Social distancing on a launch?

Jan 7, 2014
394
Beneteau 45F5 51551 Port Jefferson
My club is getting ready to open launch service to our moorings and we're grappling with the problem of social distancing on a 21' launch. Long Island, by the way, has an infection rate of over 2%, about as bad as NYC. Some of the powers that be believe that the passenger limit should be 2 regardless of whether or not they are from the same household. So, with my family of 5, the launch will need to make 3 trips to my boat. I think that is just plain stupid. I think that if all passengers are from the same household and wearing a face covering and and can stay 6 feet from the driver or unrelated passengers it should be OK. I am having trouble finding guidance from NY state. They do mention however that members from the same household may share a taxi or uber. Can you tell me what your club or launch service is doing about launch service.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Personally, I think it's just plain stupid to go out in public unnecessarily right now, but it's your family you are putting at risk, not mine.
Solve the problem of the launch by buying a dinghy of your own and pack whomever you please in it.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,039
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I agree that a limit of 2 even if of the same household is too strident. Does anyone think members of a household maintain social at home? But what I think doesn't matter. It's what the "Powers that be" think that will govern this. During the so called re-opening everyone is afraid of being sued - as they will be if contact tracing leads to them.
 

PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,222
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
Our club is running into the same issues. We are planning to take one or two people out to the boat, which can then come in to the fuel dock to pick up any additional crew. Since the launch driver on our launches is midships, along with the boarding passage, people are going to have to do a ballet to keep everyone at a safe distance all the time.
 
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Bob J.

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Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
There is no perfect way. Eventually I think everyone will have exposure to the virus. It's really up to their immune system as to what happens after.
Off topic but I think most people have already been exposed. Reason I say this, during the month of March three members of our household had a headache for three straight weeks. Tylenol or Ibuprofen provided little to no relief. We had no other symptoms. When this was brought up to others many, many people we know both here in NH but also Maine had the same skull cramp. Coincidence? Who knows.
 

Rick

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Oct 5, 2004
1,095
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
I dont hunker down during the flu season. I dont wear gloves or a cotton mask that does absolutely nothing! I had the flu about 30 years ago and have had one flu shot since. Hmmmm. However I dont have a cronic disease either. Im going boating this weekend. Emperor Newsom finally opened up San Diego Bay and the beaches. He closed back down Newport Beach though. Doesnt like the Republican Mayor.

Have a great day.
 
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Nov 13, 2013
723
Catalina 34 Tacoma
Off topic but I think most people have already been exposed. Reason I say this, during the month of March three members of our household had a headache for three straight weeks. Tylenol or Ibuprofen provided little to no relief. We had no other symptoms. When this was brought up to others many, many people we know both here in NH but also Maine had the same skull cramp. Coincidence? Who knows.
Agree, most people have already been exposed if they have been to a casino or sports event. Does anyone really believe that government moves faster than a virus?
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,732
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Don't forget people are going to have to sanitize their hands before and after using grab rails.
Good point. Sanitize your hands before handling public things, to prevent you from passing your infections to the public and sanitize your hands after handling public things to keep yourself from catching infections from the public.
Gloves? It works the same way. Gloves don't prevent the transfer of infection. They just keep it off your bare hands. Don't touch your face with gloves on. It's a false sense of security that can make it worse.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
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PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,222
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
Agree, most people have already been exposed if they have been to a casino or sports event. Does anyone really believe that government moves faster than a virus?
We don’t know how many people have been exposed unless we can test them for antibodies. Of the 14 different tests currently marketed for this in the U.S., three have been shown to be right most of the time. The others... not so much. The paper today cites federal predictions that the death rate is likely to double by July.

Re-opening without taking precautions is probably a poor choice. Schools in CT are not going to reopen this year. They probably can’t get enough testing or sanitizing done. You don’t know if your classmates and teachers are spreading it, cured of it, or susceptible to it. Imagine wiping down each bus between runs for elementary, middle, and high schools, plus keeping kids apart during the ride, or having a line of cars so long that it takes an hour to to drop your kids off at school. Plus sanitizing all the surfaces after the kids go home. We need to know more and make decisions based on facts.
 

