Single Handing a Catalina 250

Jackdaw · Jan 17, 2016

Meriachee said:
Ok, thank you very much, I will..
The trick is to intimately know what you brung can do, how to make it do the best it can do, and do it tactically better than the phrf would suggest, but, not so much better that they change the numbers on you.
Having a set of controls that you can see but can't get to is useless. That has nothing to do with a wheel or a tiller. By way of example, we spent a ridiculous amount of time reworking the main-sheet controls on the 270. The factory design of typing up a winch is an unacceptable solution for us. Having a winch available for use is necessary. The design and mounting spot for the rear winch option is maybe not the most crew friendly spot, but it's a far better solution than no secondary winches, when the option of staring at the main and thinking for a second that it might be too much work is absolutely unacceptable. When you can give boats in a faster class cause to sharpen their pencils, then it was worth getting out of bed.

None of this applies to the original discussion, but relates to single handing. If the setup on the boat doesn't work for you, change it. If you're going to single hand, the controls need to be accessible, and if you have to "go someplace" to do something, then you need a way of taming the steering. The tools you have at hand, tiller or wheel really don't matter in this conversation, the boat has a wheel. How do you make that work to your best advantage?
(and ya, Jack, it's a pretty cool sled, can I have one for my birthday?) (How about just the main?)

Of course I agree with all that. And yes for sure the reality for many is that you make the best of what you have, and get on with it. Clearly not everyone can or wants to buy a boat specifically designed for short handed sailing. But I know a lot of people that have and it effects my outlook. While our First 260 is actually close to an ideal short hander, our First 36.7 was designed for fully crewed buoy racing and to a lesser degree fast cruising. But we race it short handed and still do well. Do I wish it was the tiller version (only available in Europe)? Yes, but that was not an option here in the USA so we got the wheel. Would the tiller be better for shorthanding? Yes. But part of the fun is killing it anyway. Like this; the finish of a double handed race that was part of the 2015 Lake Superior mid-distance championship that we won. We're about to win on handicap easily, but the best part is crossing the bow of a much faster (PHRF 62 vs 75) Sunfast 3600 to also be the first to finish. A good day, EVEN WITH A WHEEL. ;^)

druid · Jan 17, 2016

Jack, did you read the part where I said for RACING, a tiller is the way to go? But we're mainly talking about CRUISING, and for that the stability of a wheel (ie you can easily lock it and go fwd) is the way to go. Did you know that MOST of the time I'm not even AT the wheel? Some of my guests were horrified to see the wheel untended, but I told them the boat actually sails FASTER if there's nobody sawing away at the wheel. When cruising single-handed, I'm probably at the wheel less than 20% of the time while underway (even without AP). That's a LOT easier to do with a wheel. Check out solo round-the-world cruises: you won't find many using a tiller.

And as YOU said, we're obviously talking about two different things...

druid

Jackdaw · Jan 17, 2016

druid said:
Jack, did you read the part where I said for RACING, a tiller is the way to go? But we're mainly talking about CRUISING, and for that the stability of a wheel (ie you can easily lock it and go fwd) is the way to go. Did you know that MOST of the time I'm not even AT the wheel? Some of my guests were horrified to see the wheel untended, but I told them the boat actually sails FASTER if there's nobody sawing away at the wheel. When cruising single-handed, I'm probably at the wheel less than 20% of the time while underway (even without AP). That's a LOT easier to do with a wheel. Check out solo round-the-world cruises: you won't find many using a tiller.

And as YOU said, we're obviously talking about two different things...

druid

We come full circle! ;^)

I agree that the difference between wheel and tiller on a cruising boat is much more a matter of taste. This is because while that performance difference is still there, it simply often matters less to the cruising owner. And a lot of it also depends on the design of the boat. After years (60s and 70s) of wheels on 30-50 foot cruisers, tillers came back into favor only after the introduction of the balanced spade rudder. On bigger boats with skegs or with full keels, the totally unbalanced rudder required either a HUGE tiller or a wheel to manage. That also why you seem them on cruisers today, because those underwater appendages are still popular. Fashion also plays, in particular in North America, which is why you see wheels as a ridiculous option on boats like the Catalina 250 and the Hunter 26. In Europe a much larger percentage of boat of all sizes have tillers.

Regarding ease, on boats with below-deck APs, leaving the helm is exactly the same. Press a button on the panel or the remote, and the AP holds course. Nothing to lock, attach or adjust, so nothing easier about the wheel there. And below-deck APs are much more rugged.

And yes most cruising boats sailing have wheels, but a lot of that is fashion and the simple availability of boats with wheels. Me, when I retire I've got my eye on this 50 foot cruiser.

JohnVTX · Jan 17, 2016

For those of us that remeber cars without power steering....I contend that is the difference in a tiller vs wheel. With a tiller you get feedback in your hands, thus the racers liking the tiller. You get little or no feedback with a wheel. But there is no way a tiller is easier to control while single handing a boat, provided the boat is large enough to have ample room for a wheel.

