplate3.jpg

In my opinion the nubs are undersized and there's a risk of pulling the u-shaped chainplate right through them if the nuts are overtightened. That said, it does not seem to be a problem on our well built boats.

The aluminum channel under the hull~deck joint is about 4' long, starting at the forward chainplate, and extending aft to the second bolt aft of the rearmost chainplate .... quite a substantial support.

My channels are coated with some sort of gray paint, and have not corroded.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

SVFlyAway · Apr 28, 2009

I had Brion Toss Rigging install my new mast and redo all my rigging. Brion
and I pulled things apart and his comment on the rigging connection, using
the ubolt and channel underneath what that this method was used on several
different designs and that most failed. He said it looked at if the Vega was
the exception and that nothing need be changed. Overall he seemed impressed
with the way Albin did things on the Vega.

I doubt the "nubs" could be pulled through the stainless plates.

On the other thread, rigging sizes. Brion used 1/4" for the uppers and one
size down the the lowers (probably 7/32, but I don't have my specs handy). I
asked him why and he said that is what the formulas called for and there was
no sense in going larger on this boat.

pjacobs55 · Apr 29, 2009

When I re-bedded my chain plates last fall I too found the aluminum channel that anchors the shrouds quite corroded. I doubled it up with an aluminum strip. (The channel, one per side, anchors all 3 chainplates (upper and 2 lower shrouds) and is situated right under the deck.)

I would think anyone planning a hard cruise in a Vega ought to know the condition of those aluminum channels. You can see them from the cabin but you can't really inspect without disassembly. They are not so easy to inspect yet are obviously prone to galvanic corrosion (aluminum - stainless) when the chainplates leak, as they all will eventually.

Enough corrosion and the chainplates would effectively be anchored only by their nuts against the deck flange.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

This email is from a law firm and may contain information
that is privileged or confidential. If you suspect
you were not intended to receive this email,
please delete it and contact us.

From: Chris Brown
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:06 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Nubs???I had Brion Toss Rigging install my new mast and redo all my rigging. Brion
and I pulled things apart and his comment on the rigging connection, using
the ubolt and channel underneath what that this method was used on several
different designs and that most failed. He said it looked at if the Vega was
the exception and that nothing need be changed. Overall he seemed impressed
with the way Albin did things on the Vega.

I doubt the "nubs" could be pulled through the stainless plates.

On the other thread, rigging sizes. Brion used 1/4" for the uppers and one
size down the the lowers (probably 7/32, but I don't have my specs handy). I
asked him why and he said that is what the formulas called for and there was
no sense in going larger on this boat.

tom_rutter · Apr 29, 2009

Am I getting something wrong here? Surely the 'nubs' serve a lot less of a
structural purpose once the up-force of the rigging is applied to the
chainplates? It seems like you're suggesting that we shouldn't tighten the
nuts underneath too much, which makes sense to me. Am I right?
I suppose I'm saying that they don't really have to take dynamic loads when
we're sailing (unlike the plate under the deck) so maybe they don't need to
be super strong.

Tom

2009/4/29 Nico Walsh nwalsh@...

pjacobs55 · Apr 29, 2009

You are right. The nubs allow the chainplate U bolts to serve as through bolts for the hull deck flange and they hold down that little upper plate that is part of the U bolts so the bedding compound (placed under the little plate) can get a good squeeze. That's all. The rig load is taken by the aluminum channels that anchor the U bolts (in conjunction with the U bolts nuts and washers).Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

This email is from a law firm and may contain information
that is privileged or confidential. If you suspect
you were not intended to receive this email,
please delete it and contact us.

From: Tom Rutter
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:52 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Nubs???Am I getting something wrong here? Surely the 'nubs' serve a lot less of a
structural purpose once the up-force of the rigging is applied to the
chainplates? It seems like you're suggesting that we shouldn't tighten the
nuts underneath too much, which makes sense to me. Am I right?
I suppose I'm saying that they don't really have to take dynamic loads when
we're sailing (unlike the plate under the deck) so maybe they don't need to
be super strong.

Tom

2009/4/29 Nico Walsh nwalsh@...

vegatern · Apr 29, 2009

I've uploaded a photo of my new chainplates to the miscellaneous folder in the photo section. The original chainplate, on the left, was bedded with what appeared to be an oil based caulk which dissolves, if given time, with a penetrating oil like PB Blaster or WD-40. Patience helps also.

