Should I be Worried

[Easy]

Looking to purchase this 1994, Hunter Passage 42. Had boat pulled and cleaned for survey yesterday. Found this smile, aft end of Keel. Not very long. Surveyor said not to worry, everything is tight but to retorque bolts. Previous owner removed nuts recently to replace rusted keel washers in bilge. Like to know what any of you experienced Hunters think. And if anyone knows torque specs? Thank you in advance.

 

[sail sfbay]

Welcome to the forum!!

Suggest getting repair quotes from the haulout boatyard and other qualified contractors while it is out of the water. Then request a repair allowance from the Seller, if you are still interested in the boat. The forum can provide keel torque specs, which are published on the internet, but the boatyard should know. Please keep the forum updated.

 

[Phil Herring]

Speaking of the internet, these are on the world wide web courtesy of Marlow-Hunter.

 

[Easy]

Thank you very much.

 

[MitchM]

hmm, an aft crack... when the aft bolts can no longer keep keel in proper position due to corrosion, that can happen. what's the length of those aft keel bolts ? could there be water intrusion into the keel at the crack, which is affecting integrity of the aft keel bolts ? development of the crack aft could be because the aft bolts have lost their ability to hold the keel to the hull in proper position. if so ---get a quote to repair and/or replace ALL those aft keel boat, s and subtract cost of this worst- case analysis from the offer. (and note most surveyors have a 'hold ahrmless ' clause --meaning, if i'm wrong you can't sue me..)

 

[Rjm st.petersburg]

Run Forrest, Run!! There are too many other boats out there without keel separation or delamination issues.
Be patient, and keep looking.

 

[smokey73]

Speaking of the internet, these are on the world wide web courtesy of Marlow-Hunter.

View attachment 195099

Surprised to see only 3 keel bolts for the Hunter 40.5 (I was aware of that on my boat) but surprised to see 7 or more on all the others? Any insights on keel hull separation on the 40.5. I've never had a problem with that but next time I'm hauled for bottom paint I'll have the yard retorque the bolts. Probably should have had that done before.

 

[Rjm st.petersburg]

I have a 2005 41DS. Hauled it out this past February, did the bottom, and checked the keel bolts then. I made sure to cover them in white lithium grease. Haven't had any problems.
While searching for a boat I did come across a 45 Passage with a bent wing. It had a great price, beautiful boat, but I still walked away.

 

[shemandr]

It looks like a crack in the fairing at the keel/keel stub junction. These are pretty common. I think because the boat bends and the keel doesn't. There should be some flexible sealant under the fairing that has kept its seal. If you owned the boat, you could grind away fairing and maybe discover if the sealant is in tact. Or lift the boat off the keel and re do the whole thing. But as a buyer it's different. First you could ask the surveyor what his recommendation for repair/re seal is. Or get the seller to have the yard grind down and re seal it as a contingent of sale. The problem with holding money back is that you would have to ask for the whole re do, in case that is what's necessary. You won't have the support of the surveyor's report and the seller would probably move on to another buyer.

 

[sail sfbay]

Easy...............same issue on these 1994 Hunter Passage 42's with repair discussions:

(1) Looking at 94 Passage 42 with small crack at keel/hull joint | Sailboat Owners Forums
(1) Passage 42 keel joint crack | Sailboat Owners Forums

Attached is a keel torque guide.

 

[Easy]

Easy...............same issue on these 1994 Hunter Passage 42's with repair discussions:

(1) Looking at 94 Passage 42 with small crack at keel/hull joint | Sailboat Owners Forums
(1) Passage 42 keel joint crack | Sailboat Owners Forums

Attached is a keel torque guide.

Wow, thanks for the links! The Surveyor even used the term "Smile". I will search forums next time before wasting folks time. Answers were already there. Looks like I'm about to become the proud owner of a Hunter smile.
I will contribute to the forums when we can. Next project, sewn together flexable Solar panels, replacing Canvas.

 

[Easy]

Would also like to add. While boat was in the straps, dried quickly being warm windy San Fracisco day. Used my hands to wipe away and dry area. To see if any water would seep from the Smile. None did, I feel if there were depth to the crack/smile. Depth would of revealed intself with latent weeping.
Thanks again.

 

[sail sfbay]

What marina are you in the San Francisco Bay?

 

[smokey73]

Wow,
Big difference in the pdf torque table value above for a 1" bolt above from @sail sfbay and the Hunter provided numbers from @Phil Herring
From the pdf file table 1"- 165.2 ft/lbs torque
Frome th Hunter table 1" - 325 ft/lbs torque
The Hunter value is twice as much torque - seems like a big difference in specs
Anybody have an explanation for the difference?
I don't know which number to put my faith in for retorquing

 

[sail sfbay]

.....Anybody have an explanation for the difference?I don't know which number to put my faith in for retorquing

smokey73.....this question comes up all the time. Check with your boat yard on what they recommend.

 

[shemandr]

While we're at it there is a technique to tightening keel bolts. Or at least it's from my former profession and I think applies. The technique is to tighten to the specificied torque. Then wait. It's based on the theory that the threads will stretch a bit on the first torque. Then you should re-tighten the nuts to the specified torque again. How long to wait is an open question. But I would say about 5 minutes. Advisory: My example is for SS/Titanium screws. Others may differ but the concept is that you need to make up for the stretch.

 

[Easy]

Wow,
Big difference in the pdf torque table value above for a 1" bolt above from @sail sfbay and the Hunter provided numbers from @Phil Herring
From the pdf file table 1"- 165.2 ft/lbs torque
Frome th Hunter table 1" - 325 ft/lbs torque
The Hunter value is twice as much torque - seems like a big difference in specs
Anybody have an explanation for the difference?
I don't know which number to put my faith in for retorquing

Hunter knows the specific material they selected for there bolts. There are many types, grades Stainless, even different types of 316. Only they know what there bolts are made of and how much torque, to get the results there enginears designed for.

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Easy, similar situation here. It appears from your original pictures that the keel stub joint has been compromised, likely from some sort of a hit. Sea water is seeping in, thus the water coming out while on the hard. Understanding how Hunter constructed these boats, it is unlikely that crack resulted from normal operation.

The correct way to fix it is to lift the boat off the keel, clean and fair the joint, re-bed with 3M-5200. Also, have the yard doing the repair add washers to the keel studs in order to raise the keel nuts up into fresher threads just in case the hit damaged the original stud threads. That is how we had our keel stub joint repaired in 2004.

After the boat was placed back on the keel and studs torqued, the joint was sealed with two coats of barrier paint, followed by two coats of hard bottom paint, then two coats of ablative. The joint remains solid to this day after sailing thousands of miles all over PNW waters.

We used to keep our boat at the Everett Marina, but found Shelter Bay more accommodating and much closer to the islands.