Searching for the correct size electric windlass

[Noyrt]

Need some help still in choosing a correct power windlass. Any help appreciated... Here is what we have. Spencer 44 sailboat, approx 35,000 lbs displacement. 300' of 5/16" chain to a 65 lb anchor. (currently have horizontal manual windlass). Trying to choose what electric windlass to buy, and what power requirments needed to run it... Power we have: total of 6 batteries, (3 separate banks) to include.... 1 engine battery(cheap crap-wet battery), 1 generator battery (cheap crap-wet battery), and house bank of 4 AGM's (approx 400 ah). The AGM's were about 8 years old when we got the boat, work fine for the house batteries, but don't seem to charge to rated capacity. Usually only about 12.4 or 12.5 after charging.
Boat has a West Marine battery bank isolator (blue box) that combines all three banks to allow the charger or alternator to charge all banks, but only draws from selected bank. I know the basics, but hard to decide what to buy and if I can use the batteries we have or add another battery up forward and wire it to the existing bank, or separately. (we have a good place to mount the battery up front) and our current windlass is about 10' back from the bow of the boat, nearly in line with the main mast, where the chain comes down into the locker.
I'm thinking at least a 1500 watt (12v / 125A) windlass, maybe adding an 8A4D (heavy duty DEKA) battery to run it... then just add the 6 or 8 gauge wires for charging to my current isolator? Or I would have to run the heavy wires to one of the other banks to add the battery. Also this battery is 127lbs... so that is a concern also, but we really need to weight on the right side of the boat,... It is heavy on the left too much already.

Basically trying to figure out what windlass to buy, then work on putting the pieces together after getting the beast. Thank you,, Noyrt...

 

[Maine Sail]

If staying 12V I would not install anything smaller than a Lewmar V5 or equivalent. I don't know a single owner who has ever been sorry they sized conservatively rather than too tightly.

The isolator is an issue and you don't need two different starting batteries. If you add a windlass bank you will be carrying around a ton of un-used (usually at 95% SOC or higher) "dead lead"... I would look beyond the windlass to re-design the foundation of your system and once that is done do the windlass...

 

[jssailem]

The V5 will give you a 2000 watt motor. 300 lb working load and 4100 lb typical max pull.

That should raise all of your chain in 3.3 minutes. Not too shabby.
Consideration should be given to vertical or horizontal windlass. Space you have available to install. How the windlass will match up to your bow roller. How you will tie off the chain and anchor. It is a whole system.

 

[dlochner]

A few thoughts.

Follow the manufacturer's recommendation, and if need be go up a size. As Maine Sail said, no one ever complained about having too big a windlass.

I think the windlass only battery is unnecessary. A windlass draws a lot of current for a relatively short time, so the battery is just sitting there taking up space and making the bow heavier. It is important to have the cables properly sized. Also, when the windlass is being used, the diesel will be running, the alternator will supplement the battery, reducing the overall drain on the battery.

As MS said, it would be a good time to evaluate your electrical needs and anticipated needs and consider a refit of your electrical system. The AGMs sound like they are past their prime.

And last, go here: www.MarineHowTo.com There is a wealth of information on marine electrical systems.

 

[jssailem]

As Dave and Maine have shared, what you thought would be a windlass buy is really so much more.

You will be happy you did it. I know I am.

It really is like removing a bandaid. Grip it and rip it. The pain only last for a little time (that ripping sound is the boat bucks leaving your wallet).

But the joy of having the anchor sucked up from the bottom and your back not hurting from the manual retrieving motion - back and forth, back and forth, how much chain is out.
Priceless.

 

[Gunni]

My anchor, and chain requirements were similar and when looking to replace the OEM Simpson Lawrence horizontal windlass I went with the Lewmar H3 horizontal. No rope captstan. Windlass is available with a couple of different gypsy types. I used the original wiring from the engine room, and the original Lewmar 90A circuit breaker. A wiring buss bar mounts near the windlass in a dry area and also gives you options for windlass switches, counters and controls. The H3 is power up AND down. Very robust, capable of a near 2000lb pull. With proper use I doubt that you will exceed the 85 A I avoid using the windlass to pull the anchor out of the bottom, but really like the fast recovery mode - about 1ft per second.

https://www.lewmar.com/Catalogue/GB-Pages/Catalogue Edition 14 LR.31.pdf

 

[Kings Gambit]

You may be attempting to “over engineer” your windlass upgrade. The near maximum lift-power needed from the windlass amounts to the weight of the dead lift after the boat is brought up short. That would be about 1.2 lb x number of feet of 5/16” chain still out, plus the weight of the anchor. So, if anchored in 35 ft, when the boat is brought up short, the weight of the tackle remaining would be perhaps 110# at the onset. Add some more lbs if you ask the windlass to break out the anchor, which most experienced folks do not do. Break it out by allowing the boat to “bob” over it, perhaps w/some forward motion, etc. Then recover.

