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SHOULD I sail this season?

Jan 19, 2010
8,275
Hunter 26 Charleston
I guess what I was trying to convey with the family stuff was I’m likely reasonably “typical” of a lot of the forum participants in that many of us have more “important” concerns at hand than going sailing.

Let me try to phrase it differently; if I‘m unwittingly Covid positive, I engage in a “non-life sustaining” - ie “essential” activity and I somehow cause someone else to suffer and/or die who wouldn’t have otherwise “should” I do that activity just because I can?
Of course not but..... I'm driving from my house to the marina without seeing anyone else.
 
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JRT

.
Feb 14, 2017
1,806
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
@Jim26m I can understand your situation but it is pretty clear,

"1. Effective Saturday, April 4, 2020, at 5:00 P.M., every person is ordered to stay at his or her place of residence except as necessary to perform any of the following “essential activities”

"f. To engage in outdoor activity. A person may leave his or her place of residence to participate in outdoor activity that involves fewer than 10 people so long as the person maintains a consistent six-foot distance from other persons."

The section 2 defines:

"2. For the purposes of this Order, “essential businesses and operations” means and includes:"

Then you have this that defines boat supply and repair store as essential:

"f. Essential retailers, defined as all supermarkets, food and beverage stores, including liquor stores and warehouse clubs, food providers, convenience stores, office-supply stores, bookstores, computer stores, pharmacies, health care supply stores, hardware stores, home improvement stores, building materials stores, stores that sell electrical, plumbing, and heating materials, gun stores, gas stations; auto, farm equipment, bicycle, motorcycle, and boat supply and repair stores, and businesses that ship or deliver groceries, food, and goods directly to residences;"

If everything is legal on your vehicles and you aren't breaking and laws then there is no reason a police officer can pull you over.
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,342
Hunter 216 Kingston
I mention first responders and as the parent of one perhaps I’m being somewhat overzealous.

I never leave shore without a plan and thankfully have never found myself in a situation I couldn’t deal with myself. Having said that I’m also realistic enough to believe that streak may not continue. ;)

There is a LOT of new “restrictions” out there so it is possible that the first responders forces that patrol the waters where I sail (RCMP, Coast Guard, OPP, Fish and Game and local police“ might be inclined to give me the ”once over” even if I’m not in a 911 situation. ”Should” I add to their burden?
 
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Sep 22, 2018
1,342
Hunter 216 Kingston
It is a simple concept for me...

YES.

Might be a couple of months but I will be on the water.
I’m hoping this will be the answer for me as well......Be patient, wait it out, at some point it will feel OK.
 
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Jim26m

.
Apr 3, 2019
504
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
@Jim26m I can understand your situation but it is pretty clear,

"1. Effective Saturday, April 4, 2020, at 5:00 P.M., every person is ordered to stay at his or her place of residence except as necessary to perform any of the following “essential activities”

"f. To engage in outdoor activity. A person may leave his or her place of residence to participate in outdoor activity that involves fewer than 10 people so long as the person maintains a consistent six-foot distance from other persons."

If everything is legal on your vehicles and you aren't breaking and laws then there is no reason a police officer can pull you over.
@JRT - if you're comfortable with your situation, I'm not trying to talk you out of it. Just saying I'm not comfortable with it, so I'm going to do projects and hang around the neighborhood. But, I hope you'll share a bit of fun with me here.

Spent a lot of time working around lawyers. This language is anything but clear.

If I choose to go sailing outside with less than 10 people, it appears I have to maintain the 6 ft separation. Ever been in the cockpit of a 26m with more than one other person? Not possible. I guess I could go single-handed and leave the wife and kid home. But, the wife was brought up in the country where they walk out on the porch and shoot something for breakfast... Gotta be careful about having fun without her.

I'm sure no one has ever been pulled over for "no reason" by a police officer. In fact, the police officer always has a reason for pulling you over. You just might not be able to figure out what the reason is... I'm not going to test them while they're stressed. Personal choice.
 
