I have some lateral play in my rudder. Does the shim repair technique require a complete rudder removal?
Shimming rudder shaft
- Thread starter Project_Mayhem
- Start date
If there are two (top and lower) bearings, I don’t think you can access the lower one any other way
I totally understand what you are saying. Unfortunately I have yet to find pics or a diagram of the steering system
Catalina released a TSB that instructs people to pour graphite thickened epoxy into the rudder tube to avoid removing the rudder. You're supposed to move the rudder back and forth while it cures to keep it from fusing in place. Catalina does some strange stuff sometimes
I've heard of that technique but don't know anyone who has tried it. The risks are obvious. The version I've heard is to wrap the rudder post in plastic which the epoxy won't stick to. Of course that would involve removing the rudder anyway. I didn't know Catalina had a TSB regarding it.
I would be concerned with the galvanic issues of graphite in contact with aluminum or stainless in seawater. Unless this is a fiberglass rudder shaft.
I shimmed our daggerboard trunks with epoxy loaded with graphite powder and it works well. However, it does stick while curing. I wrapped the boards with mold release tape, then waxed over that, and I still needed a bottle jack to break the bond after cure.
I wouldn't rely on an untreated shaft to not get permanently glued. If you rely on moving the shaft around, you will be there for many hours doing that. but the biggest problem is the issue you are attempting to fix is the rudder shaft moving around in the bearing. You won't fix this by moving the rudder shaft while epoxy is curing because you will distribute the epoxy unevenly around the shaft.
Mark
I shimmed our daggerboard trunks with epoxy loaded with graphite powder and it works well. However, it does stick while curing. I wrapped the boards with mold release tape, then waxed over that, and I still needed a bottle jack to break the bond after cure.
I wouldn't rely on an untreated shaft to not get permanently glued. If you rely on moving the shaft around, you will be there for many hours doing that. but the biggest problem is the issue you are attempting to fix is the rudder shaft moving around in the bearing. You won't fix this by moving the rudder shaft while epoxy is curing because you will distribute the epoxy unevenly around the shaft.
Mark
My 88 had brass shims when I got it 28-years ago but over the years, the rudder still developed lateral play due to the shim wearing.
The C30 does not really have bearings as we typically think of them. The rudder is supported by the fiberglass rudder log which is glassed into the hull. There is no replaceable bearing, so the repair needs to be to reduce the gap between the fiberglass log and the stainless-steel shaft. In my case, I opted to use the graphite / epoxy repair which has resulted in a tight, slope free fit. This is the best photo that I have of the repair. I found that there was a void between the hull liner and the rudder log. I filled that gap with slightly thickened epoxy before drilling and injecting the epoxy graphite. I could not get the kit from CD because they were out of stock, so I made my own from a couple of packets of West System epoxy, colloidal silica and graphite powder for lubing the wheels of Pinewood Derby cars.
The C30 does not really have bearings as we typically think of them. The rudder is supported by the fiberglass rudder log which is glassed into the hull. There is no replaceable bearing, so the repair needs to be to reduce the gap between the fiberglass log and the stainless-steel shaft. In my case, I opted to use the graphite / epoxy repair which has resulted in a tight, slope free fit. This is the best photo that I have of the repair. I found that there was a void between the hull liner and the rudder log. I filled that gap with slightly thickened epoxy before drilling and injecting the epoxy graphite. I could not get the kit from CD because they were out of stock, so I made my own from a couple of packets of West System epoxy, colloidal silica and graphite powder for lubing the wheels of Pinewood Derby cars.
The epoxy graphite repair is done from a kit that has been sold by Catalina Direct and is in the West System Epoxy repair manual. The key to preventing the shaft sticking, and more importantly, to account for any out-of-round it to rotate the shaft when the epoxy can still be indented with a thumbnail. I kept checking the leftover epoxy with my finger until it was firm, but I could still make an indentation with my thumbnail. I then turned the rudder blade from stop to stop several times. I repeated the turning of the rudder every few minutes for the next half hour until the epoxy was completely hard.