Skipper · Jan 17, 2016

Re tiller vs wheel:
I've had 2 tiller sailboats. Have a wheel pedestal now.
While I love her most of all, the wheel is one thing I would ditch, given magical powers of perfect modification and no expense.
Tiller puts the essence of the boat and ocean into your fingertips. It also makes for an outstanding increase in cockpit room and maneuverability.
The advantages of a pedestal are outweighed.
Another note on the 250:
Unlike the huge majority of sailboats in this size and larger, there are no side decks. Makes for a giant cabin inside, but means all midships and forward work requires climbing over the house. It never bothered me, but something to analyze. There are stanchions and lifelines up there so can be workable.

markwbird · Jan 17, 2016

Do the string thing? Wheel brake? I rest my case.

Jackdaw · Jan 18, 2016

catalanc said:
After reading all this over, looks like a casual, lake sailing "cruiser" (not racer), a wheel vs. a tiller is a matter of preference and learning. I have single-handed power boats from 18-32' and am not so concerned with docking, but really need to learn how to handle the sails, etc. Second thing is that while the Catalina 250 is really nice for "hanging around on", may not be the best boat for single handing, regardless of wheel vs. tiller. All that said, I suppose you get what you like and learn how to use it!
Thanks for all the input,
carlos

Thats a great summary of all that noise!

markwbird · Jan 18, 2016

There is only one way to solve this. Boat handling contest. All interested parties chime in and we can pick a time and location. We will have several categories that will include racing and cruising skills such as: Tacking, jibing, sailing into the marina and windward slip, docking and sailing off the anchor. Beer and barbecue afterwards.

Scott T-Bird · Jan 18, 2016

Well, since you are shopping, and you have the foresight to know how you will be using the boat, there is no sense in purchasing a boat that doesn't particularly work for you and then trying to modify her to suit your needs. I'd agree that the tiller version of the Catalina 250 would probably be better for you. Or, find another boat that fills your needs. The pedestal on that particular model doesn't look like it works very well to me. I can say for sure that the pedestal requires more compromises on balance.
Just to let you know that I am unbiased, we have a pedestal for our 27' boat. We pretty much divide our time between single-handing (me) and sailing as a couple. I do sit in front of the wheel and steer just as if it is a tiller. In this position, the tiller would be more intuitive and comfortable. I think that a larger wheel might improve the "feel", but then it would be that much harder to get behind the wheel for tacking & jibing maneuvers, which is when behind the wheel is the better position.
This is because the genoa sheets are led back to primary winches which are back near the pedestal. The fairleads are on the rail, making this position ok. Oddly enough, I find my traveler lines (traveler is mounted on the bridge deck just aft of companionway) also easier to handle from behind the wheel, except when crew is sitting on the lines. The mainsheet is difficult to manage from behind the wheel. I think an adjustable cleating angle might help make the line manageable from a more remote location.
The funny thing is, despite having a pedestal instead of tiller, I find that utilizing sail controls is simpler when single-handing than it is with crew, because crew just tends to get in the way on our small boat with the primary winches too far back to be used easily by crew. If I was to set her up better for sailing with crew, I would be into a whole new set of modifications.
I wouldn't go so far as to say "DON'T" buy a boat with wheel pedestal, just because you single-hand. Obviously, there are numerous ways to handle the compromises and many valid opinions offered in favor of a pedestal. You should probably consider each boat you are shopping from a broader aspect, which encompasses overall condition, value, and equipment set-up. If you find a great-looking, well maintained bargain, with features galore and great sails, it would be silly to say "nope, it has a wheel, not a tiller ... I can't sail it single-handed". Obviously, if you have parameters that are that narrow, you may end up passing on some nice finds.

john amos · Jan 19, 2016

I have been sailing a 250 wb single handed for about 6yrs now. with all lines leading to the back of cockpit and coaming wenches along side the pedestal there is no problem. I also have a soft link that attaches the outboard motor to the rudder and all motor components on the pedestal which lets you steer and control the boat speed nicely for docking. the soft link will let you bring the motor out of the water when wanted where as the hard link will not. this works nicely for me and because of the swing keel I am able to keep the boat on a hoist out of the water along side the dock where it is nice and secure when not in use. it is true that the wheel and pedestal do take up room in the cockpit but for myself I don't consider that a problem. also, the wheel will lock and sailing with a balanced helm or making any sail adjustments, etc. without having to have a hand on the wheel is a plus as far as I am concerned. I hope this will help with you're decision.

bawlmer · Jan 20, 2016

I have had both wheel and tiller control boats. I single hand most of the time. Tiller is far easier if you have a way to "tame"it. You feel captive behind the wheel and wind up in front of the wheel steering backwards most of the time. Wheel is much more fun when you have a crowd with you.

Single Handing a Catalina 250

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