Standard stuffing box seal repacking?

[Woodworks1]

My stuffing box seal packing nut has bottomed out, I think. it feels like the nut has bottomed out and really hard to turn probably 40 pounds of pressure to get it to adjusted to two drops per minute when idling the last time I did it. Has been leaking over the summer and had to adjust it every hours of motoring time.
I’m looking to replace packing in the water
to get through the winter or pull it for the winner.
I picked this jewel a site up off of sailboat owners form I have made all the tools that he suggest.

Re-Packing A Traditional Stuffing Box - Marine How To

The Stuffing Box (click any image to see a larger version) While digging around in some old boat parts boxes I found a stuffing box from an older sailboat. I though it would be a good time to rig it up

marinehowto.com

I will contact the Marina before starting to insure that I can have it pulled relatively fast if things go wrong or put it on its own trailer my self. I wouldn’t mind having it out for the winter, but poor folks have poor ways.
Is there anything else I should think of before I start this process?

 

[Woodworks1]

It has the old bronze prop shaft in it still so I don’t know if there’s damage to the shaft at the seals bearing point yet. I guess I’ll find out.

 

[Alan Gomes]

How many rings of packing do you have in there?

 

[Woodworks1]

Allen,
Great question.
By the amount of threads left on the housing I think there were three and someone may have add a fourth one?? Would be a good place to start troubleshooting it at.
I tried to keep an eye on the temperature, but after speaking with someone in the business for 20 years. He seemed to think that two drops per minute is a little low and if they doesn’t leak just a little bit sitting in the slip it could damage the packing? I adjusted it to 2 drips per minute at cruise speed heading out to sail and also at ideal sometimes. I am new and know enough to be concerned dangerous.

 

[BigEasy]

Since you have a trailer & can haul it yourself, I would haul it out for winter & replace the packing with the boat out of the water. Will also provide an opportunity to inspect the shaft for scoring. I have repacked the stuffing box in water successfully on a previous boat; however, it’s a nerve wracking process that I wouldn’t want to repeat unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Woodworks1]

How hard should it be to adjust the package nut. If you over heat the packing does to become hard and wear down faster?

 

[Woodworks1]

Also I have the old bronze prop shaft to consider. It could have wear or maybe hard water buildup.
How and what should I use to clean it?
If I put in 4 rings when I replace them instead of the three would it give me a little more surface area on the shaft or cause more friction and over heat to deal with?

 

[Alan Gomes]

Allen,
Great question.
By the amount of threads left on the housing I think there were three and someone may have add a fourth one?? Would be a good place to start troubleshooting it at.
I tried to keep an eye on the temperature, but after speaking with someone in the business for 20 years. He seemed to think that two drops per minute is a little low and if they doesn’t leak just a little bit sitting in the slip it could damage the packing? I adjusted it to 2 drips per minute at cruise speed heading out to sail and also at ideal sometimes. I am new and know enough to be concerned dangerous.
View attachment 234749

Some thoughts on your post (not in any particular order).

I used to own a Catalina 30 with a conventional stuffing box. So I'm very familiar with the boat.

Number of rings: I would say 3 rings of packing is typical. The main thing is, you don't want it to leak excessively, nor do you want the packing nut to be too hot. I use the GoreTex GFO packing. It's a synthetic graphite-impregnated packing. It's pretty well indestructible in my experience.

All forms of packing require some water for lubrication. MaineSail points this out on his very excellent site, and Buck Algonquin tech support confirmed this to me in some email exchanges. As for how much water, see next point.

In gear and rotating: A "perfect" setting is just seeing some water glistening on the interface where the the propshaft exits the packing nut. It need not not actually drip but you should be able to observe the presence of water there. You can also adjust it so it drips a bit more. 2 drops per minute is certainly not too little; what you were told is wrong. (I presume the packing nut is not overheating.) You could just leave it at that and be fine; your bilge pump will remove water from the bilge that will eventually accumulate. You may just want to confirm the temps and call it good. At the dock, engine off: You may well find that after the boat sits at the dock for a while with the engine off, the drip rate slows down. That's all the better. So, what is a "perfect" setting would be just slightly weeping water while the engine is running in gear, and then not dripping when at the dock, engine off. If you don't get that exact result, then make it slightly looser and you'll be fine.

