Should boats have black boxes?

[Brian D]

In light of the many boating accidents that resulted in misrepresentation of fault and loss of life, should it be required that all boats carry a simple version of the black box?

Simple in the sense that it only records gps data of Lat/Long, speed, and heading, and condition of navigational lighting (on, off, working, not working). Don't think anything else is required as these functions would give investigators ample info as to who did what. An hour's worth of data showing what the pilot was doing.

Thoughts and opinions?

 

[Roger Long]

Good Qawd!

Most new cars now have black boxes. They are increasingly being subpoenaed after traffic accidents. People who weren't at fault are having the fault reversed on to them because they were 5 mph over the speed limit (along with everyone else on the road). There are people serving jail time because the black box showed them commiting a misdemeanor (speeding) in connection with a death even though the speed may have not been directly casual. Is this what you would bring to boating?

 

[Maine Sail]

No!

Simple answer..... NO! There are far too many variables including lights, nav equipment (radar) VHF, horn and other nav devices that could not easily be managed into 30 year old boats. Plus who wants big brother watching your every move.

The next step in this line of thinking will be a black box that monitors your toilet flushes so they can add a sh&t tax..

 

[Scott B]

I'll let this one stand for now Brian, but if it gets political and off-boating, I'll have to move it to Sails Call......

 

[sailingdog]

I'd say yes, for power boats. It is far more important to know what a power boat was doing at the time of an accident than it is for a sailboat due to the speeds involved.

If you're going 7 knots and hit something, it isn't likely to get damaged as badly as if you're going 40 knots. Excessive speed is often a causal factor in many boating accidents, and if the powerboats had black boxes in them, it would be much harder for them to argue they weren't going fast at the time of the accident.

I'd also point out that supporting a black box, which needs a fairly steady electrical supply, is generally far simpler to do on a power boat than it is on most small sailboats.

Yeah, this probably wouldn't fly as it discriminates between powerboaters and sailors, but let's face it, most sailboats aren't a major threat on the waterways... One compromise might be to install it on powerboats capable of going a certain minimum speed.... and on larger sailboats... since a 50' sailboat going 7 knots is more than capable of doing some damage.

 

[Bob V]

A more simple solution which is coming soon

is the little chip that is implanted behind everyone's ear and is monitored by gov't sattelites. If they know where each person is at every moment in time, speed and direction of movement can be calculated easily.

As an added benefit advances in technology may allow monitoring thoughts as well.

 

[Jim2798]

The day the black box arrives its the day I quit sailing (after 35 years)!

 

[Roger Long]

The day the black box arrives its the day I quit sailing (after 35 years)!

Actually it's already here if you have a GPS and tracks turned on. I sail with tracks because it's so much fun to be able to look back later and see my exact route (Hmmm, I don't remember that rock).

You can import the tracks into Google Earth

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/GEfiles/Strider08Cruise.kml

 

[sailaway78]

Dont even want to think

I don't even want to go here. Don't want to think of such a thing. NO NO NO

 

[Rob Hessenius]

They are here already if you have a GPS. If you are in an accident your GPS will be entered in as evidence. You might think that you erased the track, wrong!!

 

[Brian D]

Well, some good discussion, save Bob V who is trying to send this to the War Room. Ain't gonna happen.

First, I don't think this is intrusive at all. To point out the "5 mph over the speed limit". I believe the legality behind that is lame. Most law enforcement officers will not ticket below 7 mph over the post speed. And then one has to be in an endangering situation. But it is a good point.

One the waterway, there is no speed limit except what is safe enough for conditions. So I don't think that would fly. But like I said, good point.

Second, power would be very little. A small 2GB memory stick in a sealed container with a GPS serial data receiver for NMEA data. No charts required, just the data. Maybe 5vdc at .125 amps max? Would be a problem on a boat that has no batteries, but then the requirements would be say sailing vessels of 26' or grater and all power vessels regardless of size.

Third, connecting to switches in the cabin for navigation lites is also easy. Requires nothing more that a logic switch that senses a low voltage across it connections. Would not affect the lights or cause anymore drain that required.

My point is this. Remember the last accident where one boater was killed when a power boat launched over the stern of a sailboat. The sailboat was blamed because of some reason, I don't remember. A black box would have shown that the motor boat was approaching from astern at a high rate of speed, while the sailboat maintain its course. It would have also indicated if the sailboat was using running lights. Fact out weight conjecture and speculation.

Just my thoughts. Thanks for you comments.

 

[Benny]

Don't even suggest it!

Or Garmin, Magellan and other GPS manufacturers will be lobbying in congress to have them be made mandatory. Does instant replay make for a more exiting football game? I don't think so as it takes the referee out of play; now we don't hate them like we used to.

 

[Sandy Stone]

So...

The box records whether the running lights are switched on or not. Does it record whether a bulb is burned out?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Brian, the Clear Lake sailboat being rammed by

powerboat at night is a simple malfeasance of justice. Using that as an example is unfortunate, because it is a horrible example. The law officer who was driving the powerboat at 55 mph at NIGHT and hit the sailboat (lights on, now wind, just drifting) is being "covered" by the Lake County DA. The DA and the officer oughta be in jail. Instead, they went after the victim. Sound familiar?

This concept of big brother is very scary and I applaud those who understand that electronic snooping is not the way to make our lives safer. I also question those who support it because the spread of intrusion is extremely concerning where our civil rights are concerned.

This is NOT a war room issue because of big brother, this is intrusive electronics being brought to bear where they are unnecessary.

 

[tommays]

If they burried all the stuff against the drunken powerboat that ramed the durnken sailboat in the Dinius case what makes you think they would not break the boxes

 

[RichH]

ABSOLUTELY NO! Your proposal is a *reaction* that assumes that 'control' is the salvation of everything. Its like mandating 'bandages' and then you go out and look for 'injuries'.

Rather, think of a means of ***prevention / education*** (not the draconian kinds that only adds to 'revenue income' for governments). Its up to ALL boaters, boat manufacturers, marine industry, etc. to do the legwork of prevention and education ..... OR ultimately we risk the inevitable punitive/adversarial reaction of insurance companies, greedy shysters and ineffective 'gummint'.

Think about 'freedom' and 'responsibility' - how do WE promote and keep them?

 

[dancing bear]

I have a handheld VHF to call for help, and a GPS to tell the man where I need it. That's plenty box for me.

 

[Brian D]

Rich, this is not a proposal. It is a question and that is what we do in this forum; ask questions. You had me on "no".

 

[bobH40]

No - thats when its time to quit... that or ONSTAR

No - thats when its time to quit... that or ONSTAR

Rich, this is not a proposal. It is a question and that is what we do in this forum; ask questions. You had me on "no".

 

[RichH]

If these were 'technical', hardware or equipment failures, then of course a black box would be 'just-the-thing' to prevent future incidents. But ... most of these unfortunately are the result of 'judgement' and thats why a black box usage will not be applicable. A bad judgement that results in a judgement usually only benefits one side of an adversarial aargument/issue.
Please dont take any offense, as what you presented is a very serious problem that does need some attention. I think we can all agree on that.
best regards