Schafer Outrageous Pricing

BigEasy · Jun 13, 2023

Yes, it is getting ridiculous regarding prices of pretty much everything. I plan to rebuild mine, when necessary.

jviss · Jun 13, 2023

kloudie1 said:
Obvious price gouging really annoys me.

How is it price gouging? What should they do? Twice the price of Garhauer sounds about right to me. And you think the Garhauer price is O.K.?

The Schaefer series 3 cheek block is $41 on Amazon, BTW, so only about 30% more than Garhauer, not 100%! Oh, and you'd have to pay shipping for the latter, the Amazon one with Prime is free one day shipping.

The whole "price gouging" complaint thing gets under my skin! People have choices, and people who make and sell products and services should be able to charge whatever they like. You aren't forced to buy them.

Rich Stidger · Jun 13, 2023

jviss said:
The whole "price gouging" complaint thing gets under my skin! People have choices, and people who make and sell products and services should be able to charge whatever they like. You aren't forced to buy them.
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I think the basis of unhappiness with prices is that everything is increasing and I think that some businesses increase because of the trend and not out of necessity. And if you are retired like me, our incomes never go up unlike those still working. It is all one-sided. I feel the pain. Dismounting the soap box.

jviss · Jun 13, 2023

Yes, Rich, I'm recently retired and on a fixed income, but c'mon, we're talking yachts here, aren't we? Ha, ha.

I would like to see the Schaefer prices over time. But, anyone who's manufacturing products is feeling the inflation pain, particularly with fuel, transportation, etc.

Scott T-Bird · Jun 13, 2023

You had a block that lasted 37 years and you are complaining about price gouging? Think how long they had to wait before you needed to replace it. Now you are just short circuiting their single opportunity from you to stay in business! It's not easy being a retailer!

capta · Jun 13, 2023

I find it interesting when folks say that "marine" gear is so expensive. It is an incredibly small market, in the scheme of things, and if the suppliers are using quality materials, much of which must be custom made, then these items are not a bad deal. At least they are better than nothing, or crappy gear, IMO.

BigEasy · Jun 13, 2023

jviss said:
The Schaefer series 3 cheek block is $41 on Amazon, BTW, so only about 30% more than Garhauer, not 100%! Oh, and you'd have to pay shipping for the latter, the Amazon one with Prime is free one day shipping.

The fact that shipping is "free" from Amazon, has nothing to do with the comparable price of the blocks. Nothing is free; you're prepaying shipping with Amazon Prime membership. And only 30% more, that is significant to me. With regards to pricing, you are correct, people have choices; however, Schaefer came out on the losing end...no sale.

jviss · Jun 13, 2023

BigEasy said:
The fact that shipping is "free" from Amazon, has nothing to do with the comparable price of the blocks. Nothing is free; you're prepaying shipping with Amazon Prime membership. And only 30% more, that is significant to me. With regards to pricing, you are correct, people have choices; however, Schaefer came out on the losing end...no sale.

When you average the prime membership fee over all of the things that I buy on amazon in a year, it's virtually free; like, less than a buck per shipment. In this case 30% is like $20, certainly worth not having to fill holes and drill new ones. But, to each his own. I enjoy fixing things, too, and I would have looked to replacing the sheaves as the OP did.

dLj · Jun 13, 2023

kloudie1 said:
Ya know how some things get under your skin? My current one is with the Schaefer blocks people. I have two small cheek blocks whose sheaves failed due to UV damage after 37 years .. Great service, a good product.. When I looked to replace them, I wanted to maintain the blot spacing so no holes would have to be drilled and or filled.. I was appalled that the replacement series 3 cheek block was on the order of $60.. crazy.. Garhauer makes a larger similar cheek block for around half Scheafer's price.. but it would require more holes and patches..
I bought sheaves from Vela for around $5 each and rebuilt the cheek blocks myself.. ya know, $10 is less than $120 !
Obvious price gouging really annoys me.

I was equally astounded at their block prices. I had a couple of the blocks used for my roller furler that were broken so I thought I'd simply replace them all. I went to the Schaefer page to get them and they were simply out of my price range. I don't recall now what the price was, but I have several running along my stanutions to reach the roller furler. I ended up going to Bacons and finding comparable block there that were in excellent condition and bought them even though they were used.

The other pet peeve I have is that suppliers don't carry the same installation footprints. I had to replace the two blocks running my staysail sheets and those are a serious installation with through bolts and backing plates, access panels on the inside - having to change that whole set-up is a major job. I ended up finding a block that used a shackle I could fit through the connection on my existing baseplates and then I had to disassemble and cut off the connector from the old blocks to get the new blocks mounted and with the same mounting holes. I'm not jumping on Schaefer for that one - those were originally Lewmar blocks. So now I still have the original Lewmar bases but with blocks from Barton. Now, those blocks were not inexpensive, but they are very nice blocks and I'd have to say worth every penny I paid for them.

dj

NYSail · Jun 13, 2023

BigEasy said:
The fact that shipping is "free" from Amazon, has nothing to do with the comparable price of the blocks. Nothing is free; you're prepaying shipping with Amazon Prime membership. And only 30% more, that is significant to me. With regards to pricing, you are correct, people have choices; however, Schaefer came out on the losing end...no sale.

