Searching for a new to me interim boat <30ft.

Apex

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Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
Hmmm... He said he was looking for performance. 90% of the boats mentioned so far have a hard time getting out of their own way.

If I was not knee deep in boats now, I would strike at this:


Jodi's not a fan of the limited head room; but she loves the speed......
same reason for mopping up the drool off the keyboard and moving on....too spartan on the interior. Columbia 30 lifting keel on trailer? same story.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Not really understanding why you are dreaming about another boat less than 30' if you already have one that you seem to like well enough and what you really want is a larger cruising boat when you can have a slip for it. Besides that, I don't really think there are that many boats less than 30' to dream about for cruising unless you have a much larger budget for a really pretty, high-performance daysailer, like an Alerion or Morris or something similar. I'm sure there are some great cruisers around that will eventually come on the market, but your reason for wanting something different than you have isn't exactly clear. @DArcy came up with a good one, I think. The FIrst 29 would also seem to be a good one.

All that said, if you aren't fond of Catalina 28 or 30 then I would focus on Beneteau products in the size you want, or perhaps Tartan or Sabre products if there are enough around to shop. I would focus on the models that are most popular and where you would find the most for sale. If you are seriously planning to exchange what you have for a replacement, then I would select a model where the most are available and look for the best condition. If you are mostly "dreaming", then you would seem to have more time to wait for the right one to come along. ;)
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I have to admit I never “dreamed” of owning a boat under 30 ft. If you want “performance”, which I expect means speed, in the small size range, then you probably should look at a planing-hull type, which are typically one-design racing models with a “Clorox bottle” interior. Maybe something like a B25. “Cruiser-racer” is a mythical creature, like Big Foot, I’ve decided. The displacement-hull cruisers are going to be constrained by hull-speed, a function of water-line length, and their weight. But if you’re satisfied with a cruising yacht under 30 ft that might do well in PHRF racing, and that is your “performance” criterion, then there is the Newport 28, if you can find one. However, I happen to know where you might get one here in Long Beach, but then you must move it to where you wish to sail, etc.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I have to admit I never “dreamed” of owning a boat under 30 ft. If you want “performance”, which I expect means speed, in the small size range, then you probably should look at a planing-hull type, which are typically one-design racing models with a “Clorox bottle” interior. Maybe something like a B25. “Cruiser-racer” is a mythical creature, like Big Foot, I’ve decided. The displacement-hull cruisers are going to be constrained by hull-speed, a function of water-line length, and their weight. But if you’re satisfied with a cruising yacht under 30 ft that might do well in PHRF racing, and that is your “performance” criterion, then there is the Newport 28, if you can find one. However, I happen to know where you might get one here in Long Beach, but then you must move it to where you wish to sail, etc.
Here's your Bigfoot; in 30 feet. I have vid of sightings in 40 feet LOA as well.

 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Now you're talking ... high performance, modern design! I would stand corrected that there actually are boats in that size range to dream about. I just had the impression that @Apex was looking more for a temporary diversion from his project-heavy current boat. But if the budget is there for this POGO, I could definitely see the appeal and the dream!
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I've seen one of these, the 40 ft, I think, sailing around LB some years ago. Never had the chance to look aboard one, however.
 

Apex

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Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
@Scott T-Bird , great comments. I am certainly back and forth, which is even confusing to me: but the point is to garner conversations on boats in this size range, steering much of that towards my interests and gathering others interests in what features are important.

WRT what I may plan? I am looking for something to tick a few more boxes in desires for improved performance and more amenities. If that comes around, make a leap into a new boat and offload current projects. Otherwise the ODay 28 is nice enough, true. The longer slip is years away. So this is likely a temporary 5yr move anyway. But it is fun to look regardless. Just as @Kings Gambit mentioned, waterline limits speed. In sub-30 boats I went from looking at cruisers in the 120-150 phrf range to 170's. Not exhilarating, but a move up from the 200's.

POGO 30: I don't see ANY for sale. :(
What of the Dehler OD? It may not fit MY slip with permanent sprit, but similar performance to a POGO?
Alerion and Morris really are nice looking daysailers, aren't they?

And interestingly enough modern 30's are the new 31', 32' or even longer in length:huh:
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Just as @Kings Gambit mentioned, waterline limits speed. In sub-30 boats I went from looking at cruisers in the 120-150 phrf range to 170's. Not exhilarating, but a move up from the 200's.
Don't fall into the trap that make you think about hull speed as the key limiting function.

Hull speed is what you boat does on a beam reach in 15 knots TWS.