The hull/deck joint in the vicinity of the shrouds on my boat shows just a bit of a grin. It appears that the deck is being pulled upwards away from the hull. Hardly enough to show, It's just not an even line there. The channel, plates, nuts were tight and sound. I remember having seen a reference to this in one of Sidney Rosen's newsletters. It may have something to do with the previous owner racing the boat, and cinching the rigging up tight.
Craig Tern 1519

pelagicasd · Apr 30, 2009

Lyric had the deck lift problem also. She didn't have channels. A piece of aluminium flat stock was used instead. About the same width and length of the channel but probably around 1/4" (6mm) thick. I removed the nuts but couldn't get the wishbone, U bolt, V bolt or whatever you want to call it out on either side. They were permantly stuck! I'm a pretty mechanical kind of guy and tried everything from hammering from underneath while heating the bolt and using a spanish windlass on top. they just wouldn't come out.
Lyric may now be the only Vega with actual chainplates. I cut the the bolts flush and fabricated the plates out of stainless flat stock. They have worked well.

Now about the man overboard thing. We had a MOB pole mounted to the lifeline in such a way that anyone in the cockpit could pull a handle which would drop a small sea anchor over the side. The sea anchor would pull the MOB pole, an automatic stobe and a package containing a belt pack inflatable vest with whistle, flares etc.
The strobe we used had a sealed battery. It has died and replacements cost a bunch. I had found what I thought would be a good replacement on E Bay a while back but I was out bid. I found another one a couple of weeks ago with a buy it now price of $25.00 and $9.00 shipping. It was new in the box and never issued U. S. Navy surplus. Manufacture date was 1983. It runs on a single D cell and works great. I'll mount it on one of the cockpit stancions.
The fellow selling it has a 100% satisfaction rating and does have several more which he's listing at the same price that I paid.
Just thought I'd mention it for any one looking for a very affordable strobe. Walt, Lyric

To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: vegatern@...
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:34:52 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Nubs???

I've uploaded a photo of my new chainplates to the miscellaneous folder in the photo section. The original chainplate, on the left, was bedded with what appeared to be an oil based caulk which dissolves, if given time, with a penetrating oil like PB Blaster or WD-40. Patience helps also.

The hull/deck joint in the vicinity of the shrouds on my boat shows just a bit of a grin. It appears that the deck is being pulled upwards away from the hull. Hardly enough to show, It's just not an even line there. The channel, plates, nuts were tight and sound. I remember having seen a reference to this in one of Sidney Rosen's newsletters. It may have something to do with the previous owner racing the boat, and cinching the rigging up tight.
Craig Tern 1519

pjacobs55 · May 1, 2009

I used an auto jack to pull the U bolts. Put it on a board so not to damage the deck and then passed a strap though the U bolt and around the top of the jack. I tried this after trying everything else and it worked well, took a great deal of tension to pull them.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

This email is from a law firm and may contain information
that is privileged or confidential. If you suspect
you were not intended to receive this email,
please delete it and contact us.

From: walt/judy brown/allore
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:27 PM
To: albinvega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Nubs & Man overboard
Lyric had the deck lift problem also. She didn't have channels. A piece of aluminium flat stock was used instead. About the same width and length of the channel but probably around 1/4" (6mm) thick. I removed the nuts but couldn't get the wishbone, U bolt, V bolt or whatever you want to call it out on either side. They were permantly stuck! I'm a pretty mechanical kind of guy and tried everything from hammering from underneath while heating the bolt and using a spanish windlass on top. they just wouldn't come out.
Lyric may now be the only Vega with actual chainplates. I cut the the bolts flush and fabricated the plates out of stainless flat stock. They have worked well.

Now about the man overboard thing. We had a MOB pole mounted to the lifeline in such a way that anyone in the cockpit could pull a handle which would drop a small sea anchor over the side. The sea anchor would pull the MOB pole, an automatic stobe and a package containing a belt pack inflatable vest with whistle, flares etc.
The strobe we used had a sealed battery. It has died and replacements cost a bunch. I had found what I thought would be a good replacement on E Bay a while back but I was out bid. I found another one a couple of weeks ago with a buy it now price of $25.00 and $9.00 shipping. It was new in the box and never issued U. S. Navy surplus. Manufacture date was 1983. It runs on a single D cell and works great. I'll mount it on one of the cockpit stancions.
The fellow selling it has a 100% satisfaction rating and does have several more which he's listing at the same price that I paid.
Just thought I'd mention it for any one looking for a very affordable strobe. Walt, Lyric

To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: vegatern@...
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:34:52 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Nubs???

I've uploaded a photo of my new chainplates to the miscellaneous folder in the photo section. The original chainplate, on the left, was bedded with what appeared to be an oil based caulk which dissolves, if given time, with a penetrating oil like PB Blaster or WD-40. Patience helps also.