How hard to adjust the packing nut: The fact that you have to really apply pressure to tighten the packing nuts tells me something is wrong. I found that I had to go just a little beyond hand tight, if that. If you are having to wail on it to get the dripping down that suggest to me something is tweaked with the packing. In that case, I'd pull out the packing and start with new.

Replacing the packing in the water: I noticed in a following post the caution about replacing the packing in the water. That's the only way I've ever done it on three different boats, including my 1987 Catalina 30, essentially the identical boat to yours. I never had a bit of problem doing this. You do need to have a working bilge pump. I found the bilge pump *easily* kept up with the water ingress.

After you replace the packing: It will take several hours (10 or so?) for the packing to "break in" and set. I'd try "sneaking up" on the proper adjustment. Let it be a bit on the loose side to start with, dripping more than ideal, and then progressively tighten it as you put more hours on the packing. Once it's settled, you can get a good adjustment and then it will be fine for a long, long time. I find with the GoreTex, once I've got it dialed in I can leave it alone for literally years.

How hot is too hot? You can use an infrared thermometer to check the temp. You are checking the temperature of the packing nut. The range might be anywhere from around 80 deg. to 120 deg F. If it starts going above 120F then that's more than you want.

Hope this helps.

 

[Woodworks1]

BigEasy,
That would be best practice. I don’t have a wetsuit that fits anymore and the water temperature is dropping fast here. The Marina repair here family are long time friend said he could pull it fast if needed or come down to the dock and bail me out. So I am going to go for repacking it on the water.

 

[Woodworks1]

Allen,
That is a great tutorial. I think it’s like diving off the cliff into the water the first time.
I believe the packing has harden from age or heat. I am hoping the bronze prop shaft is in good shape under the old packing.
Bulge pump and float switch is just a year old.

 

[Woodworks1]

I have new packing at the boat and will stop and pick up another length on the way down.
A spare bulge pump and float switch at the boat.
I have also schedule a trip down next week because nothing on a boat is done right until it done twice.

Install a WiFi camera and WiFi high water alarm.
Also install a Nest thermostat that tell me the inside temperature and humidity and all three devices tell me what’s up on my phone.

I have a 120 to 24 volt AC transformer wired to the Nest thermostat that is wired to three 24 volt to 120 relay switch through the Nest to turn off and on what ever 120 V AC appliance I want or have it automatically do it by the temperature, humidity or timer.
A Nest thermostat is an AI / artificial intelligent device that artificially controls the environment to a human liking.

I was also told to put a forth one in and wait till spring. Not a good idea to put off things till spring that you could do this week.

 

[Woodworks1]

On second thought put a 4th one in this fall is a good idea. That way I can limp over to the fuel dock and fill up the diesel tank for the winter.Then snug up the packing nut for winter to stop water intrusion into the bilge.

This spring I can pulling all 4 out and put 3 new rings in and breaking them in properly, seems like the best course of action after sleeping on the problem.

That way I can jump off the shorter part of the bluff first and end up with a better outcome overall.
I really appreciate all you all here to help me thing things through and give me options I haven’t thought of on my own.
John

 

[kappykaplan]

This spring I can pulling all 4 out and put 3 new rings in and breaking them in properly, seems like the best course of action after sleeping on the problem.

That way I can jump off the shorter part of the bluff first and end up with a better outcome overall.

Love it when a plan comes together!

 

[Project_Mayhem]

This site has excellent pricing on GoreTex GFO packing. Two feet was enough for me to screw up a couple of times and then do the job correctly. The stuffing box on my C30 used 3/16"

 

[Woodworks1]

Every boat is copied from another boat... Let’s reason as follows in the manner of Darwin. It is clear that a very badly made boat will end up at the bottom after one or two voyages, and thus never be copied... One could then say, with complete rigor, that it is the sea herself who fashions the boats, choosing those which function and destroying the others."