All other times speed is a function of design, and lightness. While 35 feet long, on 40-50 mile daysails, our old First 36.7 would beat cruisers of the same length or longer by HOURS into away anchorages or harbors. A faster boat is faster always, and it add up.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Must take remarks in context. OP is essentially wishing for a performance cruiser/racer. If “performance” equates to STW, then a displacement hull design is not likely to be fast relative to a planing hull type, even in best wind, especially if it is heavy with cruising equipment, etc. Yachts claiming both functions actually favor one or the other. The X-41could switch from one to the other by having what amounted to removable “furniture”, for lack of a better term, below.
 

Apex

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Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
....our old First 36.7 would beat cruisers of the same length or longer by HOURS into away anchorages or harbors. A faster boat is faster always, and it add up.
JD, what "common" boats do you see as performers in the 28-30 realm?

36.7 has a comfortable below. In fact is on the list come time to move up in size. Though I would prefer the aft head version of that boat, a forward head seems to be the most common.

But I am not necessarily looking for a PHRF beater, but solid performer. The first 260 spirit: how do you see your boat? What do others say on performers and PHRF beaters in this range?

Looks like KG recommends the Newport 28 as competitive to its 192-198 rating. (We can start a PHRF discussion in a different thread. ha)
I would argue the O28 is also competitive to its 201, at least when compared to other white sail non-racers.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I once helped a friend race his N28 in non-spin class where with double headsails in a long off-wind leg (12 n.mi.) he actually corrected out over several spin boats, but those were racing in a different class, of course. I helped in other races, but I remember that one. The boat had done so well that we were accused of skipping a mark.:doh: Not true, of course. Just some sore losers.:huh:
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
JD, what "common" boats do you see as performers in the 28-30 realm?

36.7 has a comfortable below. In fact is on the list come time to move up in size. Though I would prefer the aft head version of that boat, a forward head seems to be the most common.

But I am not necessarily looking for a PHRF beater, but solid performer. The first 260 spirit: how do you see your boat? What do others say on performers and PHRF beaters in this range?

Looks like KG recommends the Newport 28 as competitive to its 192-198 rating. (We can start a PHRF discussion in a different thread. ha)
I would argue the O28 is also competitive to its 201, at least when compared to other white sail non-racers.
The dirty secret is 30 feet LOA is a TERRIBLE length for performance cruisers. Why? at this length people expect 6.1 of headroom, and ALL the comforts; full electrical, refrig, propane, diesel, hot/cold pressure water. The exact same systems/weight a 35-footer has (hell 40 footer), but having to be carried in 30 feet. So they are HEAVY.

Take a heavy boat designed by someone that does not understand (or care about) performance, and you get a pig in the water.

Want the best used <30 performance boat (you can cruise) on the market? Laser 28, by Bruce Farr. PHRF 120. You're welcome!

 
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May 25, 2012
4,333
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
take a heavy boat design sailed by a person that does understand performance and you get sea-kind-ly ride that is a delight to sail and will get you from A to B quite handley.

take a high performance design by someone that does not understand (or care about) performance, and you get a pig in the water, PLUS an crappy ride.

:poke:
 

Apex

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Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
What of BlueJay?JD. I am seeing the same comments from gf....nicer galley, refrigeration....etc. maybe I should take to fabricating CF Components?
 

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,691
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
JD is right about the Laser 28. Those things are giant killers in PHRF racing. Great in light air but they really get up and move in a breeze with a skilled crew. There are a few of them around here that are very competitive even with their low (for their size) PHRF ratings. And they have good volume below. They were lightly built, some had Kevlar in the layup which helped. There was an issue with tabbing on the main bulkhead but many have had that fixed already. An all around great boat.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
What of BlueJay?JD. I am seeing the same comments from gf....nicer galley, refrigeration....etc. maybe I should take to fabricating CF Components?
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the First 260. But she is in fact only 24.5 feet LOA, and rather heavy for her size. Very quick in a breeze (again for her length), but slower in light airs. Part of that again is all that 'stuff' shoved into a 24 foot box.

Its why I'm still amazed and saddened that Beneteau never imported the First 27.7 here (BlueJ's bigger sister). In 28 feet the concept absolutely sparkles. TONS of room downstairs (due the the beam), and performance to burn. Closest thing to a Pogo30 around.

 
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NLPete

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Apr 20, 2021
23
Walker Bay 10 Conception Bay
I am mulling over an Ontario 32 for my first boat right now but my dream boat is a CS 30.

Sadly there are slim pickings out here.
 

NLPete

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Apr 20, 2021
23
Walker Bay 10 Conception Bay
The Ontario is interesting, as it is a full foot wider beam, two feet longer but a full foot less draft than the CS30.

OTOH, the CS30 has no brightwork on deck and I love the oval topped hatch to the front berth/head. Also, the diesel is sooo accessable!
 
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