I need some help understanding this one. I was checking on a friend's boat (1991 H33) last week while he was away and discovered about 3" of water above the floorboards. He had been gone about two weeks. After pumping all the water from the boat we found, of course, the bilge pump was not working. That part was easy. After checking all the thru hulls and the stuffing box and finding nothing wrong, checked the water tank and also found no leaks. Well, then it surely has to be the keel bolts or a rain water leak (although the water tasted somewhat salty.) Put in a new bilge pump, dried the bilge completely and left it. The next day it rained extremely hard so checked the boat again. Bilge was dry. Even though this isn't my boat it's driving me crazy! Anybody got any other ideas?
Sinking Feeling
- Thread starter Dennis Honeycutt
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The first thing to do
is close all sea cocks when you are going to be away from the boat and see if you still have water coming in. There are too many possible sources with them open. It could be toilet intake, sink drains, engine cooling anything that is connected to a through hull valve.
Hose clamps come loose with vibration, bad gaskets in the cooling water and on and on. The best way is to open everything up an get a good view of it. Engine exhaust hoses and muffler are other possible sources.
A slow leak can really add up in a few days. Get everything dried off and then start looking and feeling for moisture along hoses.
is close all sea cocks when you are going to be away from the boat and see if you still have water coming in. There are too many possible sources with them open. It could be toilet intake, sink drains, engine cooling anything that is connected to a through hull valve.
Hose clamps come loose with vibration, bad gaskets in the cooling water and on and on. The best way is to open everything up an get a good view of it. Engine exhaust hoses and muffler are other possible sources.
A slow leak can really add up in a few days. Get everything dried off and then start looking and feeling for moisture along hoses.
Dennis:
Did you check the packing gland? This is probably the most probable leak. They may have used the boat and never checked, so the water built up in the bilge.
Did you check the packing gland? This is probably the most probable leak. They may have used the boat and never checked, so the water built up in the bilge.
How deep is the bilge on a H33? 3" above the floor boards means the entire bilge and cabin is filled with that much water, and that's pretty significant for just two weeks.
Also, did you have any really heavy weather during the two weeks?? If you did, the leak may be dynamic, rather than static, and just a heavy rain wouldn't cause it to occur.
Also, did you have any really heavy weather during the two weeks?? If you did, the leak may be dynamic, rather than static, and just a heavy rain wouldn't cause it to occur.
This is why I have three cockpit drains, and a full bridgedeck in my cockpit. The water would have to get to be 14' deep before it floods the cabin, and the transom is only 12" high... 
I now have two 3 inch drains with backflow valves and my companion way is a couple of inches higher than the coamings and my cockpit is one third the size that it once was.This is why I have three cockpit drains, and a full bridgedeck in my cockpit. The water would have to get to be 14' deep before it floods the cabin, and the transom is only 12" high...
That is very strange... with the amount of water you had found... surely there would have been some sign of water coming in the next day when you checked.
Essentially you did nothing but get the water out.
There has to be water coming in someplace that you could trace now.
Let us know what you find.
When I built the bridgedeck, it reduced the cockpit size by five cubic feet as well as raising the companionway threshold. Also, stiffened up the whole back end of the boat and probably helps transfer the loads from the amas across the cockpit as well.
Also, stiffened up the whole back end of the boat and probably helps transfer the loads from the amas across the cockpit as well.
It could be either a dynamic leak that only occurs when the hull or boat is under stress, like that of heavy seas during a storm, or it could be that the leak is a few inches above the water line and needs the heavy seas to force water in through it.
You said that you "checked" the thru-hulls. You did not say what state they were in, open/closed, nor what state that you left them in. I agree that 3" above the cabin sole is a lot of water ever, let alone in two weeks. Normal leaks from a water tank, a packing gland, or rain would never let in that much water. And if they did you would have seen it at the next check. Don't know what to think.
Something just occurred to me
You said you put a new bilge pump in. If his old bilge pump wasn't working, but the new one is, it's not surprising that you wouldn't have found any new water in the boat when you checked it again...the new pump kept up with it. So turn the new one off and check again in a few hours.
The first thing to check is the toilet bowl, for rising water in it. Was the toilet bowl full of water when you found the cabin full of water? If it was, I think that's your culprit--an open head seacock, coupled with no intake vented loop and a failing wet/dry valve that's allowing slow seepage.Relying on a wet/dry valve to keep a boat afloat instead of closing the seacock has sunk many a boat.
You said you put a new bilge pump in. If his old bilge pump wasn't working, but the new one is, it's not surprising that you wouldn't have found any new water in the boat when you checked it again...the new pump kept up with it. So turn the new one off and check again in a few hours.
The first thing to check is the toilet bowl, for rising water in it. Was the toilet bowl full of water when you found the cabin full of water? If it was, I think that's your culprit--an open head seacock, coupled with no intake vented loop and a failing wet/dry valve that's allowing slow seepage.Relying on a wet/dry valve to keep a boat afloat instead of closing the seacock has sunk many a boat.
One point, a bilge pump won't keep a bilge perfectly dry, since most will allow some water to sit in the bottom of the bilge, even if it is just the backflow from the hose draining when the pump shuts down.