Rick

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Oct 5, 2004
1,095
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
Has anyone here heard of "herd immunity". Its how we beat most viruses. We will not be safe from Corona until everyone has had it and we have antibodies. We will however, not have much of a country left if we keep on our current trajectory. Isolate those and take care of them until we have a vaccine. Put the rest, most of us, who probably have or have had the virus back to work or play or whatever, while we still have a country left. This isnt only about lives! Its our way of life people. Lets all go sailing. If you race give six feet of leeway. How easy is that.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,399
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Let's not take a thread off course in these times. There were a few relevant posts (my thoughts in paren):
  • Get your own dingy. (Sometimes not practical or even possible.)
  • Higher limit if same household. (Hard to prove, but I think it works.)
  • Require masks, no exceptions. (My launch, my rules, my suggestion.)
  • Take two passengers and pick the rest up at the fuel dock. (I'm not sure this is lower contact, because there will be a que at the fuel dock.)
The next few months will be full of compromise. (I wrote more and then deleted it--let's stay on-topic.)
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,732
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Higher limit if same household. (Hard to prove, but I think it works.)
Does it matter if it's true or just that the group agrees they are together? Everyone should know the risks and one of those risks is that any infection you expose yourself to is a potential future exposure to someone who may not have consented to the risk.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
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Oct 26, 2010
1,881
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
Protecting yourself and others, short of total isolation, is mostly influenced by several controllable factors that are involved with the use of a public conveyance like a club launch. We have a club launch. If you want to minimize your risk (short of 0 risk the person/people operating the launch need to take certain actions and you need to take certain actions.
1. Launch operator wears a mask and only the operator touches the controls (motor handle, wheel etc.)
2. Each passenger wears a mask while transiting from the car to the launch, on the launch and until they are safely on their boat. Maintain maximum distance possible and at least 6 feet from non-household members while in transit including the launch operator. That will determine how many people can be on the launch, not some arbitrary number
3. Each person is ultra careful in what they touch and how they avoid cross contamination. This virus does not absorb through the skin but rather through introduction into the respirtory system or presumably the eyes, etc. So the key is to know what you touch that could have the virus on it and not touch anything else that you can't sanitize with alcohol. They say "don't touch your face" but that is only half of the story to avoid cross contamination. You have to avoid touching your cloths, your wallet, your elbow or anything else. When you get to your boat, wipe everything down with sanitizer or spay with sanitizer.

Those of us that have served on nuclear ships or worked in the nuclear industry (and probably those in the medical field too) are quite familiar with how easy it is to cross-contaminate something and I treat it like I just entered and exited radioactively contaminated zone. Every hand and foot move is carefully "correographed" to minimize cross contamination.

Short of total and complete isolation (and I mean total non contact with anyone or anything that someone else has handled) there is also a risk. I don't want someone delivering my food to my door! I can't tell how careful they were in handling my groceries, what they touched, or how many people handled it. I can control what I do better. So - for me I'll ride the launch to the boat and enjoy sailing solo or with my wife.
 
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Rick

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Oct 5, 2004
1,095
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
I only read this post out of curiosity. Everyone wears a mask? What kind of mask? They have been proven to be non effective unless they are a specific type, and if you have one of those, you are not doing first responders any favors.. How old are you people? Are you inviting smokers? Harry who has RA? Sanitizing your hand rails? Hilarious. You should stay home if you are this concerned. Invite people you know. If they are not taking responsibility for themselves somewhat, why are you inviting them? Have a great time. If you are in the target group, (65 with a cronic disease) then you apply to the above posts. What are you doing? Also it has been proved that UVC, (sun) kills the fat cell on the virus.

Go out and have a great sail and do what you have been doing. I am not trying to hijack the thread. Im going sailing this weekend and was wondering what the starter of this thread would do.
 
Oct 26, 2010
1,881
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
I only read this post out of curiosity. Everyone wears a mask? What kind of mask? They have been proven to be non effective unless they are a specific type, and if you have one of those, you are not doing first responders any favors.. How old are you people? Are you inviting smokers? Harry who has RA? Sanitizing your hand rails? Hilarious. You should stay home if you are this concerned. Invite people you know. If they are not taking responsibility for themselves somewhat, why are you inviting them? Have a great time. If you are in the target group, (65 with a cronic disease) then you apply to the above posts. What are you doing? Also it has been proved that UVC, (sun) kills the fat cell on the virus.

