I sail mostly on Chesapeake Bay. Sailors here share the water with a number of other recreational and commercial users of the bay and it has always seemed to work. Yet, I can't help but notice that between the multitude of crab pots and pound nets, it is becoming more and more difficult to avoid these obstacles. On the bay, the crabbers used to mostly drop their pots in 10-15 of water and within a mile of the shore. For the last few seasons, I've noted crab lines as far out out 5 miles -- and where you least expect to find them. And the pound nets, which can span a 100 yard piece of water, are also sprouting like weeds all over the bay. While I used to like to sail at night once in a while, having nearly gotten entrapped by a poorly lit pound net a few years ago has put an end to that type of sailing for me. These nets, plus the nearly invisible crab pot floats, represent a real hazard to navigation in my mind. On a few occasions, I've hailed other nearby boats that they were heading for a pound net as they certainly couldn't see it and I knew it was there. I've always liked the idea of sharing the water with other rec and commercial users, but many of these users have staked out a growing piece of water as their own and that seems unfair. I know they need to make a living and I'm a recreational sailor, but it still seems that all of the bay ought to be available for all users. I'm not sure just what the answer here is, but I'd like to hear from others as to what they have experienced in this regard and how these issues may have been resolved.
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Commercials
Here in La. the commercials believe athey own the water. All of it. Virtually no one boats on Lake Ponchatrain at night, because of all the crab pots. It is a large and pretty lake, and a shame that it isn't safe to boat at night for this reason. These guys, at least in La. have no problem at all with running a string of crab traps across a channel. Since the entire lake is shallow, there is no area where the traps are not present. Everyone is aware but no one wants to take these guys on.
Here in La. the commercials believe athey own the water. All of it. Virtually no one boats on Lake Ponchatrain at night, because of all the crab pots. It is a large and pretty lake, and a shame that it isn't safe to boat at night for this reason. These guys, at least in La. have no problem at all with running a string of crab traps across a channel. Since the entire lake is shallow, there is no area where the traps are not present. Everyone is aware but no one wants to take these guys on.
Had that problem a few years ago
Down in the Charleston about 3 years ago, the commercial crab pots were EVERYWHERE down here. You couldn't really have fun in your boat because you had to be so mindful of the crabpots everywhere. Our blue crab population was pretty much wiped out (legal edible sizes, at least). After that one year, they moved on, sounds like to Chesapeake Bay...This is the first year that legal sized crabs can be found down here. I've noticed a few more pots out this year over last. Just hope they don't hit us like they did before.
Down in the Charleston about 3 years ago, the commercial crab pots were EVERYWHERE down here. You couldn't really have fun in your boat because you had to be so mindful of the crabpots everywhere. Our blue crab population was pretty much wiped out (legal edible sizes, at least). After that one year, they moved on, sounds like to Chesapeake Bay...This is the first year that legal sized crabs can be found down here. I've noticed a few more pots out this year over last. Just hope they don't hit us like they did before.
Pound nets and fish traps ....