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Sep 22, 2018
1,342
Hunter 216 Kingston
@JRT - if you're comfortable with your situation, I'm not trying to talk you out of it. Just saying I'm not comfortable with it, so I'm going to do projects and hang around the neighborhood. But, I hope you'll share a bit of fun with me here.

Spent a lot of time working around lawyers. This language is anything but clear.

If I choose to go sailing outside with less than 10 people, it appears I have to maintain the 6 ft separation. Ever been in the cockpit of a 26m with more than one other person? Not possible. I guess I could go single-handed and leave the wife and kid home. But, the wife was brought up in the country where they walk out on the porch and shoot something for breakfast... Gotta be careful about having fun without her.

I'm sure no one has ever been pulled over for "no reason" by a police officer. In fact, the police officer always has a reason for pulling you over. You just might not be able to figure out what the reason is... I'm not going to test them while they're stressed. Personal choice.
Thanks for the chuckle! Pretty witty for an engineer! :)

I agree that the language in most of the directives is pretty loose, and I would love to have the person who invented the theory explain how groups of 10 are safe! Where did that number come from, how can any more than 1 be safe? :banghead:

The ”authorities” are scrambling trying to put structure around the “stay away from others so you can’t make them or yourself sick” message. Some do it in a manner that adds to the stress.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
12,375
CAL 35 Cruiser Portland OR, moored EVERETT WA
the moral dilemma.
This reminds me of the philosophy exercises in College.

Let me pose the question from a different place.

You have earned an income that allows you to buy a 3 bedroom house where you can shelter your family. But in Somalia Families live in a single room house and eat only one meal. Is it morally right for you to spend your money on the 3 bedroom house and the food for your family? If you moved your family into a single room house and ate only 2 meals a day you could send the money you save and feed 2 meal to 6 families in Somalia. What if the city leadership decided you are required to give up your 3 bedroom home and live in a single room provided by the City so you can send the money to... them and they will send some of it to Somalia? Is that morally better?

This experience we are sharing enhances the sense that our lives are entwined with the individuals around us. Such events get us to look at our situations differently. Perhaps we should have been looking at them differently all along. Only now there is this out of our control condition. We are being told we must be concerned. Concerned for our own health and the health of “First Responders”.

Did we care about “first responders” 30 days ago? If not why not?

These are deep questions, we ask.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,299
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
As I find myself endeavouring to both digest and then implement in a reasoned way the constantly evolving stream of advice/mandates coming my way with regard to the worldwide phenomena of Covid I find that I’m often conflicted over whether I SHOULD sail this season.

There are a LOT of threads on the forum about how people are dealing with the mechanics of getting their boat in the water, access to the marinas, where they can voyage to without getting turned away etc. but none that I’m aware of have tackled the question of SHOULD I sail just because I can.

Curious about how others are dealing with the moral dilemma.
I've put sailing 2020, on the back burner. The global death and devastation is really only beginning to unfold so we have little to go on as to the time line to safely work on boats. Even though I could work on mine with no danger to others (it's a walkable (distance-exercise is essential activity).

But I couldn't use the boat without adding transmission danger to my community. Priority now is staying in touch with immediate family, already touched by the virus.

So I'll wait.

Putting the suffering of the distant (to this locale) but surrounding pandemic aside, I feel something I've rarely felt in my life. Time, more of it. There is no more time than usual, yet it suddenly feels as if I've stepped off the merry go round.

History will pack up this pandemic and compared to others, I predict it will be substantial. Sailing 2020 - a sidebar to the pandemic - is unfolding.

I'm sure it will be different: Quieter for sure. I'm glad I have a sailing dinghy, just in case.

Sculling copy.jpg
 

Jim26m

.
Apr 3, 2019
504
Macgregor 26M Mobile AL
This reminds me of the philosophy exercises in College.

Let me pose the question from a different place.

