Seat belts, motorcycle helmets... now PFDs?

[sailgirl]

List of priorities

It would seem that the general opinion on this topic is for the government to stay out of it, and for the users to make their own personal decisions. I certainly agree, but the question that comes to mind is, in all the problems that this country has to deal with, how in the world has this topic made it so far up the list? The products are out there; if the people choose to use them, that's great, but legislating them to do so smacks of dictatorship. Where is the push coming from? I suspect that if followed, this bread crumb trail would lead to manufacturers, insurance companies, and attorneys. Quite frankly, I would rather see all this effort going towards better, cleaner and safer waterways. The intercoastal waterway is becoming more impassable everyday and our government has chosen not to fund the program to keep that from happening. Wouldn't all the money spent enforcing mandatory PFD wearing, benefit more boaters by making the waterways that they boat on safer?

 

[Bill]

Barry--I assume you mean you've pulled out (+)

of traffic and parked safely before you make that cell phone call. ;-)

 

[Ed]

Barry, I'm no right-winger, but...

whether to wear a PFD on my boat is MY decision. Weather, sea state, and number of crew play a key role in making that decision. If I'm going out alone, the auto-inflate PFD is donned soon after the engine is started. If it's the Admiral and I, I put one on if the wind picks up to over 10 knots, or if the waves are over two feet. She usually puts one on if I do. Other adults aboard get told where the pfd's are located, and can make their own decisions. If there are kids aboard, they must wear a pfd anytime they come on deck, even when the boat is tied to the dock. That's the way we like it. I think we are acting responsibly but not in an overbearing manner.I know pfds save lives, but each adult should decide how much risk they can take and still enjoy their freedom. I know seatbelts save lives, but I don't require adults to wear them while I'm driving. I do, but I also think they should be allowed to decide for themselves what risks they can take with their own lives.The 'saving lives' argument can be taken to extremes. For example, it can be demonstrated that driving 55 MPH is safer than driving 65 MPH. From that, one can assume driving 25 MPH is safer than driving 55 MPH. Therefore, should the government reduce the maximum allowable speed limit to 25 MPH? Why not ban driving altogether? Think of all the traffic fatalities that would not occur if we were not allowed to drive!I'm exaggerating to make a point. The mear fact that we wake up each day means we are going to have to deal with life's risks. Some risks we can mitigate, while others we cannot. How each of us deals with life's risks is what makes it interesting. Not many would be interested in reading a story of how someone sat in a rocking chair all day. Change the chair to a rollercoaster, and some take more interest. Change the rollercoaster to a race car, and more will find it interesting.By all means, if you think it best, wear a PFD at all times. However, let me and others make our own decisions about our personal safety. As much as I think the government should exist to ensure our safety (food inspections, OSHA, EPA, DOD, FAA, USCG, etc.) I don't think they should be medeling in our personal freedoms that affect no one except consenting adults.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Andy]

Personal responsibility and freedom of choice.

I will refrain from slamming Kent from Mexico for saying I have poor judgment for supporting President Bush and get on to the topic at hand… I personally don't think we should have motorcycle helmet laws, yet I always ride with a helmet. I think those who don't are the ultimate fools. I believe in personal responsibility and freedom of choice. On the other hand, I don't think my taxes or insurance should pay for their long-term care after they have smashed their noggin and lie in a coma for years - there in lies the dilemma. As far as life preservers go, look at the record of deaths/drownings, the vast majority are from drunk/stupid (weekend) open power-boaters, and not from sailors. This may sound callous, but, more so than motorcycle drivers (who have a better chance for survival lying beside the road after an accident), a drunk and stupid power-boater who gets injured or falls off while not wearing a PFD usually drowns, thereby eliminating the whole tax/insurance supporting problem, and takes one less stupid person out of the gene pool – the consequence of their personal choice. If you are going to regulate PFDs - do so for open power boats; at least that decision would be supported by the statistics. The lack of enforceability is not an issue, anymore so than seatbelt laws or the requirement for me to carry a distress flag. In fact it's more enforceable than requiring me to carry the appropriate number of PFDs on board. LEP can see whether or not I am wearing one as they cruise by even from a distance. Regardless, those of us who follow the rules would suck it up and do what's legislated, all the while cursing politicians for putting even more restrictions on our personal freedom. I personally wear a PFD sometimes, and sometimes not, depending on the circumstance. Am I solo? Am I within swim distance to shore? Am I sitting in the cockpit or climbing around? Are the waves picking up? Etc. It really all comes down to personal responsibility and freedom of choice, and I would rather have those, with the associated higher taxes and insurance rates, than not have them. We don't need the government to regulate every aspect of our lives.