MUST be lighted with a flashing light .... by the 'regs'. It is absolutely HELL to get tangled in an unlighted fish trap on a stormy night ... especially in one that isnt lighted. The state and federal 'regs' are they MUST be 'lighted' .... call the CG or marine police when you see one that isnt. Traps that are 'far out' in the (Chesapeake) bay are now VERY common on the western shore (necks) of VA, especially near the Mobjack Bay & York River .... and you now see more and more up in the Potomac area. In the northern Ches such traps are appearing all over the place for 'catfishing'. I now carry a 'machete' to cut loose when I get trapped in an unlighted net .... sorry, but if you dont have a damn light on your trap and I get innocently trapped in your unlighted trap - its not MY fault because you dont follow the 'rules'. I 'try' to stay away from those known areas where the traps are now common but I have no compunction to cut away an unlighted trap that I run into in areas that never had such traps. Sorry, but tough S&!T. Yup, the crab pots/buoys that you see in early summer on the Ches. are usually 'eel pots' and they can be 'all over the bay' and in just about ANY depth possible depending on where the eels/elvers are 'runnin'. At least with crab pots, they are usually in less than 20ft. of water depth. All this is only 'passing' as the 'commercial' fishermen usually soon deplete any 'stock' they come upon - terrapins, rockfish/stripers, oysters, clams, crabs, eels .... etc. Just be patient ... or until the Ches. becomes the 'dead sea'. ;-)
MUST be lighted with a flashing light .... by the 'regs'. It is absolutely HELL to get tangled in an unlighted fish trap on a stormy night ... especially in one that isnt lighted. The state and federal 'regs' are they MUST be 'lighted' .... call the CG or marine police when you see one that isnt. Traps that are 'far out' in the (Chesapeake) bay are now VERY common on the western shore (necks) of VA, especially near the Mobjack Bay & York River .... and you now see more and more up in the Potomac area. In the northern Ches such traps are appearing all over the place for 'catfishing'. I now carry a 'machete' to cut loose when I get trapped in an unlighted net .... sorry, but if you dont have a damn light on your trap and I get innocently trapped in your unlighted trap - its not MY fault because you dont follow the 'rules'. I 'try' to stay away from those known areas where the traps are now common but I have no compunction to cut away an unlighted trap that I run into in areas that never had such traps. Sorry, but tough S&!T. Yup, the crab pots/buoys that you see in early summer on the Ches. are usually 'eel pots' and they can be 'all over the bay' and in just about ANY depth possible depending on where the eels/elvers are 'runnin'. At least with crab pots, they are usually in less than 20ft. of water depth. All this is only 'passing' as the 'commercial' fishermen usually soon deplete any 'stock' they come upon - terrapins, rockfish/stripers, oysters, clams, crabs, eels .... etc. Just be patient ... or until the Ches. becomes the 'dead sea'. ;-)
RichH, you hit it on the head
We won't have to worry in a few years, the Chesapeake is becoming a dead sea. we have dead fish everywhere up here on the Potomac - low oxygen they say. Warren I feel your pain, we just completed a five day cruise to Cambridge,MD and I just about had to throw Joan down below. CRABPOT! CRABPOT! FISHNET! TURN RIGHT - YOUR TO CLOSE - TURN LEFT. And they are getting further and further out from shore. I haven't seen a light yet on any of the fishnets. When I find one that I consider to close to travel lanes - I mark it on the GPS. I've not caught one yet, but it is a matter of time. BTW, when we were in Cambridge I got to talk to a crabber, asked how it was going. His reply was terrible, been out since 6:00am and only had two bushels to show for it. Jim S/V Java
We won't have to worry in a few years, the Chesapeake is becoming a dead sea. we have dead fish everywhere up here on the Potomac - low oxygen they say. Warren I feel your pain, we just completed a five day cruise to Cambridge,MD and I just about had to throw Joan down below. CRABPOT! CRABPOT! FISHNET! TURN RIGHT - YOUR TO CLOSE - TURN LEFT. And they are getting further and further out from shore. I haven't seen a light yet on any of the fishnets. When I find one that I consider to close to travel lanes - I mark it on the GPS. I've not caught one yet, but it is a matter of time. BTW, when we were in Cambridge I got to talk to a crabber, asked how it was going. His reply was terrible, been out since 6:00am and only had two bushels to show for it. Jim S/V Java
It gets me
that the state wants to tax everything but commercial watermen. The sainted few who suck the life from the bay and cry because they didn't get rich this year. (at least on paper) I hate the idea of more taxes but licensing pots and nets like everything else in MD. would cut it back to where DNR could get control over the overfishing and make the Bay healthier for everyone.
that the state wants to tax everything but commercial watermen. The sainted few who suck the life from the bay and cry because they didn't get rich this year. (at least on paper) I hate the idea of more taxes but licensing pots and nets like everything else in MD. would cut it back to where DNR could get control over the overfishing and make the Bay healthier for everyone.
Ohhh Scott - you bring back happy memories.
No doubt - they are the best. We remember when we lived in Richmond going out to Boundary Bay and catching fresh Dungeness Crabs. Fresh cooked crabs, lots of homemade blueberry wine (from the bushes in our backyard, swim in the pool - ahh - life doesn't get much better. Damn - didn't sail back in those days.
