Seat belts, motorcycle helmets... now PFDs?

[Stephen Fierro]

Does this even really matter? Seems like a hoax.

It's amazing the passions that this thread ignites. The number of deaths just seems statistically insignificant. Even if half of those deaths could have been prevented it is such a small number compared to how many boaters are in the US. It is only around 300 people. I would love to know how many people die of allergic reactions each year. More people die from the flu, but we don't mandate a flu shot for anyone that leaves the house. This all just seems ludicrous. Is this just a scare or attention grabbing post? How 'serious' are they? I've been hearing things like this for years. They make a statement, grab a few headlines, and it seems to the public like they care. What are they actually doing about this? Is the legislation going through the house, or is this just a big hoax?

 

[Jean Gosse]

Life Jackets, Pro and Con

I live in the Pacific Northwest. Water temp about 55 year round. Most of us have gone swimming in the sound and some quite deliberately and happily. However it is a shock if you are suddenly thrown into the water.From September through April we race 12' sailboats. When participating in a fleet event, everyone aboard must wear a life jacket. (PFD is a silly term!) This is a courtesy to the race committee, to ensure that he will not arrive too late to rescue everyone.In summer, in small sailboats, a life jacket is not indicated unless it is blowing hard enough to put the deck under water. The small boat sailor tends to be alert to the actions of the boat under natural conditions and when beset by wakes of crossing power boats.On larger boats, those with cabins, it would be prudent to wear one when going forward. It is a long drop to the water from most cabin boats and the helmsman can't always see crew members ahead of the cabin. If conditions indicate that anyone under 12 wear a life jacket, anyone over 12 should too. Most kids swim a lot in the summer. Adults may "know how to swim" but they haven't actually done so in years. Very small children should wear life jackets on docks and beaches too, just so there is something to grab them by.Anyone who uses a power boat, especially those who use one as a means to an end (fishermen, water skiiers or towers) should wear life jackets. (They make a fisherman model with lots of pockets). Small (under 25') powerboats can suddenly accelerate, throwing passengers off balance. They are equiped with propellers which can become viscious if met by human flesh. Hooking a fish, watching the antics of a water skier can distract from paying attention to the boat. Legislation, unfortunately won't help, it will only inconvenience the prudent.

 

[Pat]

One more right close to gone

Being a motorcyclist, I understand the arguments behind this proposal. In Vermont we must wear helmets...to protect ourself from ourself. Hmmmm Anyway, wearing PFDs should be left up to the "captain." I feel that if I die because I chose not to wear a PFD,then that's my own decision. When will the government realize that there are some adults who are willing to take responsibility for their own actions? I stopped wearing my PFD when sailing my wife's sunfish. I was coming about when the mainsheet, hanging loose on the boom, caught the collar of my PFD and dumped me in Lake Champlain. Not fun at the time. We need to be the ones to decide.

 

[James]

My own opinon

I think the jackets ought to be left up to each owns judgement. Except for the kids. I personally wear one and I swim like a fish. But than if I am hit in the head by some gear while going overboard I don't swim very well. I sail but I also kayak.

 

[Ralph McGraw]

PFD's

I am a dealer for Mustang Survival flotation equipment. I of course want people to be safe and to wear our equipment when needed. I still don't want to have a law stating that everyone should be required to wear a PFD all the time. BUT, individuals should be alert for conditions that call for this equipment to be worn. A very critical time is when a person is by themselves in a boat. BE SAFE! THINK! Visit my site if you do want to see some of the equipment available. www.windnwave.com I hope that everyone has a safe, fun season this year.

 

[Ralph McGraw]

Your right to wear pfd

After reading a few of the other comments I would like to say one thing to those who have the attitude that if they don't wear safety equipment in times they should that that is their right. Please keep in mind that sometimes you are placing others at risk because of this attitude. Others will see you in trouble and try to help. Thereby placing themselves in Harms way. THINK!! or maybe us bystanders should just stand by the wayside and watch you go to your demise because of your choices. What do you think??

