Hello, I am in the UK and a Hunter single handed racer based on a legend 45 has come to market. It is a repossession against unpaid yard fees, so apologies if you were the former owner or know the former owner. Built in 1988 and campaigned in various trans-Atlantic and round the world races from 1988 to the late 1990s. It was called SkyCatcher and was sailed by Nigel Rowe who retired in 1994 BOC Challenge due to rudder issues somewhere near Australia. I don't own this boat, I am in the process of buying it and am trying to get all of the information I can about it prior to accepting all the liabilities that involves. This yacht although based on a Legend 45 is 48 feet long, has what looks like a different deck moulding and is cutter rigged with rod rigging, 10' wing keel and water ballast. I am not sure if Mr Luhrs would have built a whole new boat by making a purpose built mould, if it was constructed using a protoyping technique over a core or if he would have just stuck an additional bow moulding onto a Legend 45 to create the forward crash bulkhead. Anyone who knows the construction techniques, history or who has any other information especially pictures of the rig would be really handy. If I can save this yacht, it might be ideal for my sailing style.
SkyCatcher Hunter 48 single handed racer
- Thread starter Ballast boy
- Start date
Wow quite a pedigree. Would be quite a project. I'm not sure I'd take it on. Short-handed boats have come a very long way in the last 30 years. And that one has been rode hard and put away wet.
For anyone playing along at home....
http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1282735/
For anyone playing along at home....
http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1282735/
I totally agree to your caution. I know I could go faster in a mini-transat or buy the old Knox Johnson open 60 for £135K, which would be nippy in a current sort of way but all boats are a compromise. This is a big boat and I would not expect it to be competitive as a race boat any more but if you wanted to cover miles and clean the insides by washing it down with a bucket of water it represents a compelling option. I have been looking for something biggish with water ballast for single handed or short handed passage. I am spending about 9 months a year sailing at the moment, so this might represent some serious fun. In any case it would be a shame if people didn't attempt to save older race boats when they aren't competitive any more. It is a bit like shooting greyhounds or something. I would have preferred under 45' ie not class XII just in terms of running costs but I would like to explore this. My question relates to construction really. The dimensions in the advert aren't correct. It is down as being based on a Legend 45 but it is narrower as well as longer. I am trying to establish how it is constructed based on what Luhrs was up to at the time. Obviously if the oft (mis)quoted Hunter build quality had been employed and it was knocked up with a chopper gun with a deck 'balanced' on top it might be totally spent as a structure but it may have been made very well, as my impression from reading the other threads would suggest Mr Luhrs was totally engrossed in racing at this time and he might have put some thought and effort into it. The boat has been sailed but looks to have been laid up a lot longer than it has been used.
Sorry that should have said 'ex' Knox Johnson boat. I realise it might be construed to suggest Mr KJ is getting on a bit. Whilst the man is an institution I would not to infer he is old because he is still getting out there and taking on the ocean. Total inspiration.
Hmmm, not really had the flood of responses I was expecting from this. Can anyone tell me how a standard Legend 45 constructed? Is is woven GRP or chopped strand mat? Is it cored on the deck or hull, or deck and topsides with a monolithic construction under the waterline? Is it made with Polyester resin??
I have had a look at this one now and my guess is that it isn't run of the mill. I would find it hard to believe you could realistically make a profit producing boats in the way it is constructed but I would like to know how similar or different the construction is to a Legend 45. I have also had a chat with the guy who sailed it round the world and it did have some pretty weird features like a device that pumped a screen of bubbles in a line behind the rudder to increase separation and reduce drag, a B & R rig with Morrison Struts on the mast to support the gooseneck area. It is certainly more powerfully rigged and lighter, with a sail area of 1200 ft^2 and displacement 2 tonnes lower than the Legend 45. The Sail area: displacement ratio is in the mid 20s, which is pretty sporty for a single handed ocean racer. It also wooped several 50'+ yachts with half the displacement in the leg from North America to South Africa, so it might be out of date as an ocean racer but could still probably go fast enough to sail round storms.
