Sinking Feeling

[Mike8193]

I read this thread with great interest. I have asked a lot of questions about through hulls and seacocks. I always close all of them. I want to ask however, do you all have bilge pumps that run automatically when you are away? I am at a mooring and away from my boat a week or two at a time. My boat fortunately is always dry. I have to shut down my batteries when I leave or they will drain down (can't figure out why). I thought of hardwiring a bilge pump to my battery and then I could still shut the batteries down when leaving and the pump could kick in if needed. However, it seemed to me that if I had that big a leak and was gone for a week or two the battery would drain down from all the pumping and the boat fill up anyway. Mike

 

[Roger Long]

I believe that the bilge pumps should be hardwired directly to the battery terminals through a fuse. Then there is no way they can be turned off accidentally and it is possible to shut off all other items on the boat including possible electric leaks. If there is a reason to turn off the pumps, such as filling the bilge to flush it out, you can pull the fuse.

I've found the lifespan of typical pumps, such as Rule, is pretty short when they are sitting in the water and being run often for short periods. If the pumps have long hose runs and are large enough to move a good amount of water, there will be considerable back flow through the hoses when they shut off and water in the bilge. The water level is over the pump seal and eventually gets in.

The solution is to raise the big "save the boat" pump(s) and their switches so that they remain dry until there is a real emergency. Then install a small, inexpensive, pump to handle routine dewatering tasks such as stuffing box leaks, condensation, etc.

You can see my set up here:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/StriderFuelSystem.htm

it's part of the new fuel tank installation and the bilge pumping description is towards the bottom of the page.

My manual bilge pump goes to a small sump below the level of the small electric pump so a few strokes get's that one dry as well.

 

[sailingdog]

Mike—

You really need three things:

1) A bilge pump hardwired to the batteries with a switch that has on/off/auto positions.

2) A bilge pump counter for said bilge pump, that can tell you how often it cycled.

3) A solar panel or wind gen to replace whatever electricity the maintenance bilge pump uses up.

As part of your closing down the boat to leave it routine, you'd write the counter number on the ship's log, and when you get to the boat, you write down the number that is on it then, and see how many times it cycled. Divide the difference by the number of days and you'll have an average count of bilge pump cycles per day. If this number increases, then you need to be looking for a leak.

Ideally, you'd have two bilge pumps. A small maintenance one, with the counter, and a larger one with a high-water alarm. That way, if the water comes in faster than the maintenance pump can handle, the people who may be around your boat will hear the high-water alarm going off and can notify you about it.

BTW, if you keep the boat on a mooring, it is probably wise to have a sign or notice on the boat with your contact information on it, just in case of emergencies...

I read this thread with great interest. I have asked a lot of questions about through hulls and seacocks. I always close all of them. I want to ask however, do you all have bilge pumps that run automatically when you are away? I am at a mooring and away from my boat a week or two at a time. My boat fortunately is always dry. I have to shut down my batteries when I leave or they will drain down (can't figure out why). I thought of hardwiring a bilge pump to my battery and then I could still shut the batteries down when leaving and the pump could kick in if needed. However, it seemed to me that if I had that big a leak and was gone for a week or two the battery would drain down from all the pumping and the boat fill up anyway. Mike

 

[terry5640]

freezing?

I would check the hose and hull fittings with fresh water (like all gray water fittings) frozen water makes a perfect seal in such areas, until you have a thaw.

I used to be involved in bubbling many boats in fresh water, the first thaw in January of February was exciting on several occasions in that a boat without proper antifreeze in these areas often went down.

Terry s/v stardust

 

[We2Sail12113]

I need some help understanding this one. I was checking on a friend's boat (1991 H33) last week while he was away and discovered about 3" of water above the floorboards. He had been gone about two weeks. After pumping all the water from the boat we found, of course, the bilge pump was not working. That part was easy. After checking all the thru hulls and the stuffing box and finding nothing wrong, checked the water tank and also found no leaks. . . . my boat it's driving me crazy! Anybody got any other ideas?

