Awhile back I bought a used symmetrical spinny on Ebay that had a small line that ran head to foot right down the middle of the sail thru a series of loops sewn into the sail. I learned that this served as a quick way to depower the spin. By pulling on the line you would bifurcate the sail thus quickly taking the power out of it. Unfortunately, I never got to try it as the sail got ruined one fine windy day. I am curious if anyone else out there has ever used this device and how well does it work. As the owner of a fairly tender boat in a windy place this seems like it might be a good thing to have.
Spinnaker Emergency Brake Line
- Thread starter markwbird
- Start date
Interesting idea. I’ve never seen a setup like that. I wonder how effectively it depowers the sail vs just splitting it into two smaller sails, and how it compares to quickly dumping the sheet. I know at least with an asymmetrical dumping the sheet is pretty quickly effective. Makes lots of noise and bother, but that’s probably an inevitable side effect of any de-powering approach.
I dimly remember releasing the guy to instantly depower a symmetrical spin. Or was it just because the skipper liked to yell "Blow the Guy!" quite loudly during the broach?
Are you sure it's not a spinnaker dousing/retrieval line? One of the spinnakers on our J/36 had a "bellybutton". You attached a light line to it and the crew pulled it in like crazy when the halyard, sheet and guy were let go at the leeward mark. Brought the whole sail down in seconds, right into the main or forward. hatch. Your line might have been supposed to work the same way. Dinghies with launching tubes have similar setups for their spinnakers.
It seems an unusual way to depower a sail because you would be pulling against the force of the wind. The fastest way to depower a spinnaker is to let go of the sheet, unless you are dousing then blow the guy.
My Bandit 15 had a spinnaker douse line. It attached to the center of the spinnaker and ran through a spinnaker tube in the foredeck and out of the tube in the cockpit. You could douse the spinnaker by hauling on it as you control release the halyard. It worked great. And the spinnaker could be set by hauling it out of the tube with the halyard. A very nice system.
Mark it has been many years since I have seen a douser (that is what the skipper called it) for a spinnaker. It was similar to the douser lines on the old square rigged sails.
You are correct about the application. On the boat I observed it's use, the sheets were loosened and the douser was hauled in pulling the center of the spinnaker down and in towards the forward bow. It let the air escape from the sides of the spinnaker, collapsing it while the halyard was released dropping the spinnaker onto the deck where it was gathered and stuffed into the forward hatch.
A pretty quick collapse put a lot of sail on the boat. Took 2 crew to manage the sail on deck while the pit crew member pulled frantically to get all the sail down into the boat.
This was a big boat with a very large spinnaker. I would suspect that was the only way it could be quickly dropped and not see it go down under the bow of the boat.
You are correct about the application. On the boat I observed it's use, the sheets were loosened and the douser was hauled in pulling the center of the spinnaker down and in towards the forward bow. It let the air escape from the sides of the spinnaker, collapsing it while the halyard was released dropping the spinnaker onto the deck where it was gathered and stuffed into the forward hatch.
A pretty quick collapse put a lot of sail on the boat. Took 2 crew to manage the sail on deck while the pit crew member pulled frantically to get all the sail down into the boat.
This was a big boat with a very large spinnaker. I would suspect that was the only way it could be quickly dropped and not see it go down under the bow of the boat.
The query got me to wonder when did the use of a spinnaker sock come about? I do not remember their use back in the late 60's when I was learning and racing boats in San Diego Bay.
A couple of searches turned up several claims.
1. The VF Shaw Company out of Maryland made this claim.
Wikipedia has this quote. No reference is made to a shoot or douser.
2. Kaycee Longmore reports in Boat Plans (The History of the Spinnaker Sleeve - Sail Technology - Boat Plans)
3. On the website the Global Solo Challenge, Marco Nannini interviewed Etienne Giroire, "in all respects the father of the modern spinnaker sleeve which he has been producing since 1985." Spinnaker sleeve, all you need to know with Etienne Giroire
A couple of searches turned up several claims.
1. The VF Shaw Company out of Maryland made this claim.
Spinnaker Furling With Ease
In 1979 the V.F. Shaw Co. invented, perfected and marketed the first sleeve furling device in this country. Since then we have acquired many years of experience in using and improving the Chutescoop, which we try to pass onto you, our customers. From our years of experience we offer the following advice to help you to sort facts from fiction.
Wikipedia has this quote. No reference is made to a shoot or douser.
Sphinx first set her spinnaker in the Solent in 1865, and the first recorded use of the word was in 1866 in the August edition of Yachting Calendar and Review (p. 84)
2. Kaycee Longmore reports in Boat Plans (The History of the Spinnaker Sleeve - Sail Technology - Boat Plans)
The History of the Spinnaker Sleeve
Last Updated on Wed, 16 Dec 2020 | Sail Technology
The first spinnaker retaining device was invented in Germany about 35 years ago. It was called the Blue Max and was a very simple cloth tube with a rigid opening at one end and a closed-loop line running along the inside that was used to control the up and down of the tube. Nobody paid much attention to it back then since flying spinnakers was not very popular at the time.