 

[Ben]

Only for children

PFD's should only be mandatory for children. They don't have the ability to make this sort of decision on their own, so we need to look out for them. As for adults, we need to be allowed to make our own decisions; the government need not hold my hand every time I cross the street.It could be argued that I need to accept the bad with the good. We expect the government (Coast Guard) to be there for us if we get ourselves in trouble and call for help, perhaps I shouldn't be offended when they tell me to put on a PFD. The problem with that logic is that our tax dollars did pay for the Coast Guard, so I feel as though we ought to have the ability to pick and choose what services they provide. Forcing a PFD on me is not a service that I want.For the record, I generally wear mine when I'm on the water. I certainly agree that we all should wear them, much like I never go anywhere in a car without wearing a seatbelt. I simply hate having the decision taken from me.Hopefully I haven't repeated too much of what other people have said, but I feel so strongly about this that I simply started typing without reading all the other responses.

 

[Chris]

Should be required

I am not fond of wearing PFD's untill last year when the Star I was racing on was dismasted and sunk. We had to tread water for 30 minutes before a boat could get to us. It was the middle of summer and the water temp was 67degrees. My partner and I would have been in serious trouble if we had to go another 5 minutes. Spend the money and buy an inflatable PFD, they are very comfortable and do not get in the way. We have lost too many good sailors lately to drowning.Think about it for cruising as well. If you got knocked over board could the people aboard your boat save you? Would they know what to do?

 

[Andy]

Your mistake Chris?

Chris, I'm confused. You made a mistake by not wearing a PFD in what it sounds like were very rough conditions so you think everyone should be forced to do so in ALL conditions? Doesn't make sense. I personally would have been wearing protective gear in those conditions, but I don't think that means I should be REQUIRED to.

 

[Larry Long]

I want to change my vote

I wear my seat belt.I never ride a motorcycle without a helmet.I wear a PFD in my dinghy.I wear an auto-inflatable harness when I singlehand, at night, and when other factors indicate a need for it. I voted for manditory PFDs for boats under 14 feet. I believed that would cover PWCs, dinghies and sunfish. After reading all of the responses, I realize that we are dealing with the same people who took 5 1/2 MONTHS to get the Certificate of Documentation issued on my boat. I don't believe they have the resources to do the jobs they already have. Let's not add to their burden by giving them any more responsibility. The decision to wear or not wear PFDs lies with the captain of the vessel. PERIOD.

 

[Wes]

Why not...I always did

The PDF issue is a hot topic. When I grew up in Oklahoma, and raced Windmill's, Snipe's, Force 5's ect. We always, that is always, were required to wear one by the skipper. I can not tell you the times I have ended up in the middle of the mainsail as a result of a gust of wind. I think any boat that has the possability of spending time with the main in the water, should require the wearing of a PDF. But, as they say, it is just my opinion.

 

[steve]

FATHERLESS CHILDREN AND WIDOWS *BOX

I don’t know if the government should mandate the wearing of PFD’s but I lost my own father to a boating accident 43 years ago and it changed my life. I would hate to think of other children left fatherless or woman widowed because of a lack of PFD’s. My father was not even a boater he was on a boat on a beautiful clear Sunday afternoon, enjoying the water. The operator gunned the boat and my father went over the back. In researching the incident over the years boating experts have advised me that if you hit the water and are not expecting to hit it, you will probably drown UNLESS A PFD BRINGS YOU TO THE SURFACE. This is because you are disoriented and will probably take a breath and fill your lungs with water and not know which way is up. This is how most drownings occur. It has nothing to do with the conditions.I have sailed for the last 50 years and always wear an inflatable PFD. If someone on the boat chooses not to wear one, I tell them you are on your own if you go over and I am not raising your children. This usually convinces them to wear one. So all you macho types that don’t wear PFD or only wear one when the weather is threatening think of your loved ones-

 

[Wes]

sail on the bay

BarryThere have been a lot of time that if you sailed by me on the Bay (if you are crazy enough to sail in the same wind) you will see me teatherd to the jackline also....Fair winds to you...Wes

 

[Danny Hales]

PFD's for Dummys

It's common sense when and when not to wear PFDRIGHT ! You would think so. My wife and I was setting on board our Hunter 25 in port when a small 12ft. alumnum jon boat passed by with 7 adults and one dog loaded with fishing gear and heading for a very rough bay. We could see everything they had on board. No PFD what-so-ever ! Even if they had PFD on board and not wearing them ,if something were to happen,I doubt if any at all would have had time to put them on.Even with new PFD laws, there will be boaters who will break the law and will drown.Don't learn safety by acciddent !

 

[Malcolm Young]

Who has responsibility under law?

