- Status
Weboaatewt sanding
A lot of yards are very particular about people sanding their own boats especially if they are using a sander since the dust lands all over other boats. It could be rather expensive if you have to pay the bill to clean up all the other boats. I wet sand the bottom of my boat and use a screen that many tapers use when finishing the sheetrock in a house. It does a great job and is relatively clean. Just make sure that you cover your skin and wear a respirator since this stuff is a hazardous material Good luck Charlie Gruetzner S/V Angels' Grace
A lot of yards are very particular about people sanding their own boats especially if they are using a sander since the dust lands all over other boats. It could be rather expensive if you have to pay the bill to clean up all the other boats. I wet sand the bottom of my boat and use a screen that many tapers use when finishing the sheetrock in a house. It does a great job and is relatively clean. Just make sure that you cover your skin and wear a respirator since this stuff is a hazardous material Good luck Charlie Gruetzner S/V Angels' Grace
Porter Cable brand
six-inch, random-orbit, variable-speed with vacuum-hose attachment connected to a shop-vac with paper liner. Has hook and loop pad. Search yellow pages or web to find it, hardware stores don't carry anything this good. Rent it if you won't buy this beauty.(Palm sander if you want to take forever, kill the sander and turn your arm numb. Never a circular drill&pad.) Ground covers. Serious respirator, not a mask. Eye protection. A bunny suit is good. Some tarps for shade. Proper sandpaper with grit recommended for the particular task you are doing. A patient attitude and good advice. Beverages.
six-inch, random-orbit, variable-speed with vacuum-hose attachment connected to a shop-vac with paper liner. Has hook and loop pad. Search yellow pages or web to find it, hardware stores don't carry anything this good. Rent it if you won't buy this beauty.(Palm sander if you want to take forever, kill the sander and turn your arm numb. Never a circular drill&pad.) Ground covers. Serious respirator, not a mask. Eye protection. A bunny suit is good. Some tarps for shade. Proper sandpaper with grit recommended for the particular task you are doing. A patient attitude and good advice. Beverages.
Paper Liner = Drywall Dust Bag
Totally agree w/ Mr Dawsons recommendation. The only thing that might need elaborating if someone isn't familiar with it is the paper bag which should be the "drywall dust" variety. It's extra fine and will help capture the copper dust to keep the motor from shorting out. As for operation of the system, if the typical small diameter hose is used to connect to the shop vac, which is better than a large diameter hose because the air moves faster and keeps the dust going, because the copper paint dust is so heavy it settles out in any low spots so the hose has to be emptied periodically, but gradually so as not to overload the paper bag. Maybe, perhaps, if there is more horsepower on the shop vac there will be less dust that will settle out in the hose. My shop vac is is Sears and it's probably 40 years old so I've got the dust-setttling problem.
Totally agree w/ Mr Dawsons recommendation. The only thing that might need elaborating if someone isn't familiar with it is the paper bag which should be the "drywall dust" variety. It's extra fine and will help capture the copper dust to keep the motor from shorting out. As for operation of the system, if the typical small diameter hose is used to connect to the shop vac, which is better than a large diameter hose because the air moves faster and keeps the dust going, because the copper paint dust is so heavy it settles out in any low spots so the hose has to be emptied periodically, but gradually so as not to overload the paper bag. Maybe, perhaps, if there is more horsepower on the shop vac there will be less dust that will settle out in the hose. My shop vac is is Sears and it's probably 40 years old so I've got the dust-setttling problem.
Excellent answer John Dawson.....
That's the kind of response I like to see... not wishy-washy "it depends" mumbo jumbo. Straight forward and to the point... with authority! Lots of meat and potatoes. But... I'm feeling a little inadequate now, cause I only have a DeWalt. When I proudly brought the new Yellow r-o vari speed to the do-it-yourself yard at my first haul out years ago, I wondered why the techs didn't seem that impressed. Now I Understand.... Thanks for shaking me out of denial.
