Spinlock Powercleat

[shanker]

My first post on the new web page!

I installed some spinlock power cleats this summer and wanted to update you on how they worked out. The location is really key for these and even though I wanted them closer to the companionway edge, I felt that without any reinforcement in the cabin top, that I should keep them where I know they have good backing or support. I removed the existing cam cleat and the spinlocks fit right into the existing holes. I had options with the spinlocks and decided to go with the swivel style and I'm glad I did. The biggest challege with this placement that I choose is getting them on the proper angle for ease of use. I saw pics from others that used spacer blocks to raise them up as well as wedges to get the right angle. So I decided to experiment with the angle of my home made wedges. I used some leftover UHMW to machine the wedges. I fitted the cleats to them and installed them on the cabin top.
They take a little getting use to but I really like how they work. I was supposed to replace my jib sheets this year but WM messed my order up so I don't have the new sheets running through them. One of the negatives I read was that these cleats would jam up and should not be used with sheets that the cleats are sized for. So I can't speak to that issue until I get my new sheets next year. For me, I love single handling and these really work well. I do have to adjust the angles of my wedges as currently they are pointing too high and at times I really have to reach up high to get them to release. Those adjustments will have to wait for next near's sailing season as the Blue Honu is in hibernation mode.

I'll post some more specifics and details when I get home. If anyone has any input or experiences to share please do.

The pics show the port and sbd cleats from two sides and the last two pics show the port cleat in the open and closed positions.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

What kind of bedding compound do you have under the UHMW? Because I can tell you there's no adhesion or protection against water intrusion under it.

 

[Fred]

Do the spin locks work when using the winches?

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Diana made a good point for caulking. Shanker, let us know if you did that. When the swivel cam cleats came out, the first one installed was not elevated forward toward the bow; thus, it made it very difficult when pulling down that cam cleat to lock in or hold the line. The reason it is too far back from the edge. I did what you did and made pieces out of white delrin or starboard which like you took care of that problem. Later Spinlock per discussion with them started to make a wedge kit. I am not sure if a wedge kit is made for this paticurlar cam cleat but wanted to have anyone thinking of that to look into a wedge kit if available.
Also for those who do not know, there is a large aluminum plate underneath the flat surface encapsulated in the fiberglass that one can drill and tap for bolts. I suggest bolts vs. screws for better holding. Be sure to caulk and there DO NOT USE 5200. As for winches it works but then there is a placement issue and securing them. From practice, I found winches were not necessary for the jib sheets as I use to pull them over thru the cam cleats when changing direction and if I needed to shorten and there was pressure on the lines, I would turn momentarily quickly turn into the wind releasing that pressure on either the 26 or 260

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Dave Condon reminds us that 5200, while having many invaluable applications on the boat, is not for bedding down winches and small bits of hardware. You can use 4000, which breaks free much more easily. For winches I prefer rubber gaskets. Like cam cleats, line stoppers and windlasses, they are in shear load, not in tensile load. This calls for a hefty backing plate bonded (with 5200) to the underside of the deck and appropriate-diameter bolts (not all-thread) whose threadless shanks will lean on the deck's thickness and the thickness of the backing plate. While 5200 would hold very well in a shear load, it would make regularly removing the winch or stopper for maintenance impossible.

My point is that nothing known to man sticks to UHMW, which is its one notable characteristic. Make drawer slides and hatch slides out of it. At Cherubini we used it on our teak companionway hatches and tested it by standing a 200-lb Marine (Lee) on the hatch and having the girl from the office slide the hatch back and forth. I recommended it to someone who said the sliding head door on his H27 bound terribly and trapped his daughter inside, and I cautioned him that after installing UHMW under the door it might have a certain guillotine effect on a starboard tack!

The other thing you shouldn't use for this is Starboard, which has far fewer appropriate structural applications on a boat than most West Marine shoppers would like to believe. I've made really nice cutting boards and fish-cutting tables out of it. But nothing sticks to it and it's not very strong.

And don't even consider butyl tape for this, which has only what I call a 'masking-tape sticky' but no true holding power, which in shear (ripping sideways) is better only than it is in tensile (pulling up). It's good as a temporary gasket, same as silicone. That's all.