I have observed on my 1978 H27, that in a very strong wind, the water can pile up behind the flat transom so high that it can back flush into the cockpit.

That said, under normal conditions, this is not a problem IF THE HOSES between the said above water through hulls are in good condition. As a quick test, plug up the cockpit through hulls, and pour water down the cockpit drains. I am not sure on the H33, but on the H27 aft of the cockpit is also a well (that I use for gasoline tank storage) which also drains through the cockpit scuppers.

When I checked my hoses last year, they leaked under pressure, but not under free flow. I replaced them!

Not on mine, but I understand that on some boats the scuppers also drain through the cockpit through hulls.


Bob

 

[Sailkota]

Good Neighbors

My boat is a H336 and water 6" deep in the bilge is a big concern let alone 3" above the sole. Have replaced the original bilge pump and find that a perfectly dry bilge is near impossible. Rain enters the mast and finds its way to the bilge, the packing gland must drip or its too tight, and during topside scrubs some water finds its way to the interior. A prankster is high on my list of possible causes for the flood.

 

[moehorenfeldt]

Possible water leaks into the boat.

I would check the two stuffing boxes. One is obviously for the prop shaft,
the second is at the rudder shaft. Leace a paper towel around each and see if it wet or damp the next day. If it is, you know what to do.:dance:

 

[THE BREEZE]

That sinking feeling

A guy at my dock just sank his boat. He left the sink hose on from the dock. The high pressure knocked off the hose clamps. The bilge pump quit after a while and down she went. It was in 7' of water so they had about 3' of fresh water inside. Make sure the water from the dock is off and disconnect the hose.

 

[Peter Fridman]

Dennis I had a similar problem on a older H 33, start your engine, observe if your bilge fills up with salty and warm water, if so check your muffler connections. If Hunter installed a SS mufler as it did on mine check for sodered joints on it, they can leek.

Peter Fridman
LUMITA, H43
Fajardo, PR

I need some help understanding this one. I was checking on a friend's boat (1991 H33) last week while he was away and discovered about 3" of water above the floorboards. He had been gone about two weeks. After pumping all the water from the boat we found, of course, the bilge pump was not working. That part was easy. After checking all the thru hulls and the stuffing box and finding nothing wrong, checked the water tank and also found no leaks. Well, then it surely has to be the keel bolts or a rain water leak (although the water tasted somewhat salty.) Put in a new bilge pump, dried the bilge completely and left it. The next day it rained extremely hard so checked the boat again. Bilge was dry. Even though this isn't my boat it's driving me crazy! Anybody got any other ideas?

 

[Cool_Change]

Re the siphoning head suggestion....Dennis indicated in his followup info that the head was 1/4 full of chemical. If the amount of water that he described originally had siphoned through I don't think that chemical would still be evident.

Short of there being a hatch or port being left open letting in rain (and is sounds like they get a lot of rain there) that got closed after the original bailing out, any thruhulls closer to the water line are sounding the most likely...

 

[Ross]

Dundas Scott, Lets compare sunset pictures

 

[Niels]

LEAK

I agree with diagnosis of packing gland if the water tastes salty.

 

[Ron20324]

Might this have happened when the flood came in warm weather, then maybe a freeze blocked whatever intake was leaking and would not pass water? It was 60 today, so maybe another leak?