No doubt - they are the best. We remember when we lived in Richmond going out to Boundary Bay and catching fresh Dungeness Crabs. Fresh cooked crabs, lots of homemade blueberry wine (from the bushes in our backyard, swim in the pool - ahh - life doesn't get much better. Damn - didn't sail back in those days.
Warren...
We're just beginning to see the pots across the mouth of the Susquehanna--weren't many out yet this past week. Did see lots off Worton Creek (RichH, how do you guys manage to sail in and out of there after dark?) and a pound net near the mouth of Fairlee Creek (don't recall seeing one there previously). Grew up on Broadwater Creek (two creeks north of Rockhold Creek)-Cape Anne. There were always a couple of pound nets between Franklin Manor and the mouth of West River, but none south towards Deale. And rarely any crab pots. Weren't many sailboats back then, just powerboats. We all knew where the obstructions were and avoided them despite the good bottom fishing over the oyster beds near them and in the Herring Bay area. Drift fishing always required a good look-out! Another good GOB article!
We're just beginning to see the pots across the mouth of the Susquehanna--weren't many out yet this past week. Did see lots off Worton Creek (RichH, how do you guys manage to sail in and out of there after dark?) and a pound net near the mouth of Fairlee Creek (don't recall seeing one there previously). Grew up on Broadwater Creek (two creeks north of Rockhold Creek)-Cape Anne. There were always a couple of pound nets between Franklin Manor and the mouth of West River, but none south towards Deale. And rarely any crab pots. Weren't many sailboats back then, just powerboats. We all knew where the obstructions were and avoided them despite the good bottom fishing over the oyster beds near them and in the Herring Bay area. Drift fishing always required a good look-out! Another good GOB article!
Easy to get in and out of Worton !!!!
I use a Russian Night scope, have a full keel and the prop has spurs in case I 'miss'. Actually the bay had many more pots in the late 80s.... back then the whole northen bay had one pot per sq. yd. Probably there were sooooo many pots in the late 80s that they were mostly on top of one another on the bottom and ONLY the ship channel was 'free' .... until the rockfish were 'restored' (and they love to eat crab larvae). Back then we'd keep our props 'real sharp'.
I use a Russian Night scope, have a full keel and the prop has spurs in case I 'miss'. Actually the bay had many more pots in the late 80s.... back then the whole northen bay had one pot per sq. yd. Probably there were sooooo many pots in the late 80s that they were mostly on top of one another on the bottom and ONLY the ship channel was 'free' .... until the rockfish were 'restored' (and they love to eat crab larvae). Back then we'd keep our props 'real sharp'.
Crab pot issues
Sick your state CCA on them. They did a number on them here in TX. They have to pull all pots out by the month of Feb. and any left out are rounded up and trashed. Mar. 1st they can go back to crabing. All pots must have biodegradable escape doors(to prevent a abandoned death trap for fish,crab,turtles),no bleach bottles,6x6x6 markers. Plus if they over crab your marsh the snails will overpopulate and eat all of your cord,marsh & sea grasses followed by erosion,blah,blah,etc...
Sick your state CCA on them. They did a number on them here in TX. They have to pull all pots out by the month of Feb. and any left out are rounded up and trashed. Mar. 1st they can go back to crabing. All pots must have biodegradable escape doors(to prevent a abandoned death trap for fish,crab,turtles),no bleach bottles,6x6x6 markers. Plus if they over crab your marsh the snails will overpopulate and eat all of your cord,marsh & sea grasses followed by erosion,blah,blah,etc...
