Solar controller overcharging batteries

[colemj]

perhaps it's a negative to need to buy a separate ~$40 Bluetooth battery monitor to manage charge temperature compensation, whereas a ~$40 wired remote temperature probe add-on will do the same thing (e.g. Morningstar).

With regards to temperature and voltage monitoring, the Smart Battery Sense connects via Bluetooth and is $40. Thats about what you would spend on a Morningstar temperature sensor and voltage sense wires… maybe less.

It sounds like you were unlucky with Victron DOA and that is influencing your opinion. But if I may serve as a data point, I have 15+ Victron components acquired over 6 years and never a single issue (other than the Orions derating).

Just to be clear, the temp and voltage sense is included with Morningstar and other controllers that use them.

Yes, I was unlucky with Victron DOA, but still have a Multiplus because I think it is a good choice. I'm not the only one I know with DOA Victron products. My point was that this happens with everyone, even Victron, so simply stating "go with Victron" in response to someone's potentially DOA non-Victron controller doesn't get them out of that woods.

To each their own.... back in the 70s and 80s, small boat instruments were separate and independent. Surely there must be reason that everything has moved to nmea/canbus? Surely aircraft, auto and boat manufacturers must have a strong business case for relying on integrated networks and equipment vice one to one device to sensor wiring? Redundancy, less wiring, ease of maintenance, better information in more places, ease of maintenance and software updates.... ? If I'm flying a B52 dropping atomic bombs, there's a business case for analogue and independent systems, but for a boat? We're not talking about brand new untested technology.... As soon as one goes to lithium, having a canbus interface is truly the only safe and efficient way to control and monitor the battery status.... welcome to the future

You confuse the issue of instrument networks, where the components operate independently from each other and failure of one doesn't bring down the bunch (or that one can be removed with no effect), with interconnectivity where all the components of the system need to work for anything to work correctly.

You also seem to think I'm against networks and interconnectivity. I was only pointing out that some of the people supporting an interconnected charging system are the people who also say things like they would never interface their autopilot to their chartplotter, or that separate inverter and charger is the only way to go. As for us, our 5 solar controllers are networked with ethernet, connected to our router, and I have full control of them off the boat anywhere in the world. Our A/C's are similarly connected, and we have an extensive NMEA2000 network that is also bridged to wifi. I can control our stereo anywhere in the world, although I can't think of a reason to do so. Interfaced indoor and outdoor cameras are another example. But I do like my charging sources to not rely on any other parts of the system to operate correctly.

Canbus is definitely not necessary for a safe and efficient control and monitoring of LFP batteries. I'd say the vast majority of LFP installations are not using canbus. While one might debate canbus makes for more efficient monitoring, there is no leg to stand on to say it is necessary for safety.

Mark

 

[Johann]

Just to be clear, the temp and voltage sense is included with Morningstar and other controllers that use them.

I see the TriStar does, but I looked at the ProStar which doesn’t. Still they are about twice as expensive as similar spec‘d Victron SmartSolar MPPTs so I still say the advantage here is Victron with a $40 BT module for temp and voltage.

Yes, I was unlucky with Victron DOA, but still have a Multiplus because I think it is a good choice. I'm not the only one I know with DOA Victron products. My point was that this happens with everyone, even Victron, so simply stating "go with Victron" in response to someone's potentially DOA non-Victron controller doesn't get them out of that woods.

I agree there. I guess the lesson is buy a reputable brand from a dealer who will handle warranty issues without a fuss.

 

[FastOlson]

I guess the lesson is buy a reputable brand from a dealer who will handle warranty issues without a fuss.

And... this is where the "duck comes down!"

 

[SycloneDriver]

I only skimmed most of this thread because it drifted so much. Solar is a favorite topic of mine so I will go back and read it when I have more time. Forgive me if someone else mentioned the below advice.

Here is something that might help the OP. If the controller is dual voltage auto select 12 or 24 volt, the batteries need to be connected first and then the panels. If the panels are connected before the batteries the controller may auto select it's 24 volt settings. I've seen this in the installation manual on several solar charge controllers.

Hope this helps.
Troy

 

[Johann]

If the controller is dual voltage auto select 12 or 24 volt, the batteries need to be connected first and then the panels. If the panels are connected before the batteries the controller may auto select it's 24 volt settings.

Excellent point! Hopefully this is the issue.

 

[marcham]

Canbus is definitely not necessary for a safe and efficient control and monitoring of LFP batteries. I'd say the vast majority of LFP installations are not using canbus. While one might debate canbus makes for more efficient monitoring, there is no leg to stand on to say it is necessary for safety.