 

[PBJ]

Having been there myself...I can empathize and sympathize. I have an 84 Hunter 31 and last thanksgiving after about a month after my last visit, I discovered the bow low in the water (water was just above the water line). I stepped inside the dark boat to ankle deep water. The bilge pump did not work and I spent several hours hand bailing out the boat before I felt it safe to go for the night and come back tomorrow with a new pump. It was 11 PM when I stopped by the boat and I had a sore body but the water was back at the floor boards by 1 AM! It's amazing how cold the water fells until you're working up a sweat trying to get the water back to her home in the bay. The next day after pumping it dry, I discovered that my packing gland was a steady flow of water. That weekend, I discovered the joy of replacing packing material while the boat is in the water. And even though I do use the boat often, I still close all seacocks when closing up the boat for the night. I leave one porthole open for mold prevention so I usually have a little water in the bilge...If I want it dry, I bring out the shop vac! In addition to the seacocks, I'd also double check all of the hoses to make sure they are properly connected and are not leaking anywhere and that they all have double clamps. If you're really concerned, you can install a counter for your bilge pump to see how often it's coming on. Finally, I'd suggest your friends install a small (360 gph) pump at the bottom of the bilge to take care of normal bilge and a second, larger (1000+ gph) pump high to take care of those times that the small one can't keep up OR fails. That’s going into my boat soon.

 

[Rich (P303)]

I need some help understanding this one. I was checking on a friend's boat (1991 H33) last week while he was away and discovered about 3" of water above the floorboards. He had been gone about two weeks. After pumping all the water from the boat we found, of course, the bilge pump was not working. That part was easy. After checking all the thru hulls and the stuffing box and finding nothing wrong, checked the water tank and also found no leaks. Well, then it surely has to be the keel bolts or a rain water leak (although the water tasted somewhat salty.) Put in a new bilge pump, dried the bilge completely and left it. The next day it rained extremely hard so checked the boat again. Bilge was dry. Even though this isn't my boat it's driving me crazy! Anybody got any other ideas?

We need to know the cause... keep us posted.

 

[jcela]

I need some help understanding this one. I was checking on a friend's boat (1991 H33) last week while he was away and discovered about 3" of water above the floorboards. He had been gone about two weeks. After pumping all the water from the boat we found, of course, the bilge pump was not working. That part was easy. After checking all the thru hulls and the stuffing box and finding nothing wrong, checked the water tank and also found no leaks. Well, then it surely has to be the keel bolts or a rain water leak (although the water tasted somewhat salty.) Put in a new bilge pump, dried the bilge completely and left it. The next day it rained extremely hard so checked the boat again. Bilge was dry. Even though this isn't my boat it's driving me crazy! Anybody got any other ideas?

Dennis,
First I have to thank you for your question and then everyone who wrote you back with suggestions and recomendations, because they made me realized how many areas I needed to check on my boat. So I drove the 34 miles to Kemah to check on all my thru hulls and they were all dry and no leaks found so I closed all of them, something that I had negleted to do every time I used my boat?????, I promise that after reading all the recomendations, I wont do that anymore. But while I was doing that I was able to find a thru hull that I did not I had, the one that brings water to cool the condenser of the onboard Air Conditioning, I did not I had one extra valve to close. Dennis, does your friend's boat have an A/C? if it does it must have a water hose connected to a thru hull somewhere.
Please share with us when you are able to find the source of the leak.
Cheers
Jorge

 

[Dennis Honeycutt]

Sinking Feeling Update
Well, its really not much of an update. The boat in question (H33.5) was pumped out, dried out, and a dehumidifier put in place. Went back and checked all thru hulls, knot and depth meters, head and all plumbing, exhaust system, packing on rudder and shaft, A/C, and keel bolts....all dry with the exception of a small (less than 1/2" water in the bilge). Just so happened it really poured down raining while we were there and there was not a drop coming in. I think I've gotten to the point of declaring defeat!

By the way, thanks for all the input on this board. I don't post very often but the information is found here is fantastic. As a result of this post, I've gone back over my boat and changed some things that I should have been doing.

 

[sailingdog]

Thanks for the update.

 

[Franklin]

Only other thing I can think of is if the AC is set to de-humidify, then that might cause the extra water in the bildge. I believe the de-humidify setting kicks in the AC once every 4 hours but for how long I can't remember.

 

[Dennis Honeycutt]

His particular A/C doesn't have that option. He went and bought a standalone dehumidifier from Lowes. It seems to be doing a really good job considering the water that was in the boat.