Upper Bay Pots
Warren the wife and I were just having the same discussion this weekend after a run to Baltimore and a stop over at Worton on the return trip. Worton is well covered and there's no apparent alley betwen the lines either. They have the mouth of the Sassafras well covered too. They've left an opening on either shore but if you didn't know about it you'd get hung up in a hurry, especially at night. In the western channel, south of Pooles Island, there is also a high number of pots. Most but not all are outside the channel but you really have to watch out. It does take the relaxation away, that's for sure. I wish they would be required to keep them out of the channels as well as use a florescent marker. The white disappear in a heavy chop and the black ones the same in bad weather or in the dark. I don't expect these guys ever get rich from crabbing and the water is everyone's to use, but I do think they take advantage at times. It will sure keep you from napping at the wheel wont it? Mike
Warren the wife and I were just having the same discussion this weekend after a run to Baltimore and a stop over at Worton on the return trip. Worton is well covered and there's no apparent alley betwen the lines either. They have the mouth of the Sassafras well covered too. They've left an opening on either shore but if you didn't know about it you'd get hung up in a hurry, especially at night. In the western channel, south of Pooles Island, there is also a high number of pots. Most but not all are outside the channel but you really have to watch out. It does take the relaxation away, that's for sure. I wish they would be required to keep them out of the channels as well as use a florescent marker. The white disappear in a heavy chop and the black ones the same in bad weather or in the dark. I don't expect these guys ever get rich from crabbing and the water is everyone's to use, but I do think they take advantage at times. It will sure keep you from napping at the wheel wont it? Mike
Not in bad weather
Ross, I think that's great on a sunny day but if you used your method and had to stand on deck for several hours in the rain, pounding through 3 to 4' plus chop, you'd change your mind. Finding and dealing with pots in fair weather is a no brainer, but when things get nasty they increase the challenge. They don't stop us, but it would be nice to know you won't find them in the channels. Something that is not the case today. I believe it gets back to the prudent mariner issue and always being aware of your surroundings, which I fully endorse. Warren's point was right on and appreciated. Mike Mike
Ross, I think that's great on a sunny day but if you used your method and had to stand on deck for several hours in the rain, pounding through 3 to 4' plus chop, you'd change your mind. Finding and dealing with pots in fair weather is a no brainer, but when things get nasty they increase the challenge. They don't stop us, but it would be nice to know you won't find them in the channels. Something that is not the case today. I believe it gets back to the prudent mariner issue and always being aware of your surroundings, which I fully endorse. Warren's point was right on and appreciated. Mike Mike
Herring Bay pound nets
Warren, it’s ironic that you would raise this topic this week. Last weekend we sailed to your marina, HHS, from Annapolis, and I was surprised to see those two pound nets in Herring Bay right beside a big green can nav aid, which naturally everyone would target as a waypoint if going to Herring Bay from up North. That really perturbed me. Someone in our fleet said those pound nets showed up on their radar so they must have reflectors, and it looked like there were lights next to them. But, the thing that bothers me, like you probably, is that we depend very heavily on our charts to show us where safe navigable waters are, yet these very long low-to-the-water fixed structures (nets) are not marked on the charts because they are not permanent. IMO, the pound nets need to be much better marked using much larger navaids of some kind. Crab pots and trot lines, that’s another issue. I’ve been nervous since wrapping a trot line around our prop/strut 2 years ago, to the tune of a $1,500 repair. We stay very vigilant for any floats.
Warren, it’s ironic that you would raise this topic this week. Last weekend we sailed to your marina, HHS, from Annapolis, and I was surprised to see those two pound nets in Herring Bay right beside a big green can nav aid, which naturally everyone would target as a waypoint if going to Herring Bay from up North. That really perturbed me. Someone in our fleet said those pound nets showed up on their radar so they must have reflectors, and it looked like there were lights next to them. But, the thing that bothers me, like you probably, is that we depend very heavily on our charts to show us where safe navigable waters are, yet these very long low-to-the-water fixed structures (nets) are not marked on the charts because they are not permanent. IMO, the pound nets need to be much better marked using much larger navaids of some kind. Crab pots and trot lines, that’s another issue. I’ve been nervous since wrapping a trot line around our prop/strut 2 years ago, to the tune of a $1,500 repair. We stay very vigilant for any floats.
HHS
we were just down there a couple of weeks ago noticed the nets, we stayed cleared but we too were perturbed that they were so close to the green can.... Jim, I think I can actually hear Joan barking out those orders on your trip, I still hear that echoing in my head of her telling me to let out the outhaul and you telling me to pull in the outhaul at the same time.
we were just down there a couple of weeks ago noticed the nets, we stayed cleared but we too were perturbed that they were so close to the green can.... Jim, I think I can actually hear Joan barking out those orders on your trip, I still hear that echoing in my head of her telling me to let out the outhaul and you telling me to pull in the outhaul at the same time.