 

[the Pirate of Sha-lin]

Big Brother again

As usual it comes down to the fact that 'Big Brother'- the government- is trying to legislate our lives. I'm tired of the government living in my pocket. Everywhere, all the time, there will be accidents and people who are just plain thoughtless. So, the rest of us who are careful should suffer the discomfort? If the government is so concerned for my health, let it pay my health care premiums-that would be more help. I don't need to be told when to wear a life jacket.

 

[Rodney Johnson]

Responsibility

I choose to wear a proper PFD while I am sailing, operating our 14' powerboat, while kayaking, basically anytime that I'm boating...especially if I'm solo. Do I feel that wearing a PFD should be required by law? No, for many reasons. First, we are constantly seeing more and more laws enacted that try to save us from out own stupidity, legislating common sense never works! Should all boaters wear a PFD at all times? Maybe, but should it be a law? NO!In the USA the US Coast Guard requires that ALL boats carry at least one proper sized, servicable PFD for each person on the boat, that is LAW, yet I see many boats operating without ANY PFDs aboard! In Massachusetts the Law requires that ALL persons aboard a Canoe or Kayak between September 14 and May 15 wear a PFD, many don't....last Fall (October) we lost 2 "expert" kayakers in the waters off Cape Cod (on a cold, windy, foggy day). Neither was wearing a PFD, in fact neither even had one in the boat! Immediately after this tragedy there was great outcry to change the law, and make PFD wearing by canoists and kayakers Mandatory Year-round. This would apply to ALL waters, both quiet streams and open ocean. My problem with this idea (law has not been passed yet) is that why make a stricter law....when the already in place laws were not obeyed, so, I guess more people will obey a stricter law than the present law?Boating can be dangerous, when we consent to go boating we accept the risk, and the smart ones take precautions (like at least carrying PFDs, better yet wear them!), those that don't usually still come home safely, but.....they made the choice (either by accepting risk, or out of ignorance?) to go out without proper gear.As Darwin would say, "Survival of the fittest"?Yes, I feel sorry for any family member who has lost a loved one in a boating accident, but the victim (or the operater of the boat if victim was passenger) made the choice to go out unprepared and must now accept the consequences!Tough love, but unfortunately.....that is life!In other words, I wear my PFD 99% or greater of the time, but I want that to remain MY CHOICE, not the Government's mandate!The majority of the people who will obey any law requiring wearing of PFDs will be those who already do wear them. Yes, we may save a few lives with more laws, but each law reduces our choices. Many states now have laws requiring that young bicyclists wear helmets, funny thing is that more kids are geting injured on bikes lately.....thankfully the helmets are reducing head injuries, but other injuries are increasing.....could it be that the helmets are promoting more "risk-taking" due to the added feeling of "safety" provided?'nuf said?Like Mandatory Education, we in Boating Safety need to do more to convince people to WANT to wear PFDs, to WANT to take a boating course (and a complete course, not just a 4 hour intro.). I don't know how to do this, but there must be some way!One final comment, most States require all people on Personal Watercraft (ie: Jet Ski) to wear a PFD, and amazingly enough....the greatest majority of those people do wear one! What are they (Dealers? Media?, who?) doing to see this much success?80% of those who drown were not wearing PFDs, but 90% of those were "expert" swimmers! If we wear our PFDs, and encourage others to wear theirs, maybe, just maybe, we will remove the "need" for this misguided law.

 

[tom wyckoff]

CHANGE OF PACE! LOST FREEDOMS! what do we do?

