SSB

[GeorgeB411]

SSB Ground

I think the easiest way to ground a SSB on a sailboat is to run 3" copper foil from the unit to the bolts on a lead or cast iron keel. Ground operates on capacitance so the keel being covered with fiberglass or bottom paint doesn't matter. I use a SEA 330, antenna tuner, and 23' whip stern mounted and put out a very good signal (atmosphere permitting). I have an add on digital signal processor to help clean up the excess noise.

KG4ILA
Irish Wake
Beneteau 411

 

[sailingdog]

If your bilge in normally wet, which is the case on some boats, don't run copper foil to anything you can not risk losing to galvanic corrosion.

I think the easiest way to ground a SSB on a sailboat is to run 3" copper foil from the unit to the bolts on a lead or cast iron keel. Ground operates on capacitance so the keel being covered with fiberglass or bottom paint doesn't matter. I use a SEA 330, antenna tuner, and 23' whip stern mounted and put out a very good signal (atmosphere permitting). I have an add on digital signal processor to help clean up the excess noise.

KG4ILA
Irish Wake
Beneteau 411

 

[windward54]

Hey, there is more than one way to skin a cat, or in this case get a radio signal out! That is what I like about the hobby and why we have the Social Group going for ham and SSB. We were able to get enough people participating that we have our own forum. You just have to join the group to actively join in the fun.

And my arms were not long enough to reach my keel bolts anyway!

I think the easiest way to ground a SSB on a sailboat is to run 3" copper foil from the unit to the bolts on a lead or cast iron keel. Ground operates on capacitance so the keel being covered with fiberglass or bottom paint doesn't matter. I use a SEA 330, antenna tuner, and 23' whip stern mounted and put out a very good signal (atmosphere permitting). I have an add on digital signal processor to help clean up the excess noise.

KG4ILA
Irish Wake
Beneteau 411

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Can't recall the source I found but somewhere in the archives there is a diagram I included showing how to install a counterpoise bonding the thruhull(s) in which capacitors are used to break the DC continuity to preclude electrolysis. In the diagram, it shows a small gap in the foil which breaks the DC but allows RF to cross the caps making it obviate Franklin's concern.

There are multiple ways to create a counterpoise without sacrificing integrity of a thruhull with varying degrees of efficacy but, as Karl said, connecting it to the keel bolts on a 40.5 is an impossibility.

 

[mutualfun]

I am like Karl. I am doing the work myself and installing the same SSB unit as he did, Icom M802 with a tuner. We have a 1990 Catalina 36. As of right now I have the tuner installed and the receiver. I had done a lot of research before hand but there is always more to learn. I had taken the mast down last winter and installed the backstay insulators to so I am able to use the back stay as an antenna.

Durning this past fall and this winter I was still searching out on the net for more info on setting the total system up and came accross a guy whcih goes by Dr John Gregory and he has a web site http://www.cruiseemail.com/rf_grounding.htm. We have shared many emails and I will say that he is a wealth of info if your a beginner as I am. He is not found of the insulated back stay becuse of the insulators in it. Something that he sells is a rope antenna,http://www.ropeantenna.com/

So I now have both but will try the back stay antenna out first and keep the rope antenna for a back up. Some of the parts I was going to install and how I was gong to hook thm up has changed as of talking to Dr John. He has a lot of good info if your willing to contact him. If your experienced you may not need him but being a newbie as I am I was very greatfull.

Randy Sherwood

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Randy - interesting concept -= a rope antenna.
I am always dubious when someone claims gain over another antenna, especially without citing any reference. The other question I might ask is why use ladder line for the counterpoise as there is no "skin effect" associated with it any more than would occur with two separate wires in proximity.
His spec section on that web site is a little short on specs and nothing about his gain claim.
I will try getting in contact with him to discuss the above and report what I learn if any one is interested.
Parenthetically, I wonder how it could it be used as a backup antenna if one loses the backstay and presumably the mast with it.

 

[windward54]

Hey Randy, like I said. Lots of ways to get it done.

I saw that website when I was working on setting up my rig. I got a chance to go over my plans with Gordon West when I took one of his classes. This is what he suggested, and I tried it as it took me all of about 30 minutes to install the copper foil. I figured little time and money invested, I could always change it out if it did not work.

www.kp44.org/ftp/SeawaterGroundingFor_HF_Radios_byGordonWest.pdf

Either way you go, the 802 is a great radio for the boat. I hope you are planning on getting the full use of that radio and are going to get your ham license. It is well worth it! And hope to hear you on the air soon!