I still haven't worked out if it is structurally spent though. I had some problems accessing parts of it. Any help appreciated.
I have had a look at this one now and my guess is that it isn't run of the mill. I would find it hard to believe you could realistically make a profit producing boats in the way it is constructed but I would like to know how similar or different the construction is to a Legend 45. I have also had a chat with the guy who sailed it round the world and it did have some pretty weird features like a device that pumped a screen of bubbles in a line behind the rudder to increase separation and reduce drag, a B & R rig with Morrison Struts on the mast to support the gooseneck area. It is certainly more powerfully rigged and lighter, with a sail area of 1200 ft^2 and displacement 2 tonnes lower than the Legend 45. The Sail area: displacement ratio is in the mid 20s, which is pretty sporty for a single handed ocean racer. It also wooped several 50'+ yachts with half the displacement in the leg from North America to South Africa, so it might be out of date as an ocean racer but could still probably go fast enough to sail round storms.
I still haven't worked out if it is structurally spent though. I had some problems accessing parts of it. Any help appreciated.
Respectfully, do you have any idea how big a project it is to renew this boat? If you are doing all the work yourself, this could be a 2 year stint. Think you need to assess this very carefully. Take your time. I don't think there will be a lineup of competitive bidders.
Hello, thanks for your concern. I am aware what is involved. My main issue at the moment is trying to find out how it has been constructed, preferably by someone who was involved in building it. It would help me to know how it was made in more detail to assess if it is likely to be fatigued beyond its serviceable life. A grp yacht can look spotless and still have either damaged cores or fatigued laminates that would mean it was spent and as Jackdaw said, it would have seen some hard service, so it may be due to be cut up.
In terms of queue for a project of this type, this was sold with some difficulty some 25 years ago for £25K as a fully working boat ready to set off round the world with in-date equipment. and then a dreamer bought it in 2009 with pretty much the same systems and equipment, which at that point were knackered for £35K. It was at that time ready for a significant refit. So yes there are clearly people who pay more than things are worth. Boats tend to be expensive in the UK and importing into the EU has been made quite hard with the RCD and is generally expensive. There will be people who would just look at the size and see value and probably the thought it could be refitted as a cruiser with a nice cherry wood interior. I am not one of those people though, so no worries.
Any help on information about its construction would help though prior to engaging my surveyor and paying for core sample analysis. Surely someone knows how it was built?
In terms of queue for a project of this type, this was sold with some difficulty some 25 years ago for £25K as a fully working boat ready to set off round the world with in-date equipment. and then a dreamer bought it in 2009 with pretty much the same systems and equipment, which at that point were knackered for £35K. It was at that time ready for a significant refit. So yes there are clearly people who pay more than things are worth. Boats tend to be expensive in the UK and importing into the EU has been made quite hard with the RCD and is generally expensive. There will be people who would just look at the size and see value and probably the thought it could be refitted as a cruiser with a nice cherry wood interior. I am not one of those people though, so no worries.
Any help on information about its construction would help though prior to engaging my surveyor and paying for core sample analysis. Surely someone knows how it was built?
I am not super familiar with the 45, but there was no chopped strand matting used except in cosmetic places. Hull is not cored, it is solid woven glass cloth . Deck is cored; original with marine ply, that boat may have had balsa to save weight. Hull was internally stiffened with a load bearing grid that used load oriented fiberglass in the high load places, like shroud anchors . The grid is stiffened with large glass beams; the whole thing is glued into the hull to make one structure. Production boat used something like 3M 5200.... that boat may have had something different.