I just got off another web, another topic. Was looking for a change of pace, to relax and get some mental rest from hours of discussion,,, (kind of like going sailing to relax). Then I encounter this predicament,,, without switching this web to a political agenda, this is my responce. Americans need to think, "Why are we loosing bits and piecees of our freedom?" It's great to sail away from our troubles from time to time. But where you going when it gets really bad? Sail away to another North America and start a new life, a new country? Do you really know the true history behind America's Freedom? How meny people among the early settlers wanted to fight for freedom? How meny, what precent did fight and what precent contributed money, horses, guns, and other needed supplies for our first soldiers to fight for America's freedom. Figure that out and maybe you will get smart enough to figure out, WHY WE ARE LOSING FREEDOMS every year. Who knows! maybe it won't happen in your life time. What about your childern's life time? I hope this gets you to thinking! maybe you will think about, really doing something about it and look arround, you might find there may be some of those ten or fifteen percentile still arround. Fair sailing,hooyasailor@yahoo.com

 

[Tom S]

Rodney, Good essay. Thanks for your post

nm

 

[abe]

Tired of big brother....GO VOTE!!!!

for the politician that best serves your ideas.

 

[henkmeuzelaar]

Freedom is primarily a state of mind

Consequently, getting obsessed with it is the fastest way to lose it.Flying Dutchman

 

[Don]

a LIFE in-VEST-ment

In reading a number of responses to this weeks topic, and there seems to be two common threads. First off, the majority are emphatic about not being legislated to. The second is that this is a personal decision and should be left to the individual. With the first point I agree. With the second I don't.Simply stated. While I don't believe new laws are the answer, I do believe PFD are a "must wear" item while on the water. It's been suggested that common sense and the situation at hand should dictate, but, as I've found over the years, "common sense ain't so common".And when was the first time you saw some one called "time out" to put on their PFD just before the boom knocked them unconcious and sent them over the side. It won't matter then, that this person is the best swimmer in the world then. The point is this. Laws are usually enacted to get us to do what is right when we are too stupid to do it for ourselves. A PFD is not designed to be uncomfortable (although some of them are) they are designed to save your life. Granted you may never need it. More power to you. But ask those people not wearing a PFD, that have been fished out of the drink, and have had a near death experience, if they wear one today. I'm reasonable sure what the response will be. Some people have to learn the hard way. If you are one of those, then anything you read here won't change your mind. But do me a favor will you? Don't boat where I boat. I don't want to be risking my life or those of my family members and friends trying to save you because you were too proud, pig headed, stubborn, or stupid to realize what PDF's are all about. Wear them on your own. If not for yourself, then for the people who care about you. When the death count drops, so will the idea of a new law that won't work. It's still your decission.

 

[Dan]

Just got a self inflating for my birthday

Not because a law said I had to do that but because when I am alone on my boat, I want to take every precaution to make sure I come back. I also want my grandkids to wear the PFD's that I have onboard when ever they are out of the cabin (that is my law for my boat). I don't want someone else telling me that when I am out drifting around with my adult friends what I have to wear. I also kayak and sometimes do not wear my PFD but always have one on my boat, not because the law says I have to do that but because I know the inherent dangers if I were to capsize, which I do on a regular basis (one of the joys of pushing your skills in kayaking). I agree that if we police (in only the best use of the word) ourselves, using logical caution when it is appropriate, we will not need others to police us. It is our responsibility to encourage other boaters to use the equipment that we already are required to have on board in a way that protects us and those on our boats. That is not to say that there will not be accidents resulting in injury or death. But, we do not need legislation to do that at this time.

 

[Andy]

proud, pig headed, stubborn, or stupid?

Dan,  You said, "First off, the majority are emphatic about not being legislated to. The second is that this is a personal decision and should be left to the individual." If you take care to notice, the vast majority of people who are saying the 'second point', in the next sentance say they almost always wear one, but at least when appropriate.  I am personally amazed at the number of people missing the point of this whole debate. It's NOT about wearing PFDs. It's about the government telling us we have to wear PFDs. I occasionally don't wear a PFD, and I am not proud, pig headed, stubborn, or stupid and I resent, and probably a few others do to, you saying that. Get off your self-rightous soapbox. And Don, if you are boating next to me, and you are in trouble, regardless of whether or not you are wearing a PFD, I'll still do my best to save your life, even though it sounds like you won't do the same for me.