Go out and have a great sail and do what you have been doing. I am not trying to hijack the thread. Im going sailing this weekend and was wondering what the starter of this thread would do.
Rick, I'm not sure where you are coming from.

1. Thre are effective cloth masks for the purpose of reducing spray (ie sneezes and coughing) from launching a great distance. Thats the reason for the mask, not to allow you direct contact with someone like a first responder or nurse would be called upon to do. The mask protect them, not you so yes a mask is a good idea. Probably secondary to good "body" control." Why not do what you can to minimize (not eliminate) risk.
2. Who said anything about inviting Harry who has RA or Joe the smoker? I'm talking about sailing with immediate family members and depending on the risk you are willing to take, invited guests. I wouldn't invite Joe the high risk guy to sail nor would I invite Ed the EMT or Suzie the nurse at the ER to go sailing, for my risk reduction, not hers.
3. Who said anything about sanitizing your hand rails? I'm talking about sanitizing the things you immediately touched after boarding from the launch where you probably touched some commonly touched surfaces. How much of that you do is a matter of risk tolerance and your "preexisting conditions." I keep alcohol sanitizer in a small squeeze bottle and, for example, sanitize my credit card after I had to hand it to someone or use it in an ATM. By the way, I'd bet a good bottle of single malt that I've spent more time suiting up and removing gear to prevent cross contamination (from radioactive particles) than most of the members on this board have spent putting on their foul weather gear.

Rick, I'm not at all risk averse. In fact you'd probably say I am a risk taker. Yes, I am in the high risk group - I'm 69 have had 3 heart attacks, had 3 stents, died on the table and had 5 way bypass and I went sailing yesterday!!! AND to boot, I rode on a launch to get to my boat on a mooring. By the way, I have taught Risk Assessment in the nuclear industry so I am well versed on risk and risk reduction. The question that started this was what were the rules you are seeing if your club or marina operates a launch. If I was 21 and back in my "top conditon" shape I'd probably be a lot less conservative but when you have to set "rules for use" like a club might do you defer to a reasonable control set of rules since you don't know the risks of each user of the launch. You have to either take reasonable controls or risk litigation at some time in the future. Believe me, lawyers will be all over this in a few years like flies on a garbage truck.
 
Oct 26, 2010
1,881
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
Rick, I see where you got the "sanitize your handrail" from my first post. That was not my intention. I mean wipe down the things you touched when you first got off the launch before you had a chance to sanitize your hands, not the whole boat. Sorry if I mislead you with that. If you've ever sat through a "radiation control" demonstration where they passed around a picture that had a very small amount of "black light" visible tracer on it and then later turned on the black light its a hoot. You'll be able to see who picked their nose for sure!
 

Rick

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Oct 5, 2004
1,095
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
@smokey73 Happy Cinco de mayo on a Taco Tuesday only to be ruined by one of my favorite beers named Corona. Where I am coming from is similar to what you are saying, just maybe not as eloquent. I shouldnt have responded. I happen to think that we all need to be exposed so we ALL can develop anti bodies to this virus just like every one before. You are a prime target for this. Take every precaution you feel is right! And what you said about the government couldnt be more true. What will they convince us to do next? Hey Smokey, I am a cancer survivor. 60 and it was Melanoma, so I am looking in the mirror when I say SUNSCREEN.

Cheers,
Just curious Smokey, are you an ex Marine?
 
Oct 26, 2010
1,881
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
Rick, Happy Cico De Mayo day to you too. I'll probably be going sailing later this week too. I normally go solo since my wife is Type 1 Diabetic but she has her diabetes under tight control and she has gone with me once or twice. Most of my tight controls are to protect her. This is going to be a long drawn out haul until we get to herd immunity or a vacine is available unless the summer heat really stops this in its tracks and that is probably wishful thinking. It will be really interesting to see how Sweden does with their experiment on "no controls." Stay safe and enjoy the outside and the sailing.