-Émile-Auguste Chartier

 

[Woodworks1]

I have to give a special thank to Cody Shaw at Grand Mariner Yacht Service on Stockton Lake Missouri for giving me the information to think this through. He is wise beyond his years and has eclipsed his dad Reed Shaw owner of Grand Mariner for decades.
If not first Cody and family are always in the top three in all the races.
You all have given us the chance so that my wife might put the bow into the wind and I throw the rags up for one more sail this season.

 

[shemandr]

Woodworks1, have you read the Compass Marine article on re-packing a stuffing box? It is worth your time. It is very specific about how the stuffing should be cut, how to orient the junctions and how many layers. I wish I had read it before I did mine (In the water). I didn't do it to that standard but it was way better than the one ring that was existing.

 

[Woodworks1]

Shemandr,
Yes I did twice so far. Great tutorial I think it will be a great asset during the process.
I found a set of pick removal tools on the boat from the previous owner, Made the Home Made Packing Insertion Tool already.
The biggest problem is getting to the stuffing box. I have been removing the second engine cover under the galley sinks and drawers to gain more access. There were some modifications to ithe cover to get it out of the way. I started doing this while adjusting the shifter and accelerator cables. I started wearing knee pads while working on the boat also.

 

[OS2Dude]

My stuffing box seal packing nut has bottomed out, I think. it feels like the nut has bottomed out and really hard to turn probably 40 pounds of pressure to get it to adjusted to two drops per minute when idling the last time I did it. Has been leaking over the summer and had to adjust it every hours of motoring time.

Is there anything else I should think of before I start this process?

You should not just keep tightening the nut to the point it is hard to turn. And adding rings when the old one wear too much is no better. Packing material wears out, and it is a poor economy to save a few bucks by risking a thousand.

I always used 3 rings of 3/16 PTFE Flax packing on the 1" shaft on my 1985 Catalina 30. No Graphite, and no Green stuff. If you can get the boat out of the water, it will be easier, safer and less stressful, especially if the shaft has been scored. If the shaft or the stuffing box hose is damaged you will have to remove the shaft. I had to replace the original bronze shaft with a new stainless steel shaft and new coupler because the old shaft had seized to the iron coupler and I had already cut the hose to replace it. Marine-How-To's article has a lot of good advice, re-read it until you are familiar with all he says.

Be sure you do not turn the box in the tube. Get (Buy/Borrow/Rent) the correct wrenches for the job. Thick jawed tools wont fit, toothed jaws may damage the faces on the nut & box, slack jawed tools wont grip and may also round the corners of the box and lock nut. If the wrenches are too short to get the nut loose, put a pipe over the handles to give yourself more leverage. If you are on the hard, it would be a good time to replace the anodes and sleeve ('Cut-Less') bearing as well.

I just repacked the stuffing box on a new to me 1995 Catalina 36. It was very difficult to open (I had to use a 20" wrench while bracing another on the bilge wall) because they had also just kept over-tightening the nut. They had also used the Green 'drip-less' clay, but it had completely disintegrated and the box was streaming water even with the engine off. Thankfully the boat was on the hard because digging out the overly compressed old flax and all that green junk took a while.

 

[Woodworks1]

OS2Dude,
Thanks, just trying to figure this out.
You are right. i think I am only add the 4th ring as insurance now and will not be going out until stuffing box issues are resolved. I just got the boat with trailer and I don’t know when the trailer was serviced last. Going down to service breaks check bearings. Just dry docking it at the marina

The existing stuffing box packing and shaft are the unknown. So doing it in the water is not something I am willing to risk because of the old bronze shaft may also be damaged.

I have an underwater camera with light that I hope may limit my time in the water loading the boat.

It’s hard to see in the photo below but I made a flared nut wrench by cutting a 1 1/8” opening in the end of a 2” box end wrench for the packing nut, it’s the one on the shaft and also cut down a 1 13/16” wrench for the stop nut. Mine is 1 13/16” not 1 7/8”. They fit in the tight engine compartment and make adjustments on the stuffing box much easer. I made a couple of these short handled large line wrenches for working on our old backhoe hydraulic lines that were in tight spaces.

I appreciate all who have shared their knowledge.