Yes, I do have some information from the person who extended her to 48'. The deck is down on an early survey as Divinycell cored, although I am pretty sure I am looking at balsa on the cut out for the mast. This in itself is a worry because I would always tend to spin out the core locally on any core through-bolting or apertures and back it up with bog to encapsulate the core. I have seen some extensive damage when holes are drilled and water ingress has occurred. The hull, including the area under the waterline appears to be balsa cored. This may not be a problem if the core was vacuumed onto the laminates but if these cores aren't fitted with care it can cause all manner of problems further down the line. It is this sort of detail I am really hoping someone will be able to help me with. The more I know about its construction, the better. Initially it was built for Courtney Hazelton to race as Marico (sometimes called Mariko), who I understand was an employee of the company and who also went on to Sail with Warren Luhrs and Lars Bergstrom on Hunters Child. As such it appears to be one of 3 famous Hunter ocean single-handers and it would be interesting to know if it is likely to have been built quickly as a disposable piece of advertising for the marque or if it would have been constructed with care. In any event it seems very different to a Legend 45. Even without the ballast tanks there isn't the space inside I am inferring from the Legend 45, so it may have less freeboard, which on this construction method would mean cutting a tooling mould down and it may have an entirely different deck moulding or a modified on. It might be knackered though!!
No apology required Kloudie 1, your answer was very helpful indeed.
I did read a thread that I think was entitled 'does Hunter go the distance' (2002) in which construction was discussed, as was the rig, the most sophisticated new models, the arch and indeed the three racers, Marico, Thursdays Child and Hunters Child. It did go into some detail about the lamination schedule and general construction for Hunter boats but it was hard to know if it was referring to the newest models, the entire range or the construction of just the larger boats. I have not heard until now how the Legend 45 was put together. If you have given me a summary of the construction of a Legend 45 it is the most helpful response I have had to date because I can compare that to what I am looking at on the boat in question. One of my initial questions was is this a standard Legend 45 with ballast tanks and the answer would appear to be probably not. The next question would have to be specifically how is it different and probably more importantly 28 years later, was she built to last? Many thanks for all responses.
I did read a thread that I think was entitled 'does Hunter go the distance' (2002) in which construction was discussed, as was the rig, the most sophisticated new models, the arch and indeed the three racers, Marico, Thursdays Child and Hunters Child. It did go into some detail about the lamination schedule and general construction for Hunter boats but it was hard to know if it was referring to the newest models, the entire range or the construction of just the larger boats. I have not heard until now how the Legend 45 was put together. If you have given me a summary of the construction of a Legend 45 it is the most helpful response I have had to date because I can compare that to what I am looking at on the boat in question. One of my initial questions was is this a standard Legend 45 with ballast tanks and the answer would appear to be probably not. The next question would have to be specifically how is it different and probably more importantly 28 years later, was she built to last? Many thanks for all responses.
Many thanks for your help with this. The boat appears to have been sold for pretty much the asking price but not to me. In fact I didn't even get an opportunity to raise my offer or have a bit of a haggle. I was just sort of ignored! I did take my time, as suggested, and even in what is very much a buyers' market, it has achieved a lot more than I had expected, especially as it is liable for taxes at 20% (although the new owner may not yet be aware), about £25,000 to £30,000 of materials minimum and of course a year or so of hard labour. It does illustrate the difference in outlook for yachts in Europe. They just seem to be a whole lot more expensive than the US, and usually parts are the same price in GP£ as they are US $, so half as expensive again. I hope the new owner preserves this historic boat as well as bringing her back into service, rather than whipping out the ballast tanks and fitting 5 double cabins with en-suits. All the best to them in their adventures though and thank you to everyone who replied to this post.
Ballast Boy - I'm sorry to be so late but I just ran across this thread. I had some involvement in the building of this boat and can answer some of your questions if you're still interested.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,196
This is a post from 2016. So doubt if all participants are still around. BallastBoy has not been seen in these parts since Sept 2017.
Welcome to the forum.
Welcome to the forum.
Re Sky Catcher, thank you for posting Goody2Shoes. We bought Sky Catcher and it would be a pleasure to hear from you soon. I have sent you a pm.