I have the 5/16” chain on a 45# anchor that I raise using a 12 v SL Sprint 1000 that draws up to about 80 amps. The house batteries that support it (and all other house functions) are four 6v true deep-cycles (flooded) wired in series-parallel to form two 12 v sets; plus there is a starter battery. The diesel runs when using the windlass, and there is a high output Balmar alternator. I allow the windlass to pull the boat up short only in light air. Otherwise, helm powers forward as I recover the chain, etc. When deployed, the chain rode is stopped off using a chain snubber of 5/16” SS chain hook on 5/8” 3-strand nylon rope led to a fwd deck horn cleat.

If you go to 3/8” chain, your dead lift will be more, but not by much. But you will need a gypsy head that will take the chain, etc.

 

[cjm1]

We have a Maxwell vwc1500 for a 21000 lbs boat with 3/8 in chain and have never had a problem with 12 volt. The battery set up is 2 number 27 deep cycle batteries and usually have engine running hoisting the anchor. The batteries are aft with the cable heavy welding wire frd to the windlass.

 

[Noyrt]

The isolator is an issue and you don't need two different starting batteries. If you add a windlass bank you will be carrying around a ton of un-used (usually at 95% SOC or higher) "dead lead"... I would look beyond the windlass to re-design the foundation of your system and once that is done do the windlass...[/QUOTE]

Money is not there to redesign the electrical system. It had been newly rewired to this configuration, before we bought the boat (within the last 10 years or so). Is the isolator an issue because is is only designed for 3 banks and they are all being used? Boat has two battery chargers... one is 60A and the other is 40A. 60A is older than dirt but works, other one is newer. Both are wired with three legs to the isolator.
I agree that I could use one battery for starting the engine and generator. That would be fine. I could combine those, and use the extra battery for the windlass. OR I could combine the extra battery to the house and wire to the house bank for the windlass. But I hate to mix wet batteries, with AGM's of different vintage. Hate to chunk a good (usable) battery. and have to buy another AGM, but but I think that could be a better solution.

I would love to get a 24V windlass, that would be awesome, but if I wire two batteries in series to get the 24V, do I have to buy a separate 24V charger or is there a way to wire the charger(s) circuit to charge each of the 12V batteries independent, while in series to the load? I would think of some power diodes or something? Any opinions? Thank you agian..

 

[Noyrt]

The V5 will give you a 2000 watt motor. 300 lb working load and 4100 lb typical max pull.

That should raise all of your chain in 3.3 minutes. Not too shabby.
Consideration should be given to vertical or horizontal windlass.

Yes, we need to stay with horizontal, like the manual one we have now.... the pipe and chain storage locker are staying the same. Also we have a pretty good bow sprit that holds both anchors and a lock mechanism in between that and the current manual windlass. Have pretty good place to mount a battery below the windlass(if needed) and put controls wiring etc. . Would love to upgrade to 24V windlass, but not sure how to configure the charger without a separate bank and separate chargers and alternator? Just need to pick the right one.... but trying to keep the all the incidentals in mind also. Thank you.. .

 

[Noyrt]

We have a Maxwell vwc1500 for a 21000 lbs boat with 3/8 in chain and have never had a problem with 12 volt..

We have a larger boat 35,000 lbs, and plenty of chain, (5/16"). so don't want to buy larger chain. Doubt we will ever anchor in 200' of water, LOL.... but the boat came with plenty of chain for it.. Hope to get larger than 1500.... but it all depends on the power setup... Thank you..

 

[Noyrt]

A few thoughts.

Follow the manufacturer's recommendation, and if need be go up a size. As Maine Sail said, no one ever complained about having too big a windlass...............
It sound like they are past their prime.......
And last, go here: www.MarineHowTo.com There is a wealth of information on marine electrical systems.

No manufacturer to contact on this boat,, long sense gone and not building sailboats anymore... Sitll a facebook group of these owners, and i am a lurker there also.. Have seen the marine how-to site.. don't find the specifics I'm looking for.
Thank you for the reply..