That's the kind of response I like to see... not wishy-washy "it depends" mumbo jumbo. Straight forward and to the point... with authority! Lots of meat and potatoes. But... I'm feeling a little inadequate now, cause I only have a DeWalt. When I proudly brought the new Yellow r-o vari speed to the do-it-yourself yard at my first haul out years ago, I wondered why the techs didn't seem that impressed. Now I Understand.... Thanks for shaking me out of denial.
Never use a power sander
use chemical paint remover first. In most cases you just need a light sand!
use chemical paint remover first. In most cases you just need a light sand!
Don't forget latex gloves
I used the method Mr. Dawson described but you can't forget the gloves & duct tape to tape the gloves to the "bunny" suit. No matter how much vacuum power the machine has, some of that dust will settle on any exposed skin. MINIMIZE that!! It burns!! LaDonna
I used the method Mr. Dawson described but you can't forget the gloves & duct tape to tape the gloves to the "bunny" suit. No matter how much vacuum power the machine has, some of that dust will settle on any exposed skin. MINIMIZE that!! It burns!! LaDonna
or whatever
you will see anything and everything being used at a busy marina in the spring. My favorite solution was some guy that duct-taped a palm orbital (vacuum vent)to one end of a long tube and the smallest shop vac (like a car unit) to the other end. The weight was balanced, and instead of squatting, he just stuck the sander end under and ran it up and down the hull. Good enough for new bottom paint. I don't have experience with paint removers, but what I've heard is you shouldn't overexpose the f'glass to them as they will attack the surface after removing the paint. I've also heard they should be used if the hull is being prepared for water-barriers so the waxy gelcoat won't be driven into the sand marks. Sand afterwards to give the barrier a grip. I admire those who prefer handtools and take extreme caution with their hulls. If you do repair work, etc. a good orbital does a variety of things well. Don't sand upwind of painting, etc. as nothing will capture all dust. In Maryland, there is a "Clean Marina" program where guidelines are voluntarily used to protect the environment well as you. Again, just don't use anything circular that will damage your surface.
you will see anything and everything being used at a busy marina in the spring. My favorite solution was some guy that duct-taped a palm orbital (vacuum vent)to one end of a long tube and the smallest shop vac (like a car unit) to the other end. The weight was balanced, and instead of squatting, he just stuck the sander end under and ran it up and down the hull. Good enough for new bottom paint. I don't have experience with paint removers, but what I've heard is you shouldn't overexpose the f'glass to them as they will attack the surface after removing the paint. I've also heard they should be used if the hull is being prepared for water-barriers so the waxy gelcoat won't be driven into the sand marks. Sand afterwards to give the barrier a grip. I admire those who prefer handtools and take extreme caution with their hulls. If you do repair work, etc. a good orbital does a variety of things well. Don't sand upwind of painting, etc. as nothing will capture all dust. In Maryland, there is a "Clean Marina" program where guidelines are voluntarily used to protect the environment well as you. Again, just don't use anything circular that will damage your surface.
Best Sander
The best sander I've used is the one held by an employee of the boat yard. I only know of one yard around here where you can even do it yourself, so it isn't really a consideration. Just get out the checkbook and come back in a couple of weeks. Being able to understand the boat systems and make neccesary repairs underway doesn't require a knowledge of ablative coatings and tyvek coveralls.
The best sander I've used is the one held by an employee of the boat yard. I only know of one yard around here where you can even do it yourself, so it isn't really a consideration. Just get out the checkbook and come back in a couple of weeks. Being able to understand the boat systems and make neccesary repairs underway doesn't require a knowledge of ablative coatings and tyvek coveralls.
In the future....