You have earned an income that allows you to buy a 3 bedroom house where you can shelter your family. But in Somalia Families live in a single room house and eat only one meal. Is it morally right for you to spend your money on the 3 bedroom house and the food for your family? If you moved your family into a single room house and ate only 2 meals a day you could send the money you save and feed 2 meal to 6 families in Somalia. What if the city leadership decided you are required to give up your 3 bedroom home and live in a single room provided by the City so you can send the money to... them and they will send some of it to Somalia? Is that morally better?

This experience we are sharing enhances the sense that our lives are entwined with the individuals around us. Such events get us to look at our situations differently. Perhaps we should have been looking at them differently all along. Only now there is this out of our control condition. We are being told we must be concerned. Concerned for our own health and the health of “First Responders”.

Did we care about “first responders” 30 days ago? If not why not?

These are deep questions, we ask.
Engineers don't usually like thought processes that don't lead to solutions. I would rather have eaten a bag of dirt than take philosophy in college. But, it's the differences that make us all interesting.

I can get the Somalia experience within a 10 minute drive of my house. Most of the kids my youngest daughter teaches, are coming to school to get two meals a day. Learning, if there is any, is a secondary concern to most of them. Most of the parents are just glad the kids are out of the house for a few hours. One charity we support sends backpacks full of food to kids during summer. With the restrictions currently in place, a lot of folks are going to find themselves needing help just to eat; forget paying bills. This is not just some remote third world country problem.

If you don't care about first responders, you need to. (Not you @jssailem, but all of us). They are often asked to do very dangerous work, and don't really get compensated according to the risks/value.

As an engineer, the questions of "should we help feed the hungry", and "should we care about first responders" are not deep at all. It's a very simple "yes". The deep part, particularly with the hungry, is how do you help in a meaningful way. And, can you design a solution that improves the underlying conditions, rather than one that simply kicks the can down the road...

During these times, caring for/about first responders can be demonstrated simply by not becoming part of the problem. If you can donate, that's even better.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
3,827
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
California is under a “stay at home” (i.e., safer at home) order from the Governor since mid-March. During the work week I’m doing the job at home; not allowed to come to the office. When I do go out for exercise or for runs to the market, I see many other folks. Dog-walking in the neighborhood is up it seems. Driving along Ocean Blvd in Long Beach yesterday I saw many people picnicking in Ocean Park, a guy jogging on a portion of a “closed” beach, tandem (side by side) walkers in Belmont shore, a popular commercial district of east Long Beach, many boats in the urban anchorage at Island White, which I’ve written about, bicyclers, etc. Still lots of cars on the roads. In short, many folks are not at home, including myself.

So, going about some of ones “regular“ liesure activity has not totally ceased. Feeling that we as sailors are privileged b/c we have this activity that is inherently ”socially distant” is not quite the case that ONLY we have a way to leisurely enjoy the out of doors, such that in the spirit of social obligation or morality we should deny ourself responsible use of it. Near the harbor I saw kayakers, fishing boats going about, an open fuel dock, etc. I actually do not see a difference in principle of, say, a family riding bikes together on public streets—not at home—and a family sailing together. So, there is no moral issue IMHO there. I’m sure we all regret the devastation that has been wreaked upon us. I do see a moral issue with people hoarding essential foods and supplies, which is far more widespread than a few lonesome sailors.
 
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Sep 22, 2018
1,342
Hunter 216 Kingston
Such events get us to look at our situations differently
@TomY makes reference to the way time feels currently so perhaps in part that is why I’m asking myself SHOULD more now than ever before.

I don’t know that I’m looking at things differently as my early years were spent in a relatively closed community that looked out for each other but it seems that I have more time to be reflective right now.

I think I’m doing OK with physical distancing (I really dislike the term SOCIAL distancing) but in my trips out of our household “bubble” to get food and medications I have observed a wide range of attitudes towards the spirit of complying with what I believe to be the only current limiter on this contagion.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,286
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Yes!

Here is my thinking.