Mark

Except if your installer, electrician or manufacturer follows ABYC best practices, then networking batteries (and ideally the alternator) is implied if you follow ABYC's latest standards for lithium installation. Of course, ABYC is not regulatory .... but AFAIK, North American manufacturers adhere to it, as do most marine electricians....

 

[colemj]

Except if your installer, electrician or manufacturer follows ABYC best practices, then networking batteries (and ideally the alternator) is implied if you follow ABYC's latest standards for lithium installation. Of course, ABYC is not regulatory .... but AFAIK, North American manufacturers adhere to it, as do most marine electricians....

No, this is not true. And one cannot say ABYC "implies" anything. They either state it explicitly, or it is not part of a recommendation. No manufacturer or marine electrician adheres to "implications". Even attempting to divine implications not explicitly stated would lead to spiraling outside of ABYC's actual intentions.

And even if they did explicitly state "networking", canbus is only one of many types of networking that would be suitable. Canbus certainly isn't "safer" than other types of networks.

Mark

 

[Maine Sail]

Epever is not a cheap Chinese controller. They produce some of Outback Power's controllers (Outback rebrands them), and those are considered first tier. While maybe not the top of the best, they are leagues ahead of Renogy and the no-name controllers, and tend to be a good budget controller.

I would love to know why you think Outback re-brands EPever? I Don't see any indication of that? Please explain..,.

 

[colemj]

I would love to know why you think Outback re-brands EPever? I Don't see any indication of that? Please explain..,.

I didn't say they rebranded all of them, just some of them. The Flexmax Micro line is made by Epever for Outback. Here is a link mentioning that. 40A 12v/24v MPPT charge Controller - Tracer 4215BN - 150VOC PV - LIMITED STOCKS OF THE BULLETPROOF BN SERIES

While that might not seem like definitive proof, the two look identical.

Mark

 

[colemj]

Sorry for all the edits above. I was having trouble posting pics.

 

[Maine Sail]

I didn't say they rebranded all of them, just some of them. The Flexmax Micro line is made by Epever for Outback. Here is a link mentioning that. 40A 12v/24v MPPT charge Controller - Tracer 4215BN - 150VOC PV - LIMITED STOCKS OF THE BULLETPROOF BN SERIES

While that might not seem like definitive proof, the two look identical.

Mark

View attachment 232693 View attachment 232694

Yes those look similar but this is not uncommon as there are Chinese companies that make the heat sinks & housings for many. When I look on Panjiva I see no shipments from EPever to Outback and Outback does not seem to be using a cloaking service.....? I agree they are one of the best Chinese MPPT's but I have not found the EPever to be quite as fast at tracking which is critical on sailboats.......

 

[colemj]

Yes those look similar but this is not uncommon as there are Chinese companies that make the heat sinks & housings for many. When I look on Panjiva I see no shipments from EPever to Outback and Outback does not seem to be using a cloaking service.....? I agree they are one of the best Chinese MPPT's but I have not found the EPever to be quite as fast at tracking which is critical on sailboats.......

I don't know what Panjiva is, but is it possible someone else makes that model for both Epever and Outback? A Chinese contract facility that builds for OEM's?

It is more than just a similarity of heat sink and housing. The communication port, external load connection, lights, and reset are identical, so those must be reproduced in the electronics and control too. Seems unlikely Outback independently reproduced and manufactured an electronics board with those functions in those places. And wrote firmware for it.

Mark

 

[PAC3142]

Wow, lots of good information posted, thanks! I’ve been sailing since Tuesday and used that as an excuse to be mostly offline.
A quick update:
I got to the boat Tuesday, and the electrical panel voltmeter was pegged at 16V. I measured the voltage across the two 12V house batteries mounted in parallel and read 13.8V. I disconnected the solar panel and then measured 13.2V. So it looks like the panel voltmeter is reading high, and the voltages at the batteries are about right. Water level was slightly low in a few cells.
I just received the Epever MT50 remote display so I can track the controller behavior and will install it in the next few weeks.

 

[Maine Sail]

Based on the design of the hetsink it is very outback looking, design wise .Having imported from Taiwan and Mainland for business I think the more likely scenario is they got robbed by their contract manufacturer. They are known for selling proprietary info out the back door. Remember Aurinco Solar..They got put out of business from this.. They sell designs, out the back door to another manufacturer. Happens all the time. It is why it is so tough tho prosecute.. The contract manufacturer is not rebranding them, a third party is, and likely giving a kick-back to the guy that stole the designs...