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Spinnaker Tack

Jan 8, 2015
351
MacGregor 26S, Goman Express 30 Kerr Reservoir
I got out in the mild conditions yesterday on my new to me boat and tried singlehandling the asymmetrical spinnaker.
I am having difficulties figuring out how to rig the tack line.
My previous boat was a fractional rig so I installed the spinnaker hounds two feet above the forestay then I installed a retractable bowsprit. It was a smaller boat so I could gybe it outside the forestay quite easily.
On this boat the previous owner had the symmetrical recut at a sail loft to be used as an asymmetrical but he can't remember how he had the tack rigged. Bless his heart, he used to race the boat over a decade ago but he hadn't sailed the boat for sevearal years prior to me purchasing it. It was painful for me to watch him try as hard as he could to remember the nuances of the boat as I was on the test sail with him as his memory is fading, so I didn't press too hard. He did have the parrel beads in the sail bag, but when I tried it, the tack would just wrap around the furled headsail every other gybe.

As you could see towards the end of the video, I couldn't adjust the tack line the way it was rigged because it would hang up on the navigation light.

Here is a close up without the beads
Express 30 Spinnaker.jpg

Is there some way to rig this for temporary use prior to getting a bowsprit installed?
 

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,476
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
I’ll never understand why boats don’t come equipped for spinnaker tack points. The H260 owner’s manual gives suggestions on where to put the tack line but doesn’t say how to do it. I rigged up a system that works but I’m pretty sure I’d catch some grief for it. Good luck! (Can you tell I don’t have any answers for you?)
 
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Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Nice video, long live the Allman Brothers! You could make that tack work if you had a stout bow roller and get the second bird - a real ground tackle system. Simply clip a block onto the bow roller forward of the furler and run the tack line through to a bow cleat.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,320
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
I thought the rigging for an asymmetric was two sheets twice the boat length. The lazy sheet runs around the bow, in front of everything. So you gybe the sail by letting the working sheet loose to fly the sail forward of the boat, steering through the wind, and hauling in the (previously) lazy sheet on the new tack.

I don’t think an asymmetric is designed to tack through the wind reliably as shown in the video.

We don’t race Lady Lillie. Nor have we rigged our asymmetric with two very long sheets. On the very rare occasions when we want to tack (or gybe) the sail, we drop the sock, steer through the wind, carry the sheet and the sock to the other side, then hoist the sock on the new tack/gybe.
 
Jan 8, 2015
351
MacGregor 26S, Goman Express 30 Kerr Reservoir
Gunni, I really like your idea of a double duty bow roller. Stout in my mind means heavy duty. I frequently over build everything I fabricate here on the farm, however, I realize on a boat weight consideration has to be paramount. Instead, maybe I ought to search for one that has been engineered with the strength/weight ratio already calculated.

David, are you saying I am re-experiencing what others already have concluded best not to be done? That would be just like me trying to design square wheels to make a bicyle go faster. I do have a sock but using it every time I gybe single handed on a small lake is what I am trying to avoid.
 
Oct 19, 2017
6,438
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
I thought the rigging for an asymmetric was two sheets twice the boat length. The lazy sheet runs around the bow, in front of everything. So you gybe the sail by letting the working sheet loose to fly the sail forward of the boat, steering through the wind, and hauling in the (previously) lazy sheet on the new tack.
Never having worked with a spinnaker, this sounded like a lot of sense to me. I went and looked and found this video. They make it look pretty easy.
Can't wait to see your next video when you've settled on what works best.
- Will (Dragonfly)
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,476
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Somehow I got the impression y’all were calling his technique an outside jibe. Cowpokee is doing an inside jibe since the clew passes between the sail and the forestay. I see no reason at all to snuff the sail with either an inside or outside jibe. Looks like Cowpokee did a fine jibe job without snuffing it.
 
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Nov 8, 2007
1,320
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Wow, Will, good find.

I was taught both techniques by our sailmaker, Greg Koski, of Euclid, OH.

Cowpokee, I think gybing with two long sheets would solve your issue on your small lake, and could be done single handed.
 

DArcy

.
Feb 11, 2017
809
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
I see why you are not happy with that set up. It looks like the tack line would fowl on the running lights pretty easy, not to mention the load on the pulpit when the wind picks up. I would suggest using parrel beads around the forestay but run the sheets around the outside for an outside jibe. That will keep the spinnaker from fowling on the forestay. You did a very nice inside jibe in the video but as the wind picks up it can be tricky (especially without a sprit) to jibe inside. I've tried both ways and I'm coming to the conclusion that outside is easier, especially if you don't have a big slot (long sprit) between the forestay and the tack point.
 

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,476
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Cowpokee, I think gybing with two long sheets would solve your issue on your small lake, and could be done single handed.
Which is exactly how he’s doing it. We need to help him with his tack point.
 
Jan 8, 2015
351
MacGregor 26S, Goman Express 30 Kerr Reservoir
Which is exactly how he’s doing it. We need to help him with his tack point.
Yes, thank you Kermit for getting back to my original problem. I am begining to believe the PO was misremembering using this sail as an asymmetrical. I just don't see anyplace on the deck where he could have tied the tack down so I was hoping somebody else could shed some light on other possibilities of how he did it.
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,865
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
If you’re going to build a sprit, focus on that. If there’s danger that the tack line will remove hardware, that’s probably not a good approach.
 
