Solent or Slutter added to a new fractional Selden in-mast furler rig

[runninglts]

Hello all -- I am looking for thoughts on my plan to add a solent/slutter stay to my newer fractional furling mast on my Jeanneau SO 45. I understand for a mast head sloop if you keep stay attachment point just below the existing forestay there would be wouldn't be a need for running backstays or any extra structural support.

The question is can I do the same with a fractional rig --in particular a standard Selden mast since I understand they are "coastal" grade and considered "bendy". In my case, fractional is nearly a mast head since it was shortened ~5% from original to accommodate the ICW and the forestay attach point now very close to the top.

The other question I have is from what I read typically you would add a stainless steel collar with a bolt running through middle of mast as the attach point. But since there is a furled sail in the mast not sure how that could be accomplished.

If you have gone down this road on your boat or others, love to hear how it went --or if it was a non-starter I would like to hear that too. Thanks

 

[shemandr]

Well I hope "Chop and drop" doesn't apply!
The Fractional masts have different characteristics. The fractional masts have lighter construction - thinner extrusions and cross sections.
Masthead masts are massive in comparison.
The former are made to bend to wind loads and the ladder are made to stand against them.
I don't think chopping a fractional mast to to be a masthead rig works. For at least this reason, a fractional rig mast bends as part of its design which depowers the main and tensions the forestay. With a bastardized fractional rig that would be disabled.
I'm trying to imagine how the JSO, mast would react and I'm not sure I can. It looks like it has mildly swept back spreaders. Could they add enough stiffness to resist the bending the likely 150% to follow. "Cause if you sail a masthead you want that 150. IDK!

 

[dlochner]

Double spreader masthead masts can get pretty bendy, that's why the spreaders are swept back and there are double spreaders. The J35 and my boat have similar Hall Spars, having watched them picked up by a crane I have seen how much they bend.

Some of the force from a second headstay can be countered with running back stays. The J35 mast was designed to use runners.

The biggest structural issue with adding a second forestay is the tack fitting. Simply adding a backing plate to the fitting won't work, it has to be tied to the hull structure in someway. In a retrofit this can be difficult as it intrudes on useable space.

Practically, the second forestay interferes with tacking a Genoa as the gap between the forestays is small. This can be mitigated by making the inner stay removable and stowing along the cap shrouds or by rolling the Genoa up before tacking.

 

[Ted]

Some masthead rigged boat can have very bendy masts. My triple spreader mast can bend 8". You can use a "T" ball fitting at the upper end of your slutter rig. Once it's installed it is nearly flush with the interior surface of the mast. These shouldn't interfere with your mainsail reefing system. If your boat has an anchor locker at the bow, it may have a bulkhead that is robust enough to attach a tack fitting to it. You'll most likely want to make the slutter stay out of Dyneema so that it is easier than stainless steel wire to store out of the way when not in use.

 

[PaulK]

Attaching a Solent stay "just below the existing forestay" sounds like a recipe for problems. It will foul the Genoa when you go to tack it. The Solent stay may impede rolling up the Genoa as well. Solent stays are generally set up well clear of the forestay - perhaps six feet or more on a boat your size- because of this. Why the need for a Solent jib? If you are heading to Patagonia perhaps a smaller jib on the forestay, or one that can be used partially rolled would work better.

 

[dlochner]

The take home message here is, get a good professional rigger involved, someone who had done this kind of job before.

 

[runninglts]

Many thanks to all for the input. I am posting these questions so that I can ask the right questions when I discuss this idea with a local rigger. I found it much better to have a good understanding of a topic before getting "professionals" involved.

If you have a fractional rig with an in-mast furler and have added a stay to it, or have discussed what the options are with a rigger or the manufacturer of the mast, I would much appreciate hearing your thoughts.

(Note I have figured out the on-deck attachment point and where best to add the lead blocks/t-tracks --pretty straightforward on my boat)

 

[PaulK]

(Note I have figured out the on-deck attachment point and where best to add the lead blocks/t-tracks --pretty straightforward on my boat)

Hope you are planning to land it where the forward anchor locker bulkhead is, so it can be well attached to the bulkhead. Otherwise the on-deck attachment point will need a rod, strut, or stay continuing on and attaching to the stem to carry the load of the new inner stay. This would likely cut through the middle of the center double bunk in the forward cabin. Without a solid connection to the stem (with a strut or using the bulkhead) the new stay will pull up the deck, leading to all sorts of interesting (and likely expensive) developments in that area.

 

[runninglts]

Hope you are planning to land it where the forward anchor locker bulkhead is, so it can be well attached to the bulkhead. Otherwise the on-deck attachment point will need a rod, strut, or stay continuing on and attaching to the stem to carry the load of the new inner stay. This would likely cut through the middle of the center double bunk in the forward cabin. Without a solid connection to the stem (with a strut or using the bulkhead) the new stay will pull up the deck, leading to all sorts of interesting (and likely expensive) developments in that area.

Yep .. the forward bulkhead in front of windlass ... bolted stainless chainplate ... full length to the bottom ... might even glass in some g10 as backing plate with tabbing to hull

If it is a go on adding a stay to mast, the plan is for it to be stowable Dyneema with a 12:1 purchase block ... as discussed in -- Cutter stay on fractional rig?