I think the Catalina repair is nuts.
On my Ericson 26-2, the rudder post/rudder tube is just as it is on my earlier Catalina 30-MK II: a stainless shaft that goes through a fiberglass tube without any special bearings on the top or bottom. Though I didn't need to shim the Catalina 30, I did do it on my Ericson 26 to reduce the play. I used stainless steel shim stock that I bought from McMaster-Carr. I shimmed it on the top (.005", where the rudder post comes into the cockpit and attaches to the tiller head) and bottom (.015", where the post exits the bottom of the boat). Realize that these are the only two surfaces on which the rudder post bears, and so filling it the entire rudder tube with epoxy only creates unnecessary drag in the middle section of the tube--not to mention the fact that you can accidentally glue your rudder post so it won't turn! (I do know of just such a case.)
On my Ericson 26-2, the rudder post/rudder tube is just as it is on my earlier Catalina 30-MK II: a stainless shaft that goes through a fiberglass tube without any special bearings on the top or bottom. Though I didn't need to shim the Catalina 30, I did do it on my Ericson 26 to reduce the play. I used stainless steel shim stock that I bought from McMaster-Carr. I shimmed it on the top (.005", where the rudder post comes into the cockpit and attaches to the tiller head) and bottom (.015", where the post exits the bottom of the boat). Realize that these are the only two surfaces on which the rudder post bears, and so filling it the entire rudder tube with epoxy only creates unnecessary drag in the middle section of the tube--not to mention the fact that you can accidentally glue your rudder post so it won't turn! (I do know of just such a case.)
On my 93 C30, I did the same as @Alan Gomes. I found the idea on the C30 Ass. forum.
I had the steering cable wheel off a few years before so it was easy to take it off again.
I supported the rudder, took off the wheel, used feeler gauges to measure the gap at the top and bottom. Bought the appropriate sized shim sheets from McMaster-Car.
I cut the shim stock about 3" wide and long enough to wrap around the rudder post. I cut 1/2" deep slots about 1/4" apart to allow me to bend out a 1/2" shoulder around the shaft. That prevents the top shim from dropping down and the bottom shim from rising up.
It removed all the slop from the rudder post.
Very pleased with the results.
I had the steering cable wheel off a few years before so it was easy to take it off again.
I supported the rudder, took off the wheel, used feeler gauges to measure the gap at the top and bottom. Bought the appropriate sized shim sheets from McMaster-Car.
I cut the shim stock about 3" wide and long enough to wrap around the rudder post. I cut 1/2" deep slots about 1/4" apart to allow me to bend out a 1/2" shoulder around the shaft. That prevents the top shim from dropping down and the bottom shim from rising up.
It removed all the slop from the rudder post.
Very pleased with the results.
Very good. I'm attaching a drawing that my friend whipped up for this, just in case it isn't clear.
Here is the original drawing from Catalina Yachts from 1989. It matched my 93 MkII and my friends 95 MkIII.
@Alan Gomes
Yep, that is the one I followed. Neil sent it to me.
@Alan Gomes
Yep, that is the one I followed. Neil sent it to me.
I've found that to be a non-issue. The top shim stays in place because it's on top, so it's not going to go anywhere. (See the drawing I attached in response to Ward. The flaps keep it from sliding down.) As for the bottom one, it stays put also. There is not much gap between the top of the washer that sits atop the rudder blade--you have one of this on you C30 also--and the underside of the hull. I did use a dab of silicone to hold it in place so the bottom one didn't fall out while I re-inserted the rudder from below during a haul out. But otherwise, it just stays there. I've had these in for years and give them a quick look when the boat is on the hard, but there's really nothing to do to them once you install them. I do drop the rudder to clean the crud off of the rudder post and then I re-grease it, though, at my haul outs. But the shims themselves are quite robust.