Based on my reading - the oft quoted "the captains word is law" is in fact true - on a vessel he or she has the authority to order people to put on PFDs and with that goes the responsibility to do so when he or she decides it is necessary.From boating courses I have taken in Canada my understanding is that under law the master of the ship has the responsibility to take measures to assure safety of their passengers, crew and vessel. This would mean putting on PFDs when conditions dictate. There are some that feel that it should be up to the passengers to decide. I don't believe this is an option. I believe that in most jurisdictions the captain is held responsible. In Canada, I remember reading of a couple of incidents over the years where the captain was held legally responsible (an unrully passanger managed to fall of the boat and drown themselves and a drunk passenger fell overboard and drowned).I don't believe that PFD wearing should be legislated, however I believe it is the clear responsibility of a skipper to make an informed assessement of the current and forecast conditions, the seaworthiness of the vessel and crew and to take and order actions to ensure safety of vessel and crew. I think that if the laws are unclear in this situation that they should be made more clear and should be enforced if the skipper is negligent and publicized.It would be informative if someone could quote a source for specific laws governing the responsibilities for captains in their country.

 

[Jack Metzel]

Not another law?

So now we see there are bureaucrats in the CG who want to save the world with new law. I wonder what the penalty is for not wearing a PFD ?Why don't they simply try and educate small boat crew to the danger possibilities? Being forewarned is ----to be responsible. Why fine the dead?Strossel ought to write this one up!

 

[Rob]

Steve fatherless children

Steve my condolences reguarding your father. When I was in College in Rhode Island I was lucky enough to have a fantastic job. I worked as the sternman aboard a local lobster boat....then Life jackets were frowned on by comercial lobsterman.....The local fishermans bar where the old salts hung out would constantly remind me to watch my feet, as there were hundreds of feet of fleeing line uncoling from the deck with each trawl......needless to say one time I wasnt that lucky and my foot was caught in a coil of line going overboard....We were in about 60 feet of water and I had just thrown out our 3rd pod.....the first had yet to hit bottom....there was a lot of weight pulling on that line....I was hopping across the deck as the first mate ran towards me with his knife out and the captain had slammed the engine in reverse......Just as I was about to go over my hand was able to release the line from my foot with a squick snap.......I was very lucky!....You are right...the old salts use to tell me...its not falling into the water that gets you its the possibility of hitting the stern with your head,,,getting clipped by the prop,,,or just not knowing which way is up....today if I was working a boat I would wear an inflatable.......However the reason Im writing this is I still do not feel it is the governments job to dictate this to me.....

 

[Andy]

Fatherless Steve you're missing the point

You said: "So all you macho types that don’t wear PFD or only wear one when the weather is threatening think of your loved ones-"Most of us do, and that's why we wear them...when it's prudent. You're missing the whole point of this discussion. It's not about whether or not to wear PFDs, it's about whether or not the government needs to mandate that we wear them. Do you wear one when you are asleep in the cabin? I doubt any law would make that distinction...

 

[Tom]

comfortable in the water

I guess that some of the dispute over pfds is comfort in the water. I used to swim a mile three times a week,scuba dive,white water and sea kayak wind surf and dinghy sail. Not to mention snorkle for hours. White water kayaking I always wore a PFD but was often upside down. With the laser and windsurfer I rarely/never wore a PFD because I have ended up under the sail a few times and the easiest way to get out is to submerge and swim out from under the sail. The first time it happened I was wearing a pfd and couldn't breath under the sail. The PFD would not allow me to submerge and swim easily. There is no doubt that driving at 55mph and wearing a PFD saves some lives. But sailing is probably the safest sport/activity. It is safer than walking... Safer than being in your bath tub... How safe do you want to be????? The government would save far more lives by going back to the 55mph speed limit.

 

[Vincent]

Another Intrusion

In the state of Florida, you are required to wear your seat belt, but not to wear a motorcycle helmut. It would appear that you cannot legislate safety, because no matter the law, there will always be those that don't wear the product that is supposed to save you. A good example is seat belts, but the state makes alot on the $50 ticket if you don't wear one. The point is that this law has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with lobbyists for the companies that make the equipment. I would appreciate the government taking care of other things like the deficet and not making outlaws out of citizens that they don't think can make their own decisions in life! I personally carry life jackets for everyone on board, but don't need a government agent to tell me to do so! If you don't feel comfortable on a boat without life jackets, don't go! But make the decision yourself, not be forced by someone in Washington that probably doesn't even own a boat!

 

[Levi]

Wear it or drown?

Any law should be specific and apply to small children and also specify that adults should be held resposible for children on board to be properly wearing PFDs. Bike riders go bare-helmeted and boat owners that cant swim a stroke sit on their PFDs for comfort....these things will never change? We dont need more boat laws enacted but we do need more intelligent owners and passengers to act responsibly.

 

[Vincent]

One More Thought

For those that cruise, what the hell do you do with the thing when you get to shore in the dingy? Carry it all day? Leave it to be stolen? Just a thought.