I am like Karl. I am doing the work myself and installing the same SSB unit as he did, Icom M802 with a tuner. We have a 1990 Catalina 36. As of right now I have the tuner installed and the receiver. I had done a lot of research before hand but there is always more to learn. I had taken the mast down last winter and installed the backstay insulators to so I am able to use the back stay as an antenna.

Durning this past fall and this winter I was still searching out on the net for more info on setting the total system up and came accross a guy whcih goes by Dr John Gregory and he has a web site http://www.cruiseemail.com/rf_grounding.htm. We have shared many emails and I will say that he is a wealth of info if your a beginner as I am. He is not found of the insulated back stay becuse of the insulators in it. Something that he sells is a rope antenna,http://www.ropeantenna.com/

So I now have both but will try the back stay antenna out first and keep the rope antenna for a back up. Some of the parts I was going to install and how I was gong to hook thm up has changed as of talking to Dr John. He has a lot of good info if your willing to contact him. If your experienced you may not need him but being a newbie as I am I was very greatfull.

Randy Sherwood

 

[Bill Roosa]

Interesting antenna design

For those of you who are adventurous or don't have a back stay.

http://www.ropeantenna.com./

 

[Bill Roosa]

Ham or marine radio

I'm torn between the nice features of the marine band radios with one button distress and email and the access to greater number of frequencies.

I'm still doing my homework on which community would be best for a circumnavigation. I'm interested in safety, weather, email and tying in with the community in the area (area being folks on similar cruising tracks and within 500 miles)

Any body have an experience. I've got enough theories thanks.

Bill

 

[windward54]

Bill, you probably can do with either one. However, you legally can not operate a ham radio on marine SSB frequencies. Marine radios must be certified by the FCC. Ham equipment lacks the certification. My suggestion is to look into an ICOM M802, which can do both legally. The radio doesn't have all the bells and whistles of a comparable ham radio has for the price you have to pay, but you will operate legally as long as you have a boat radio license, a restricted operator's license and at least a ham general license.

I know there are those that use just a modified ham radio, and figure the FCC will never catch them. I figure with my luck, I would be the exception!

 

[Bill Roosa]

OK, but

I understand all the licensing stuff and now that the Morse code requirement has been dropped can get my ham license in short order. (I was up to 5 WPM when they dropped the Morse code requirement but could not make heads or tails out of the "Q"s). I already have the ships licence and just need a restricted radio operator permit
I'm really more interested in the communities available on either. Ham is a world wide group of diverse nature, some of whom are sailors, but they all get on the radio and talk a lot so that is kinda appealing
OTOH
the marine nets are all sailors and would have similar interests and concerns. Are there lots of restrictions on length of communication and such? I suppose I could read the FCC reg but the eyes are getting old and there are better things to read.

 

[windward54]

Not a lot of restrictions on marine SSB, and in some areas, SSB is more lax. For instance, using ham to conduct business, even by e-mail is against regulations. On SSB, there are no restrictions on conducting business as it is commercial radio.

However, in my short time on the air I have seen one thing; there are a lot more hams out there and a lot more activity on the ham bands. My contacts on marine SSB are few.

I have looked into what nets are out there, and again, away from the U.S., it seems to be split down the middle. Here is a good site that has a list of the nets:

http://www.docksideradio.com/Cruising Nets.htm

 

[Franklin]

The main restriction on SSB is to keep the conversation short because there are fewer feq.

 

[windward54]

Guess it depends on how you look at it. They have lots of channels but they might not be usable as the selected frequency could skip right over your intended target. Here is the website for the SSB frequency, broken down by megahertz band:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/high_frequency/default.htm

 

[Chuckbear]

I understand all the licensing stuff and now that the Morse code requirement has been dropped can get my ham license in short order. (I was up to 5 WPM when they dropped the Morse code requirement but could not make heads or tails out of the "Q"s). I already have the ships licence and just need a restricted radio operator permit
I'm really more interested in the communities available on either. Ham is a world wide group of diverse nature, some of whom are sailors, but they all get on the radio and talk a lot so that is kinda appealing
OTOH
the marine nets are all sailors and would have similar interests and concerns. Are there lots of restrictions on length of communication and such? I suppose I could read the FCC reg but the eyes are getting old and there are better things to read.