3. On the website the Global Solo Challenge, Marco Nannini interviewed Etienne Giroire, "in all respects the father of the modern spinnaker sleeve which he has been producing since 1985." Spinnaker sleeve, all you need to know with Etienne Giroire
In the mid 80s Etienne Giroire setup ATN and started producing a system that truly worked. Legendary sailors like Eric Tabarly had been trying various systems with their sailmakers but none was working reliably. When sailing single-handed, a reliable way to hande spinnakers is essential in the success of a racing campaign.
Eric Tabarly at a boat show saw a Swede who had this sail system for the spinnaker. He wanted to gain market share and had patented it. But that product didn’t go anywhere really and didn’t get noticed. It is only in 1976 when Eric Tabarly wanted to do the OSTAR in Penduick VI that he went to see his sailmaker. He told Victor Tonner he wanted to do the race but needed something to handle the spinnaker.
Eric Tabarly had been thinking about it quite a bit, it was the result of very careful design. Because he then won the race and his name was Eric Tabarly the rest of the sailmakers noticed in earnest the spinnaker sleeve concept. As you can imagine every sailmaker around France started to make their own spinnaker sleeves!
SO I guess you can take your pick about who developed the first Spinnaker Sleeve, but all put the development during the late 70's early 80's.
Just wondering what happend to the sail on the fine windy day?
I am only asking as it would seem to me that a spinnaker given its very light material would suffer structurally and having the proper reinforcement in the middle of the sail would also unduly effect sail shape/performance, especially in very light air (when a spinnaker is most beneficial). The added weight of the reinforcing in the middle would definitely effect the shape of the sail I would think......
I have a sock, and it’s an ok way to douse a cruising sail, but it’s too much friction for a fast racing douse like you can get with a dousing line. Even with the sail collapsed it takes a relatively long time to collapse the chute, slide the sock down, then drop the whole thing to the deck.
On the various race boats I crewed for, it was called a "take down line", "dousing line" or "string". You can watch vids of old AC 12 meters and others that use poles. They all were equipped with them... Besides getting quick control of the large sail for the take dowthe sewer man a head start for repacking the sail. It also helps because the crew is pulling the center of the sail directly to the deck which can be passed down to the sewer for faster re packing.
The take down line is also incorporated in the tube launch systems so popular on performance beach cats, racing skiffs and dinghies which allow shorthanded crew handling of the big sail. A typical tube system will have a continuous halyard/dousing line... halyard end is attached to the sail's head, the takedown end to a center patch on the belly of the sail. The sail enters the tube middle first... the corners are at the mouth of the tube. When the sail goes up the halyard is retrieved as the sail goes up, extending the takedown string. Dousing is so easy, just release the halyard and pull the middle of the sail back into the tube... ready to go for next set.
Final comment, I have seen a number of home built variations on the system using mesh sail storage bags and the resin funnels often seen on the infamous dousing sock. This system, including a retrievable or folding sprit of some type, is pretty cool. I think it's a good way for short handed or single handed sailors to manage a spinnaker safely.
The take down line is also incorporated in the tube launch systems so popular on performance beach cats, racing skiffs and dinghies which allow shorthanded crew handling of the big sail. A typical tube system will have a continuous halyard/dousing line... halyard end is attached to the sail's head, the takedown end to a center patch on the belly of the sail. The sail enters the tube middle first... the corners are at the mouth of the tube. When the sail goes up the halyard is retrieved as the sail goes up, extending the takedown string. Dousing is so easy, just release the halyard and pull the middle of the sail back into the tube... ready to go for next set.
Final comment, I have seen a number of home built variations on the system using mesh sail storage bags and the resin funnels often seen on the infamous dousing sock. This system, including a retrievable or folding sprit of some type, is pretty cool. I think it's a good way for short handed or single handed sailors to manage a spinnaker safely.
I was hoping no one would ask that. It was blowing 20 and choppy as we were close hauled and headed towards the windward mark. The leeward spin sheet was dragging in the water and dragged the spin out of the bag and overboard. We did not even notice at first. By the time we realized it it had gotten wrapped around the keel. It took three people to drag it back into the boat and it was shredded. The good news is that it made for great sails for a couple of antique pond yachts that I have.
Never on a spinnaker!
In a broach it is best to let the spinnaker fly unrestrained. If the spin sheet or guy has a stopper knot as soon as the boat begins to right itself the sail will fly and back over you go. When things get out of control with a big sail, letting the sheet and guy go is OK. To retrieve the flying sail just head to wind and the sail will come back to the boat, grab a line and get that sucker down.
Yep. If the guy had been released the sail would have flown off to leeward and then from the masthead. In this case, it could have been retrieved with sheet and releasing the halyard. Might have gone shrimping, but it would have been a lot safer and wouldn't have shown up on a YouTube video.
@dlochner I know this. I was questioning if that happened to @markwbird when he lost his spinnaker.
I've untied lots of spinnaker stopper knots on many a highly trained crew in my coaching days. Now you just hope the sheet doesn't hockle at the turn block when you want it to run out.
I always thought the best and fastest way to de-power a spinnaker is to completely release the guy. Then the spin would fly like a flag, the boat would stand up and you can recover. Some, maybe on this forum, have said this is a dangerous practice. I would like to hear why? (I'm not referencing the video)