 

[CptnBob]

Let's Legislate our Minds Away

*boxIt is a shame we have to rely on the Government to legislate good thinking. Like any other skill, good thinking will atrophy without use. Next we will have legislation stating we should not try to water ski between a tug and its tow. Duh! Do you think a life jacket would help those "bow riders" who are thrown off the bow of a boat and run over by the props? Maybe the automatically inflatable suspenders would help the poor unfortunate caught by his boom and catapulted overboard, unconscious, but the price tag on those is pretty steep. By the way - How many of those do you REALLY believe occurred last year? Are we next going to allow the government to mandate survival suits when the water temp is below 75 degrees? How about life rafts? Are they next? There are already laws regulating required safety equipment to be maintained on board, so go to the local bar-ina and see how many weekend warriors reduce their booze purchases even one dollar to update their flares and other safety gear. Is a life jacket going to make any difference when some drunken fool plows his boat into another, or the dock, or the side of a ship? PWC operators already have a life jacket mandate, but how many of them die when they rocket their little craft into something larger, more unmovable? Like seat belts, they (the PFD) may not save lives, but they do make it easy for the rescue provider to locate the body. We already have laws regulating drunken boating, but have you seen a lot of effect? Maybe we could let the government legislate away pleasure boating altogether. Surely THAT would save lives. It's time we started making the skipper responsible for those on board, and that means CRIMINALLY responsible when his stupidity results in a death or injury of others. Boating is not one of the constitutional rights. It is a priviledge which, like other priviledges, should be earned and safeguarded. Especially from the government.

 

[Ranger Paul18580]

Give the Coasties a break...

Points are listed first. Wordy explanations of the points second. I own and sail a Hunter 216, a Geary 18 and a canoe.Points:1. I do not want a law mandating when I have to wear my PFD.2. I sympathize with the Coasties (and the Auxiliary).3. Safety gear on my boat.Wordy explanations:1. If the water is warm, the wind light, and my wife and I are just cruising our sailboat I usually shed my PFD as the chance of me going overboard is slim to none. When the water is cold or the wind brisk or I am racing and taking my boat to its limits, I wear my PFD...primarily because I am not stupid. I don't want the government telling me what to do. If there were such a PFD law and I decide to heave to and go swimming, would I have to wear my PFD while diving into the water?2. The Coasties and the Auxiliary are the ones that see the dead people that could be alive if they had worn PFDs. Fishing a dead stupid person from the water that could have been a warm, vibrant, living stupid person is heart wrenching and I can understand why they want a law to stop this. Ride or get familiar with a Coastie or Auxiliarist sometime and you will realize how often they encounter situations where PFDs are not worn when they should be. Most of us don't begin to realize how fast cold water incapacitates us. Roughly, we can survive the number of minutes that is equal to the water temp, e.g., in 50 degree water we can survive around 50 minutes. But, we become incapacitated in far less time.3. On either of my sailboats, I carry two (2) flotation cushions, each with a floating line attached with a carabiner at the end of the line, a heaving line, a boarding ladder, and a PFD for each person.If someone goes overboard, the first flotation cushion goes overboard, line and all. If it is windy, it is important to basically drop this cushion overboard rather then throw it so it doesn't get blown away. Even if the person overboard has a PFD, the first flotation cushion goes overboard. If I never recover the cushion, so be it. Note that on coming back to pick up the person the floatation cushion may really help in finding the person as it provides another visible clue as to the person's whereabouts.Upon approaching the overboard person, hopefully the boarding ladder is in place and both the flotation cushion and the heaving line are handy. The carabiner on the remaining flotation cushion should be attached to something on the boat and the line readied for throwing the cushion to the person. When close to the person, throw the cushion to them so you can drag them to the boarding ladder.The heaving line is a backup. I made my heaving line from 75' of 1/8" floating line and a foam rubber ball I got at a toy store. I drilled a hole through the ball and fed the line through the hole. The other end of the line has a carabiner so I can attach it to something on the boat.Throwing the floatation cushion and the heaving line should be practiced. In both cases, think about throwing the line itself (like with fly fishing) rather than the cushion or ball. With the heaving line, a 50-60' throw is fairly achievable.