For this application I'd like to see you make the wedge out of G-10, red electrically-insulating fiberglass board, or even koosa, all of which are available at McMaster-Carr (online). Any of these can be easily shaped, bonded to the cabintop with 5200 or epoxy, painted very nicely and relied-upon for strength. Best of all the thickness of any of these, if properly bedded, will provide you with a 'bolster' against the shear load of the mounting bolts and then you won't need it so much under the piece of hardware itself.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Shanker;

I am not sure if there is an inspection port/plate inside on the ceiling just aft of the companionway. If so, then I would use that to access the underneath of the deck if possible when installing a backing plate for a winch. Some folks think you can put a backing plate on the ceiling which is not advisable. The ceiling is held in places with marine putty and is not solid with the deck. Thus the ceilng will contract upward when tightening down with bolts which is why you have to access the underside of the deck. There is another way. If you drill thru the deck and into the inside, you can then drill a larger hole in the ceiling and using a small metal pipe just big enough for the bolt to fit thru and washer up against the underside of the deck with washer against the deck and then using washer and bolt inside, tighten down.

As for Diana of Burlington, his father was a naval architect for Hunter Marine many years ago (Cheribini designs) and he knows boats. His advice comes form knowledge and experience and I respect this gentleman's advice.

 

[shanker]

Fred.
I use the spinlocks in lieu of the winches. No need for them. Just flip your wrist to release the cleat and flip to lock it. They really work well for the 260 with its small jib. Not sure if this is the right equipment for other boats.
Diana/Dave
Good points about 5200. I have yet to use that product on my boat. As far as how I have it attached/sealed to the deck; The spinlock is bolted directly into the top of the riser block. I drilled and tapped the riser and it is not a through hole, so no water migration issue from there. The riser is bolted down using the existing bolt holes in the deck from the original cam cleats. Because they are threaded into the factory aluminum plate (embedded into the fiberglass), it is possible to get some good purchase on those two bolts resulting in sufficient holding power. I actually re-used the same two bolts from the cam cleat. As far as sealing it to the deck to avoid water migration, on the bottom of the riser I machined a groove with a 3/16" bull nose end mill around the outside of the block about 1/4" from the edge and about 3/32" deep. I over filled this groove with marine silicone and then secured the riser to the deck with the bolts. The groove holds the silicone and creates a seal point. This is a prototype and once I get the angle and the location where I want it, I was going to use an o-ring in that groove. Lots of success with that setup in various oil and gas assemblies. I had this setup installed all sailing season and had no water issues.
Hope that makes sense. Let me know if you forsee any issues with this set up, I appreciate your experience and knowledge.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Thanks for the follow up and you are right on not using winches with that set up. Never cared for them on that boat.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Shanker, that's a pretty good idea with making a gasket/o-ring out of the silicone with the routed groove. I was watching Rick Moore's video series (Ambient Real Life) and in one he was making a dummy plate to cover up old instruments' holes and as soon as he went to the Starboard I groaned. (You can see my comments on the YouTube page!) Then in the video he turns it over and shows how he routed a groove in it, just like you described, and I breathed a sigh of relief. In both your applications, a lot is depending on the compression of that silicone bead (tightening the screws) but, provided it's adequate, the gasket should be good enough. I would amend my statement about rubber gaskets under winches to admit a silicone gasket under them as well; but, again, that depends on a very hefty deck thickness to give those screws' shoulders something to lean on. That buried aluminium plate had better not be floating loosely inside the 'glass; the thickness of the deck alone isn't enough to hold a halyard's shear load.

This is neither the first nor last time I say it; but don't be afraid of 5200. The stuff was invented expressly for this sort of job. It is excellent in tensile and in shear loads and, when used properly, is not the great mess many amateurs complain it is. One trick I have found is to wet your fingertip in clear water and to wipe the exposed bead of 5200, smoothing it down and helping it to skin over. No-- it will not come off in your finger if your finger is wet (dip fingertip in water about every 20 seconds). I promise you, I have eaten sub sandwiches right after doing this and there's no 52 on my finger. Wetting it down also helps with peeling up the masking tape, which should be done immediately after wetting it down in water, which should be done immediately after you've run the bead of 5200 or bolted down the two parts. This is a production trick which makes it easy and fast to use 5200 with little mess and little concern for its remaining tacky and picking up dust, dirt, lint, body parts, and loose tools (which is what most people complain about with it).

I wouldn't want anyone to whole condemn a product or a process, especially when it's the right one for the job. When I sermonize against butyl tape and silicone, it's because I do understand them, I know what they're good for and what they're not good for, and I know how to use them properly and know when to avoid them. I've been using 5200 since the early 1970s. Anyone's older Hunter is mostly fastened together with it (if your toerail seam still holds out water, like mine does, this is why). I learned to avoid egoism by learning to embrace the best way, then make it my way. Information isn't to be owned; it's to be shared.