When you say the bilge is dry, is it dry—as in no water in it at all, or is it dry as in there's a tiny bit at the bottom of it that the bilge pump can't get out. There's a big difference between the two.
When you say the bilge is dry, is it dry—as in no water in it at all, or is it dry as in there's a tiny bit at the bottom of it that the bilge pump can't get out. There's a big difference between the two.
There are two ways to determine the water in flow rate. Install a running time clock on the bilge pump or take a book with you and shut the power off and read for an hour or two and check the bilge.
It would seem that the boat accumulates about two inches per week depending upon the depth of the bilge.( i have deep bilges and 3 inches above the cabin sole would be a couple of hundred gallons). However 2 inches per week is only 3/8 inch in 24 hours in a flat pan. (which the bilge ain't). So sponge the bilge dry, shut off the power to the pumps and hang out for a long while and see what you find. If there is a below the waterline leak you should find it within a day. If it is above the waterline but within the splash line it will be harder to find. If it is rain water then a bucket dipped over the side will provide a means to flood the deck while someone below looks for leaks.
It would seem that the boat accumulates about two inches per week depending upon the depth of the bilge.( i have deep bilges and 3 inches above the cabin sole would be a couple of hundred gallons). However 2 inches per week is only 3/8 inch in 24 hours in a flat pan. (which the bilge ain't). So sponge the bilge dry, shut off the power to the pumps and hang out for a long while and see what you find. If there is a below the waterline leak you should find it within a day. If it is above the waterline but within the splash line it will be harder to find. If it is rain water then a bucket dipped over the side will provide a means to flood the deck while someone below looks for leaks.
Thanks for all the suggestions. As for some of the questions, all the thru hulls were and are open since they do frequent the boat during the winter. Also, the packing gland wasn't dripping at all. This particular Hunter has an open stern so no scuppers to clog. The head was about 1/4 full with chemical to prevent freezing. Good point on the bilge pump. Although there was a little water in the bilge it didn't appear to be to the point that it would even raise the float switch. We did have a torrential rain (2 1/2") which didn't seem to add to the water level. Also checked the knotmeter and depth sounder just in case....still nothing.
There is about 2 1/2 quarts of water in a square foot inch. If you roughly figure the bilge area then you can calculate the volume of water involved. Knowing that will help you determine the size of the leak you are looking for. A drippy faucet will fill a dish pan over night.
You Said You Checked The Fresh Water Tank...
...was it full? Was the pressure water switch on? I'd be inclined to look at the fresh water side now. It may have been 'slightly salty' even if it was a fresh water leak. However, if not, I'm inclined to think it was the head siphoning in. Good think you were around to check on it! He owes you one.
...was it full? Was the pressure water switch on? I'd be inclined to look at the fresh water side now. It may have been 'slightly salty' even if it was a fresh water leak. However, if not, I'm inclined to think it was the head siphoning in. Good think you were around to check on it! He owes you one.
Re: You Said You Checked The Fresh Water Tank...
The water pressure switch was not on and the tank was full. That was my first thought too, especially with the onset of some pretty cold temps. I'll be going back up there the first of the week and check again. I'll let you know.
The water pressure switch was not on and the tank was full. That was my first thought too, especially with the onset of some pretty cold temps. I'll be going back up there the first of the week and check again. I'll let you know.
Very bad practice!
"all the thru hulls were and are open since they do frequent the boat during the winter."
Which means they never close 'em during the summer either. Unless they're actually TRYING to sink the boat, frequent use is not a reason, nor even an excuse, to leave thru-hulls open when away from the boat. In fact, it's outright negligence, 'cuz if you could get to all of 'em to check 'em, they're accessible.
I'm guessing that sailingdog is on the right track...wind and/or seas heeled the boat enough put an open thru-hull under water. And the more water in the boat, the more it weighs...and the more it weighs, the lower it sits in the water, putting other thru-hulls under water. As Ross noted, it only takes a dripping faucet to fill up a dishpan overnight...imagine what just a drip can do in a week. And then think about how fast it comes in a open thru-hull.
SO CLOSE THE BLOOMIN' SEACOCKS!!! Ok??? And close your own when you leave the boat too!
"all the thru hulls were and are open since they do frequent the boat during the winter."
Which means they never close 'em during the summer either. Unless they're actually TRYING to sink the boat, frequent use is not a reason, nor even an excuse, to leave thru-hulls open when away from the boat. In fact, it's outright negligence, 'cuz if you could get to all of 'em to check 'em, they're accessible.
I'm guessing that sailingdog is on the right track...wind and/or seas heeled the boat enough put an open thru-hull under water. And the more water in the boat, the more it weighs...and the more it weighs, the lower it sits in the water, putting other thru-hulls under water. As Ross noted, it only takes a dripping faucet to fill up a dishpan overnight...imagine what just a drip can do in a week. And then think about how fast it comes in a open thru-hull.
SO CLOSE THE BLOOMIN' SEACOCKS!!! Ok??? And close your own when you leave the boat too!
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