37 years from the original……. Hope your repair gives you that.

BigEasy · Jun 13, 2023

NYSail said:
37 years from the original……. Hope your repair gives you that.

Not my block and not my repair; however, new sheaves should theoretically go another 37 years, especially if @kloudie1 did the repair! Point is that with a bit of ingenuity & effort, one can certainly make boat ownership more affordable, can learn new skills along the way, & gain a degree of independence in the event that something breaks "out there"! Don't think that I am going out on a limb here, but judging from the posts on SBO, I do believe that most of us obtain a degree of satisfaction doing our own repairs & maintenance as well as saving a few (or many) boat bucks along the way.

Scott T-Bird · Jun 13, 2023

BigEasy said:
Don't think that I am going out on a limb here, but judging from the posts on SBO, I do believe that most of us obtain a degree of satisfaction doing our own repairs & maintenance as well as saving a few (or many) boat bucks along the way.

I agree ... just giving @kloudie1 a little ribbing! (oops, I just read that millennials & gen z's have a hard time understanding many of the old expressions and it alienates them in the work place when they don't catch on to expressions used by us old folks like "cut the mustard" or "back to the salt mines"). "Out on a limb here" is a good one that you can't use anymore!

CarlN · Jun 13, 2023

Fixed income? Most retired people have a faster rising income than when they were working. Social security increases with inflation (8.7% this year). So do most pensions. If your investments don't exceed the rate of inflation then you need a better investment management.

Schaefer is one of the few marine equipment companies that hasn't been bought out by a private equity company. They are trying to survive in a very tough market. No one is getting rich.

Schaefer blocks have always been about 30% more expensive than Garhauer. I've owned both. And like both. I've never had a Schaefer block fail in 40 years. I have had one Garhauer fail (although I overloaded it so not their fault).

BigEasy · Jun 13, 2023

No doubt, it is a tough market for marine hardware manufacturers especially with several boat manufacturers closing or moving over seas in the past decade. I have never been satisfied with the turning blocks on my boat. They appear to be a generic brand that US Spars used on Beneteau’s built in the US. After 16 years they are still functional; however, I believe that they do add much friction to the roller furling mainsail gear. When it’s time to replace, I don’t think it would be practical to rebuild with the phenolic/ plastic housings....too much UV damage present.

jviss · Jun 14, 2023

dLj said:
I went to the Schaefer page to get them

Well, that's going to be list price, $75 each. You can get them for $58 through WalMart. Maybe even cheaper if you search around.

dLj · Jun 14, 2023

jviss said:
Well, that's going to be list price, $75 each. You can get them for $58 through WalMart. Maybe even cheaper if you search around.

I'm sure you are right, but $75 X 12 = $900 and I was not interested in spending about a grand so I bought them used for about $40 total cost. I did have to spend a couple hours in my favorite marine chandlery.... Oh dear - I"m not sure how to put that into the cost calculations, should that be a debit or credit?????

dj

jviss · Jun 14, 2023

dLj said:
I'm sure you are right, but $75 X 12 = $900 and I was not interested in spending about a grand so I bought them used for about $40 total cost. I did have to spend a couple hours in my favorite marine chandlery.... Oh dear - I"m not sure how to put that into the cost calculations, should that be a debit or credit?????

dj

Ha, ha! Wow, you have a dozen of those stanchion blocks? That seems like a lot. I. think I might have - four? - on a 38 foot boat. You said "a couple" in your post. For a dozen, on a 40' boat, you'd have to have stanchions spaced maybe 2' apart from cockpit to bow! Wow.

For me, I now have more more time than money, so I wouldn't count time spent searching for stuff.

FastOlson · Jun 14, 2023

Schaefer. Yes...
Sometimes great design and engineering... and sometimes not. I tried their stanchion blocks and two out of three failed in a few seasons. Some old blocks were fine, but the plastic they used for sheaves failed due to UV, and failed far sooner than competitors. SS parts are well designed and finished.
Their parts pricing was higher than most competition 40 years ago, and often still is.
Sometimes, in a cynical moment, I ponder that Harken subsidies them secretly so that Harken can maintain higher prices, albeit really driven by their significant R&D budget.

In the end, I try to source the best product for the intended use -- and different vendors will have parts that dominate different specialities.
Our boat is mostly festooned with Harken and Garhauer, with winches, ports, and hatches from Lewmar. And, some excellent ss parts from Schaefer.

As others properly point out, we are in a midget niche market, which makes parts sourcing difficult. And so it goes....