1. Our sailboat is our second home. So we can shelter In place on it with the same safety that we can shelter at home.
2. Similarly, our car is a safe place. We are the only users, and we will pack what we need for the two hour trip.
3. Our Sandusky Harbor Marina has implemented strong and effective measures to enforce safe social distance and cleaning while maintaining, launching, provisioning, and using our boat. (As an example, if a dock mate is too close when both use our boats, they will relocate us to another slip.)
4. We can pump out and fuel ourselves, using wipes to clean off anything we might need to touch off our boat.
5. We love anchoring out! So we can skip the restaurants that are our main reason for going ashore, and spend time in the many Lake Erie Islands anchorages we adore.

So, we look forward to getting started in May, and spending lots of time aboard the Lady Lillie.

Our family vacation on Deer Iland in the Thousand Islands in late July is a bigger concern. All of our daughters, their husbands, and the grandchildren love this place. We hope that restrictions are safely relaxed to allow us to go. But we will follow the guidance of our health leadership in deciding whether to go ahead. We are blessed with excellent, firm, informed, and consistent leadership here in Ohio. And we trust them and our personal Doc to guide us.

Fair winds and following seas wherever on life's seas we sail!
 
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Jan 11, 2014
5,606
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Should is a terrible word, although quite profitable for psychotherapists.

Should is a very conditional word with the strong implication that not doing as you should means you are a bad person, son, father, mother, sailor, parishioner, and so on.

Sometimes the consequences are fairly benign, all of us have said to ourselves or others, "I should have reefed earlier." Even that statement is judgmental, roughly translating to: "If I was a better sailor I would have reefed earlier. I didn't so I must not be that good a sailor." A far healthier way to think about reefing too late might be: "Leaving too much sail up caused the boat to heel and make the ride uncomfortable. Next time I'll reef sooner, I've learned something."

When we leave "should" out of our decision making, we'll make better decisions and feel better about them.

Hmmm, I probably shouldn't post this because it might take away business from one of my colleagues.... damn, who should I be concerned with..... ;)

Is it 5 o'clock yet? :beer:
 
Jul 27, 2011
3,827
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I think “should have done” something is a different connotation than “should do” something. Because, in the latter, it’s either “should do” or “must do.” Implies the option to act versus the lack of an option to act (i.e., in the face of consequences). You must stay at home, or you should stay at home. What else do we have?
 
Jan 11, 2014
5,606
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
When the directive is you must stay home, the statement is unambiguous, it is a command. Should stay home is ambiguous, it implies a choice with one half of the choice being desirable. If one choses to not do the desirable thing, then there is an adverse consequence, the nature of that consequence varies with the "should." Sometimes the consequence is relatively benign, "I should have gotten my hair cut before the barbershops were closed" leaves me with uncomfortably long hair, an adverse consequence but not a moral one.

Should's first sousing is may, it to implies options, although with out the emotional baggage of should. May implies options, whereas shall is a directive.
 
Jul 27, 2011
3,827
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Somewhere I've had this semantics lesson before, as I'm sure most of us have. I'm actually not seeing a new point here.:doh:
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,342
Hunter 216 Kingston
Should is a terrible word, although quite profitable for psychotherapists.

Should is a very conditional word with the strong implication that not doing as you should means you are a bad person, son, father, mother, sailor, parishioner, and so on.

Sometimes the consequences are fairly benign, all of us have said to ourselves or others, "I should have reefed earlier." Even that statement is judgmental, roughly translating to: "If I was a better sailor I would have reefed earlier. I didn't so I must not be that good a sailor." A far healthier way to think about reefing too late might be: "Leaving too much sail up caused the boat to heel and make the ride uncomfortable. Next time I'll reef sooner, I've learned something."

When we leave "should" out of our decision making, we'll make better decisions and feel better about them.

Hmmm, I probably shouldn't post this because it might take away business from one of my colleagues.... damn, who should I be concerned with..... ;)

Is it 5 o'clock yet? :beer:
I used the word SHOULD as for me it implies a requirement to make a decision so I’m not sure I agree that it’s a terrible word. I’ll have to decide if I SHOULD spend all day trying to decide ;) OR make a decision to set the clock ahead to 5 ;)