 

[Noyrt]

My anchor, and chain requirements were similar and when looking to replace the OEM Simpson Lawrence horizontal windlass I went with the Lewmar H3 horizontal. No rope captstan. Windlass is available with a couple of different gypsy types. I used the original wiring from the engine room, and the original Lewmar 90A circuit breaker. A wiring buss bar mounts near the windlass in a dry area and also gives you options for windlass switches, counters and controls. The H3 is power up AND down. Very robust, capable of a near 2000lb pull. With proper use I doubt that you will exceed the 85 A I avoid using the windlass to pull the anchor out of the bottom, but really like the fast recovery mode - about 1ft per second.

https://www.lewmar.com/Catalogue/GB-Pages/Catalogue Edition 14 LR.31.pdf

Thanks I'll check out the link... We have the simpson lawrence "sea tiger" manual horizontal also right now.. I saw the H2 was 5/16" and the H3 was 3/8" We measureed the chain and researched the dimensions online to confirm what I believe to be ACCO Peerless G43 5/16" chain. although with a micrometer it measures .345" in diameter. So I think we need the 5/16 gypsey. We have all chain also, no rode on the main anchor, but have rode on the second anchor with a short section of chain to the anchor. So could use the horizontal to pull that one up also..
Thanks for the feedback... We are sill looking at which one to buy.. would like to have the chain counter capability also. Some include these components, some don't...

 

[Noyrt]

Ok, I think i have decided to get a 24V windlass and rewire my house bank to a series / parallel arrangement. I have a bank of 4 AGM batteries, a little old, but still charging up decent. So if I split the bank in half to two banks of 2ea batteries in parallel, and make a one wire connection across the middle + to - I shoud get 24V on the outsides and still have at least the amp hour rating of the bank. So I think .....
My question is this: I know i can connect two individual 12V chargers up to each of the parallel banks, but I don't know if you can do this with the marine chargers that have multiple outputs? It seems like you should be able to do it?
But then I will also have to incorporate the isolator so the alternator output will still charge the whole thing, even if slowly. I have an isolator that is 1 alternator 3 bank output. In my mind it will work but I have to hook it up correctly of course...
Any opinions here?

As of today, I am leaning towards the Maxwell HRC 10-10 windlass... but will need the 5/16" gypsey.

Thank you again to all.. for the replies

 

[Davidasailor26]

My question is this: I know i can connect two individual 12V chargers up to each of the parallel banks, but I don't know if you can do this with the marine chargers that have multiple outputs? It seems like you should be able to do it?

I don't think you'll be able to do that for the 24V setup. The chargers I know of that have independent outputs still have a single common ground, so there's no way to reach to split the 24V bank into two. Also your alternator wouldn't be able to charge the higher set of batteries.

 

[Maine Sail]

Ok, I think i have decided to get a 24V windlass and rewire my house bank to a series / parallel arrangement. I have a bank of 4 AGM batteries, a little old, but still charging up decent. So if I split the bank in half to two banks of 2ea batteries in parallel, and make a one wire connection across the middle + to - I shoud get 24V on the outsides and still have at least the amp hour rating of the bank. So I think .....

Please don't do this. There are DC to DC chargers that take a 12V bank input and output charging to a 24V bank. It is all you need and the correct tool for the job..

Sterling Power DC to DC Battery to Battery Charger BB122470

 

[dlochner]

No manufacturer to contact on this boat,, long sense gone and not building sailboats anymore... Sitll a facebook group of these owners, and i am a lurker there also.. Have seen the marine how-to site.. don't find the specifics I'm looking for.
Thank you for the reply..

I meant the Windlass manufacturer, not the boat.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Personally, I don’t see why anyone needs a 24-volt windlass to lift 5/16” chain a few dozen feet off the bottom. Can anybody explain it? I'm willing to learn.

 

[dlochner]

Personally, I don’t see why anyone needs a 24-volt windlass to lift 5/16” chain a few dozen feet off the bottom. Can anybody explain it? I ‘m willing to learn.

Two reasons come to mind.

1. There is an existing 24v circuit and most of the boat is wired that way.

2. A 24v windlass will draw half the current (but same wattage) as a 12 v windlass. Thus smaller, lighter, cheaper, cables can be used.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Two reasons come to mind.

1. There is an existing 24v circuit and most of the boat is wired that way.

2. A 24v windlass will draw half the current (but same wattage) as a 12 v windlass. Thus smaller, lighter, cheaper, cables can be used.

1. Ok, but it sounds as if the OP is looking to rewire the boat to accommodate the windlass(?).
2. Who really cares about “lighter” cables on a 16-ton boat for an intermittent 3-min jobs, etc.? Rewire the boat for that?