 

[steve]

FATHERLESS STEVE AGAIN

First and foremost let me say that I am not in favor of additional legislation. I live in Texas where people still think they have some personal freedom. However the local waters appear to have more law enforcement boats than recreational boaters. It seems every other boat is Coast Guard Auxiliary, Fish and Wildlife; local municipalities patrol boats, fireboats, etc. Most of them do the job with courtesy, dedication and knowledge, some do not.I remember arguing with one about proper lighting on my sailboat. They were about to board me when the Coast Guard came along and advised them that I was legal.Also let me say that I realize this forum is not about whether to wear PFD’s but rather whether they should be legislated. But it is a forum for Sail boaters and you all have the option of not reading this because it is slightly off the subject.Boaters and especially Sail boaters are a good group and as an older member of this community I am thankful for the fellowship, laughter, friendship, bonding, support, etc. that this group has provided. As such I feel very protective to all of you out there (EVEN ANDY OF THE WORLD). If by relating my story of personal tragedy, I can convince some of you to wear PFD’s or better yet require their crew to wear and even better read books on safety or attend safety seminars or hold safety drills on your boats, I feel that my father’s death is somehow less meaningless. I remember an incident several years ago in a race where a young man went overboard on another boat. He was laughing and smiling as his crew made several attempts to pick him up. They even got a hand on him. Unfortunately they were unsuccessful and his body washed up ten days later. Without a PFD. I have seen racing skippers require all their crew members wear PFD’s regardless of conditions. On the boat I race with this is not a rule, but there is a great deal of peer pressure. I have raced on other boats in extreme conditions where no one wears a PFD (except me of course) Do any of us really want to see someone lose a loved one and think I could have prevented this by recommending, mandating or sweet talking this person into wearing a PFD. PFD’s are not a panacea for drunk, stupid, macho boaters but they are a start. PLEASE GUYS AND GALS WEAR A PFD FOR YOUR LOVED ONES.

 

[John Gajdos]

Legislating personal safety decision

First let me say that any preventable accidental death is tragic and I do not want to minimize the pain and suffering of the suvivors of the deceased. Having said that, I believe that the better approach to this and mandatory seat belt and helmet laws is education NOT legislation. The suvivors are dealing with their grief and as a result initiate "feel good" legislation aimed at "preventing this from happening to another family". Understandable sentiment, but unnecessary. As difficult as it is to accept the person who died as a result of failing to wear a PFD, seat belt or motorcycle helmet made that decision. They as are we all, are resposible for our own actions.

 

[J.P. Jones]

Man falls from Cruise ship treads water 17 hours

Geez, do you think we ought to make a law that saying all cruise line passengers wear life vest at all times.http://www.lsj.com/news/local/030419carnival_1a-7a.htmlThis guy was lucky. Its amazing how many people survive for many hours (albeit in warmer waters) after falling over board.Just reference that girl that fell off the fishing boat in the gulf and swam to the oil platform and was found days (weeks?) later.Or we could all take sea-weed and stuff it under our clothes to remain bouyant.http://www.staugustine.com/stories/072003/fis_1680634.shtmlAlso go to page 10 of next Months (June 04) "Lats and Att's" magazine. There is a story about someone falling over in New Zealand and treading water for 8 hours before he got rescued.Maybe we should just legislate jack lines and safety harness's at all times. This way you wouldn't need a PFD. I bet it would be fun on the Lido deck, but a little difficult to negotiate around the shuffle board court