Oct 19, 2017
6,438
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
I just don't see anyplace on the deck where he could have tied the tack down
So, where was the tack tied for the video?
I know I'm very ignorant about spinnakers but I can't see the need for a bow sprit. I mean, it went well in your video, the sail looked good, the jibe went well, the video I posted made everything look, I thought, even easier doing an outside jibe. Why the need for more distance from the bow? Are you trying to get the foot below the pulpit? If so, what's the advantage to that?
- Will (Dragonfly)
 

SG

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,670
J/Boat J/160 Annapolis
How were you using the "Bead Roller" lead?

That's a very "old" system which I haven't seen since asymmetric spinnakers because something more than "cruising spinnakers" in the days of the Hood Gennaker.

The roller beads were looped around the fore stay (just above the roller furling line, The tack of the spinnaker engaged was clipped to the loop (which could ride up and down), then the "chute down" line was attached to loop. It really wasn't intended to allow the tack of the chute two things: i) much vertical range (a foot or two); and ii) the tack was essentially locked to within a foot or so of the fore stay.

The advantage is that you won't get the chute away for the boat at the tack -- that's also the disadvantage. Also, I think it's easier to de-pressure a chute by easing the tack after you can pull the sock down BEHIND the main. Once the sock is down, things get "tame" ;^))). [We have a 2,000 SF asymmetric chute which can be very tough for one person if you don't get the pressure off.]

I think that the suggestion of having a fitting froward of the fore stay that you can attach a block too is the best solution.

By the way, before my J/Boat with both our Pearson and Sabre sailboats, I found that the gybe around the "outside" worked alright in medium winds. In heavier winds, while it might work fine, it flogged the chute a bunch. If you're running out of "water" or need to gybe, In any event, I don't like that strategy in light or very light winds. The chute can't float positively out, and you need it to essentially "flag" out in front of the boat. If you have featherweight, high tech lines, they aren't an issue; however, if you have the more hand friendly "normal" lines, I found that the lines screwed things up in light winds -- especially after they get wet, the boat starts to "run-over" them, and the clew starts to get pulled down. Then FUBAR experiences can to develop. :^)))
 
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Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
The parrel beads are your roller bearings for the sail tack (a separate tack line tensions the tack up or down). Closer to the wind you want the tack down and tight so that the sail behaves more like a genakker. When you get ready to gybe the sail you will loosen your tack line and let the sail belly out and rise up the furled foresail. That opens up a slot and allows the sail to blow through.
 
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Jan 8, 2015
351
MacGregor 26S, Goman Express 30 Kerr Reservoir
How were you using the "Bead Roller" lead?
I tied the beads to the spinnaker and the tack line also was connected close to the same place. As you can see in this pic, when I gybed the sail wrapped around the furler because I had the tack line coming off a block on the deck underneath the furler drum.


Another related question, if the beads depressed into the headsail UV cover instead of rolling up and down, could this mean that I am not rolling my furled headsail up tight enough?

The PO also had a ATN tacker sleeve that I though about trying to see if it would slide better than the beads but I still have to figure out where to lead the tack line from.

Will, in the video I had the tack line running under a horizontal bar on the bow pulpit. Unfortunately this is right where the nav light is so I found out as soon as I gybed the first time that wasn't a good idea.

Now that I think about it, there is a 1.5" diameter ring fastened to that bar, could the PO have attached a block to that ring for the tack line? I would have thought that would be too much of a load pulling up on the bow pulpit so I dismissed that idea from the git go.
 

Attachments

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SG

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,670
J/Boat J/160 Annapolis
I tied the beads to the spinnaker and the tack line also was connected close to the same place. As you can see in this pic, when I gybed the sail wrapped around the furler because I had the tack line coming off a block on the deck underneath the furler drum.


Another related question, if the beads depressed into the headsail UV cover instead of rolling up and down, could this mean that I am not rolling my furled headsail up tight enough?

The roller balls (beads) on the cable go AROUND the fore stay -- not straight up from the deck. They are like a hoop around the fore stay. Most of the force is supposed to downward with a less on the stay. The vertical adjustment is intended to be limited unless you have a lead forward to the area in front of the roller furling drum, and then run the line through a loop on the hoop of beads that are forming a loose "circle" around the fore stay.

This was a cruising chute notion -- not for racing, not usually tack inside (either the chute went outside, or it was "socked" and "flopped over", then unfurled.


Now that I think about it, there is a 1.5" diameter ring fastened to that bar, could the PO have attached a block to that ring for the tack line? I would have thought that would be too much of a load pulling up on the bow pulpit so I dismissed that idea from the git go.[/QUOTE]

There you go. I think, that's where I'd attach a snatch block and lead the tack line (chute down line (as long as it doesn't really interfere with the roller furler drum -- that's why a properly sized snatch block.) Then you can use the roller ball-beads and cable as something for massaging your back ;^))


...
 
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Jan 8, 2015
351
MacGregor 26S, Goman Express 30 Kerr Reservoir
Sorry guys. I attached the wrong pic in post #16.
IMG_20171202_162236304.jpg
This one shows the tack wrapped around the furled headsail when I had the beads on.
 

SG

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,670
J/Boat J/160 Annapolis
What is the blue line about?

The roller ball beads are supposed to create a hoop that is about 18" in diameter from my recollection. that was on a friend's O'Day 30.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,111
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
You need a small block on the stemhead for the tackline to keep it at the base of the forestay. I sail my asym all the time without attaching it to the forestay or using a sprit.... It must be fixed to one of the holes on the stemhead fitting.... close to the wire.