Bill, There are absolutely no restrictions on length of conversation on Ham or SSB. Get on a Ham frequency that the guys are discussing antennas and it goes on for hours. We spend a lot of time on the HF when cruising on both SSB and Ham frequencies on both controlled nets, where they will impose limitations, and in general chit chat with friends, getting weather voice info and downloading weather fax, etc. The SSB nets are invaluable sources of information so don't count that aspect out.

 

[Chuckbear]

I'm torn between the nice features of the marine band radios with one button distress and email and the access to greater number of frequencies.

I'm still doing my homework on which community would be best for a circumnavigation. I'm interested in safety, weather, email and tying in with the community in the area (area being folks on similar cruising tracks and within 500 miles)

Any body have an experience. I've got enough theories thanks.

Bill

We would highly recommend you have a radio capable of both such as the Icom 802 and 710, which is a bit cheaper. You will most certainly use both if you are cruising the East coast of the US, Bahamas and Caribbean. There are actually more SSB nets for mariners than Ham nets but both have there place and having access to both increases your available information on ports, weather and navigational information.

 

[Franklin]

Bill, There are absolutely no restrictions on length of conversation on Ham or SSB. ...

According to this resource and others, that's not true.


"Marine Single Sideband Radio (SSB) and parts of Amateur Radio (HAM) are technically very similar.

Both require licenses from the FCC but the licensing requirements are very different, a HAM license requires passing technical proficiency tests, SSB does not. Since HAM's have more technical knowledge, their radios are more versatile and flexible.

SSB uses frequency bands in the HF (High Frequency) part of the radio spectrum. There are also HAM bands in the HF range, but the bands are separate. There are many more HAM bands outside that range.

SSB (Single Sideband) is actually a type of radio transmission, like AM (Amplitude Modulation) and FM (Frequency Modulation). Hams use SSB too but also may use dozens of other transmission types (like AM, FM, Teletype, Morse Code, Television and FAX).

HAM communications are strictly for entertainment, experimentation, emergency assistance and casual communication, conducting business on the HAM bands is prohibited. With SSB, you can request a phone patch with a High Seas Operator, but it is a chargeable service. Ham's can also provide phone patches but not for payment. Ham's can discuss any noncommercial topic for as long as they like. With SSB, lengthy chit chat is discouraged since there are only a limited number frequencies. Limited business communication may take place on certain SSB freqencies.

SSB was developed for long range communications for offshore cruisers. If the conditions are right, SSB communications can occur between stations around the world. Ham communication also has worldwide communication potential. Many serious cruisers use BOTH SSB and HAM.

SSB radios are generally more foolproof, more rugged, and more expensive than HAM radios. Some HAM radios won't hold up to Marine use.

The exact same discussion above also applies to another maritime radio service, VHF Marine (Very High Frequency). This is a service for high quality, low power, short distance (line of sight) communication. The parallels to the HAM world are exactly the same.

Hope this clears it up for you, Susan."

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Ham-Radio-2161/ham-vs-ssb.htm

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I would agree with everything in your post Franklin except this statement:
"SSB radios are generally more foolproof, more rugged, and more expensive than HAM radios. Some HAM radios won't hold up to Marine use."

There are probably no more rugged transceivers ever built than some Harris and Collins types, many of which were designed specifically for hams and used extensively throughout the world for decades.
I think the notion that all marine radios are more rugged is, in large part, marketing.

 

[Chuckbear]

"With SSB, lengthy chit chat is discouraged since there are only a limited number frequencies. Limited business communication may take place on certain SSB freqencies."

This is simply the writers opinion and I will say again. there are NO REGULATIONS regarding the length of SSB transmissions. Notice his choice of the word "discouraged" without reference as to who discourages this. I don't personally know who Chris Bushman is but he is certainly not at least an official at the FCC. The article you quote was written in 2005 although that does not matter. In addition, once outside the United States an operator of a SSB radio is not required to follow FCC regulations.

 

[mutualfun]

Interesting, If lost the back stay and the primary antenna. I would pull out the rope antenna , lay it on the deck and make what calls I could.

Randy - interesting concept -= a rope antenna.
I am always dubious when someone claims gain over another antenna, especially without citing any reference. The other question I might ask is why use ladder line for the counterpoise as there is no "skin effect" associated with it any more than would occur with two separate wires in proximity.
His spec section on that web site is a little short on specs and nothing about his gain claim.
I will try getting in contact with him to discuss the above and report what I learn if any one is interested.
Parenthetically, I wonder how it could it be used as a backup antenna if one loses the backstay and presumably the mast with it.