I don't mean to be a smart a--, however, in the future why not use an ablative paint, or one of the new water base ablatives from Pettit and Interlux? No more sanding; or at least very little . There is also a product called Peel Away (or some such name). West Marine has its own version. It is non toxic, environmenmtially acceptable, and relatively easy to clean up. You apply the product, then cover with a paper (supplied) and left for about 24 hours, then peel the layers of paint off, roll up the paper with the removed paint and dispose of accordingly. It is not cheep, however it is not harmful to the boat, environment or you. Be absolutely certain to follow directions completely. THEN apply an ablative such as Micron CSC or West Marine CPP. Pat
I don't mean to be a smart a--, however, in the future why not use an ablative paint, or one of the new water base ablatives from Pettit and Interlux? No more sanding; or at least very little . There is also a product called Peel Away (or some such name). West Marine has its own version. It is non toxic, environmenmtially acceptable, and relatively easy to clean up. You apply the product, then cover with a paper (supplied) and left for about 24 hours, then peel the layers of paint off, roll up the paper with the removed paint and dispose of accordingly. It is not cheep, however it is not harmful to the boat, environment or you. Be absolutely certain to follow directions completely. THEN apply an ablative such as Micron CSC or West Marine CPP. Pat
Rental
Many boat yards will rent sanders with vacuum attachments. Check with your yard or local equipment rental place. And do cover every inch of skin and wear a real respirator not a dust mask. Dan Sheehan
Many boat yards will rent sanders with vacuum attachments. Check with your yard or local equipment rental place. And do cover every inch of skin and wear a real respirator not a dust mask. Dan Sheehan
Not at all, Pat
the ablatives are certainly becoming the popular way to go, people love their convenience. I use the Micron CSC myself. It certainly washes away easily and prevents buildup. My friend Steve, however, told me there was a discussion going on about the amount of copper and other components being added to the water with so many boats using it. This would be a concern in the Chesapeake, which is a semi-enclosed, environmentally sensitive area with a huge boat population. When I parked my trailer in the driveway and washed the bottom again, I was surprised by the blue stream of water running into the gutter. Brushing the scumline quickly exposed the warning coat. Have you or anyone else heard any comments on this, or come across more information? (Don't forget some racers want the hard-surfaced paints.)
the ablatives are certainly becoming the popular way to go, people love their convenience. I use the Micron CSC myself. It certainly washes away easily and prevents buildup. My friend Steve, however, told me there was a discussion going on about the amount of copper and other components being added to the water with so many boats using it. This would be a concern in the Chesapeake, which is a semi-enclosed, environmentally sensitive area with a huge boat population. When I parked my trailer in the driveway and washed the bottom again, I was surprised by the blue stream of water running into the gutter. Brushing the scumline quickly exposed the warning coat. Have you or anyone else heard any comments on this, or come across more information? (Don't forget some racers want the hard-surfaced paints.)
Your right John, but....
....If you compare the amount of copper in the ablative paints to the non ablative, you will see substantially less. This is due to the fact that the primary de-fouling technique is the actual wearing away of the paint. I would think, although I don't know positively, that the overall effect is that less copper leaches into the water then those paints with a heavy copper content. A call to Interlux or Pettit should be able to answer the question fully. Additionally, not having to sand the bottom greatly reduces the amount of copper dust in the air/water, not to mention the lungs. The new water based ablatives are even more environmentially friendly, and I am told by an Interlux rep., they are very effective. How far racers go to pick up an extra 10th of a knot is amusing to me, being a non-racer. It is also understandable. If you race your boat you tend to get caught up in all sorts of rediculous things to gain the slightest advantage. I guess it's a matter of philosophy (sorry). At any rate the ablatives are quite a bit softer, however, I have found that, amoung ablatives, the West Marine CPP is harder then the Micron - and cheaper, even though it's made by the same company - Interlux. Three years ago I moved my boat to the Chesapeake for a couple of seasons. Before the move I decided to paint the bottom with one coat of Blue CPP under two coats of Black CPP knowing that I was going to be doing quite a bit of cruising between the Chesapeake and Block island. Aside from a minor touch up last year at the leading edges and water line, this will be the first bottom painting in three years. I will simply scrub the bottom with a stiff brush and water, allow to dry, feather in any bald spots, then repaint. Hopefully I will not have to repaint for at least two years. Pat
....If you compare the amount of copper in the ablative paints to the non ablative, you will see substantially less. This is due to the fact that the primary de-fouling technique is the actual wearing away of the paint. I would think, although I don't know positively, that the overall effect is that less copper leaches into the water then those paints with a heavy copper content. A call to Interlux or Pettit should be able to answer the question fully. Additionally, not having to sand the bottom greatly reduces the amount of copper dust in the air/water, not to mention the lungs. The new water based ablatives are even more environmentially friendly, and I am told by an Interlux rep., they are very effective. How far racers go to pick up an extra 10th of a knot is amusing to me, being a non-racer. It is also understandable. If you race your boat you tend to get caught up in all sorts of rediculous things to gain the slightest advantage. I guess it's a matter of philosophy (sorry). At any rate the ablatives are quite a bit softer, however, I have found that, amoung ablatives, the West Marine CPP is harder then the Micron - and cheaper, even though it's made by the same company - Interlux. Three years ago I moved my boat to the Chesapeake for a couple of seasons. Before the move I decided to paint the bottom with one coat of Blue CPP under two coats of Black CPP knowing that I was going to be doing quite a bit of cruising between the Chesapeake and Block island. Aside from a minor touch up last year at the leading edges and water line, this will be the first bottom painting in three years. I will simply scrub the bottom with a stiff brush and water, allow to dry, feather in any bald spots, then repaint. Hopefully I will not have to repaint for at least two years. Pat
Chemical strippers...