The hull/deck joint in the vicinity of the shrouds on my boat shows just a bit of a grin. It appears that the deck is being pulled upwards away from the hull. Hardly enough to show, It's just not an even line there. The channel, plates, nuts were tight and sound. I remember having seen a reference to this in one of Sidney Rosen's newsletters. It may have something to do with the previous owner racing the boat, and cinching the rigging up tight.
Craig Tern 1519

pelagicasd · May 1, 2009

I forgot to mention where to find the man overboard strobe. It's listed in E Bay motors under boat parts. It's the one with the buy it now price of $25.00. If it has been sold keep checking back as he has more and will be listing others. Walt Lyric
To: albinvega@yahoogroups.com
From: bestvega@...
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 01:27:42 +0000
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Re: Nubs & Man overboardLyric had the deck lift problem also. She didn't have channels. A piece of aluminium flat stock was used instead. About the same width and length of the channel but probably around 1/4" (6mm) thick. I removed the nuts but couldn't get the wishbone, U bolt, V bolt or whatever you want to call it out on either side. They were permantly stuck! I'm a pretty mechanical kind of guy and tried everything from hammering from underneath while heating the bolt and using a spanish windlass on top. they just wouldn't come out.
Lyric may now be the only Vega with actual chainplates. I cut the the bolts flush and fabricated the plates out of stainless flat stock. They have worked well.

Now about the man overboard thing. We had a MOB pole mounted to the lifeline in such a way that anyone in the cockpit could pull a handle which would drop a small sea anchor over the side. The sea anchor would pull the MOB pole, an automatic stobe and a package containing a belt pack inflatable vest with whistle, flares etc.
The strobe we used had a sealed battery. It has died and replacements cost a bunch. I had found what I thought would be a good replacement on E Bay a while back but I was out bid. I found another one a couple of weeks ago with a buy it now price of $25.00 and $9.00 shipping. It was new in the box and never issued U. S. Navy surplus. Manufacture date was 1983. It runs on a single D cell and works great. I'll mount it on one of the cockpit stancions.
The fellow selling it has a 100% satisfaction rating and does have several more which he's listing at the same price that I paid.
Just thought I'd mention it for any one looking for a very affordable strobe. Walt, Lyric

To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: vegatern@...
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:34:52 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Nubs???

I've uploaded a photo of my new chainplates to the miscellaneous folder in the photo section. The original chainplate, on the left, was bedded with what appeared to be an oil based caulk which dissolves, if given time, with a penetrating oil like PB Blaster or WD-40. Patience helps also.

The hull/deck joint in the vicinity of the shrouds on my boat shows just a bit of a grin. It appears that the deck is being pulled upwards away from the hull. Hardly enough to show, It's just not an even line there. The channel, plates, nuts were tight and sound. I remember having seen a reference to this in one of Sidney Rosen's newsletters. It may have something to do with the previous owner racing the boat, and cinching the rigging up tight.
Craig Tern 1519

pjacobs55 · May 1, 2009

Thanks, Walt ... good stuff!
Here's a link to one that's still for sale:

http://tinyurl.com/cfa75m

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

pelagicasd · May 2, 2009

Hi Peter, Thats the guy selling them. I'm sure he will be pleased that you added the link. Walt
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: prjacobs@...
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:56:28 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Man overboard

Thanks, Walt ... good stuff!
Here's a link to one that's still for sale:

http://tinyurl.com/cfa75m

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

ke.sharp01 · Apr 23, 2014

Several months ago, I purchased my first Albin Vega, which I'm refitting in hopes of crossing the pacific. The standing rigging being rusted and worn is the focus of my attention right now.I'm looking to replace all the standing rigging with 6mil 316 series 1X19 stainless steel wire. The question I have is about the terminal connectors. I was originally hoping to use Sta-loks or Norsmen fittings because of there ease of use, reusability and strength, then I saw the price of them. Now that I'm considering alternatives, does anyone have any thoughts on the use of Nicropress sleeves for off shore use?My original feeling on them was that there is to much load concentrated at the top of the "eye", rather then being spread out through the length of the wire, and the bend in the wire goes against it's design principal. I've seen other boats use this system however, and opinions seem to vary greatly.Any other thoughts on "affordable" rigging is well appreciated.

tiempo2010 · Apr 23, 2014

If you are going to use mechanical fittings use them at the bottom only. Use swages at the top where corrosion isn't an issue. If you do use mechanical fittings Hayn Hi Mods are better then Norseman and Sta Lok as well as a bit less expensive.
Or use swages top and bottom for less expense. NicroPress is best suited to lifelines.