Hey Tim got one better 
Remember how we were on your boat and finally found a place for the paper towel holder????? Well, she bought one before our July 4th trip, bitchin how it took four years to get one installed. After I got it installed she proceeded to place the towels in and BROKE IT. Only took 20 seconds..... Now she is on the hunt for another one that she can't break. GOT to LOVE a PLAN that comes together........ Jim S/V Java
Remember how we were on your boat and finally found a place for the paper towel holder????? Well, she bought one before our July 4th trip, bitchin how it took four years to get one installed. After I got it installed she proceeded to place the towels in and BROKE IT. Only took 20 seconds..... Now she is on the hunt for another one that she can't break. GOT to LOVE a PLAN that comes together........ Jim S/V Java
Legal recourse
(duh--) Crab pots definitely should not be in the navigable part or marked channel of the waterway. This constitutes a hazard to navigation and is enforceable by Federal law. If your local chapter of the Feds won't take action (and I mean, constant vigilance, not a once-a-year purging as described in Texas), then the Feds are liable for damages to yachts operating within the law and fouled by illegal pots. We all know that even one of these pots can cause enough hassle to seriously endanger life. One or two good law cases filed against the Feds for negligence will solve the matter. You ask, what about the tax burden? --THIS is what taxes are supposed to be for, and we boaters all know it's more likely we pay too much for too little representation than the other way round. I also believe that those who use the land should pay to maintain the land... this includes all crabbers and other recreational/commercial fishermen. A crab potter's permit ought to be required and enforced on ALL US waters. All pots should be clearly labelled. If it were a sunken dinghy with your name on it down there, you'd better believe you'd be held liable of someone fouled it. In that vein then it's perfectly ethical to remove/disable/harvest unmarked pots in the channel without compunction. To whom will the scofflaw complain? It's about time we REQUIRED our federal government to serve ALL the people's interests, and this is a chance to start on it.
(duh--) Crab pots definitely should not be in the navigable part or marked channel of the waterway. This constitutes a hazard to navigation and is enforceable by Federal law. If your local chapter of the Feds won't take action (and I mean, constant vigilance, not a once-a-year purging as described in Texas), then the Feds are liable for damages to yachts operating within the law and fouled by illegal pots. We all know that even one of these pots can cause enough hassle to seriously endanger life. One or two good law cases filed against the Feds for negligence will solve the matter. You ask, what about the tax burden? --THIS is what taxes are supposed to be for, and we boaters all know it's more likely we pay too much for too little representation than the other way round. I also believe that those who use the land should pay to maintain the land... this includes all crabbers and other recreational/commercial fishermen. A crab potter's permit ought to be required and enforced on ALL US waters. All pots should be clearly labelled. If it were a sunken dinghy with your name on it down there, you'd better believe you'd be held liable of someone fouled it. In that vein then it's perfectly ethical to remove/disable/harvest unmarked pots in the channel without compunction. To whom will the scofflaw complain? It's about time we REQUIRED our federal government to serve ALL the people's interests, and this is a chance to start on it.
J.Cherubini II, I presume that you will be
standing at the front of the line to pony up the taxes to pay for all of this enforcement. The watermen also have to make a living and will not place their equipment in locations where there is a great risk of loss. Your profile indicates that you are well aware of the cost of making a living. I believe that you can depend on the watermen to be able to count profit and loss. I have never met a waterman that was wealthy enough to risk his equipment for a few crabs. In most cases their wives also work just to provide the family with health care insurance and a steady income.
standing at the front of the line to pony up the taxes to pay for all of this enforcement. The watermen also have to make a living and will not place their equipment in locations where there is a great risk of loss. Your profile indicates that you are well aware of the cost of making a living. I believe that you can depend on the watermen to be able to count profit and loss. I have never met a waterman that was wealthy enough to risk his equipment for a few crabs. In most cases their wives also work just to provide the family with health care insurance and a steady income.
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