Well, I'm now in day two of the chemical removal....with mixed sentiments. The Peel-Away people have a web site and have products with different levels of strength... I'm at 'one', the lowest. After leaving it on for 24-hrs it softened the paint, but had little 'peel' off. Probably applied too thin as it is difficult to get the 1/8" thickness they require.... a non-metalic toothed trowel may help. Applied the balance of the remaining material and am waiting another day for results... Sherwin-Williams carries the 1-gal unit for $25. ....and that should do about 30 sf... I find this product easy to apply and use... Options for me are for a stronger flavor of this caustic stuff, (which requires the application of an acetic acid neutralizer when finished), or to break out the sander... Any one had a better/different experience?
Well, I'm now in day two of the chemical removal....with mixed sentiments. The Peel-Away people have a web site and have products with different levels of strength... I'm at 'one', the lowest. After leaving it on for 24-hrs it softened the paint, but had little 'peel' off. Probably applied too thin as it is difficult to get the 1/8" thickness they require.... a non-metalic toothed trowel may help. Applied the balance of the remaining material and am waiting another day for results... Sherwin-Williams carries the 1-gal unit for $25. ....and that should do about 30 sf... I find this product easy to apply and use... Options for me are for a stronger flavor of this caustic stuff, (which requires the application of an acetic acid neutralizer when finished), or to break out the sander... Any one had a better/different experience?
Chem. stripper...cont.
Well, It worked....not to 'peel away', not exactly... it was removed with the help of a scotch pad and 8+ hours of elbow grease, lots of fresh water rinse and more touch-up detailing.... The 'up side' with the low strength stuff is it apparently left behind a barrier coat of underlayment that I didn't know I had and did not affect any fairing or bottom repair materials....
I am pleased that the manufacturer did not represent this product with the image of an attractive blonde with long acrylic fingernails smiling all the while removing the bottom paint....as this stuff was VERY messy and labor intensive....but WORKED with little airborne dust.....the leaching of the run-off will linger for a while. The first bit of this stuff that hits any exposed skin will make you a BELIEVER in glasses and other protection....I kept a hose close by for flushing purposes as well.
Well, It worked....not to 'peel away', not exactly... it was removed with the help of a scotch pad and 8+ hours of elbow grease, lots of fresh water rinse and more touch-up detailing.... The 'up side' with the low strength stuff is it apparently left behind a barrier coat of underlayment that I didn't know I had and did not affect any fairing or bottom repair materials....
I am pleased that the manufacturer did not represent this product with the image of an attractive blonde with long acrylic fingernails smiling all the while removing the bottom paint....as this stuff was VERY messy and labor intensive....but WORKED with little airborne dust.....the leaching of the run-off will linger for a while. The first bit of this stuff that hits any exposed skin will make you a BELIEVER in glasses and other protection....I kept a hose close by for flushing purposes as well.- Status