Sand and Varnish for non skid?

[BAD ORCA]

I took another nasty spill today coming down the companion way. i slid right off the top step and free-fell and landed on the botttom step right on my shoulder blade. Didnt even get a chance to grab anything on the way to the floor. This is about the sixth or seventh time i have gone down the companionway steps. Luckily im still in good shape so my body is absorbing the impacts, but one of these day im not going to be so lucky.

I have really nice solid teak steps that i want to avoid turning into an eyesore though by sticking on something ugly just to make them nonskid, but its gotten to the point that i need to do something. I was trying to come up with some ideas today and realize have a can of varnish that i need to use up, so was thinking of painting several layers on the steps with fine silica in-between on each layer. maybe build up a nice thickness of varnish and silica sand. I already have the silica from redoing a portion of the deck. This would help preserve the nice look of the steps i think, because the sand would wet out and be mostly transparent, i think. Before i do though and potentially create a really messy headache, i figured i would ask if anyone has tried sand with varnish before? If so has it held up reasonably well over time or does it wear out extremely fast? I also have a can of polyurethane that is fresh that i have no real use for, so could use that or varnish. I have Le Tonkenois varnish which seems like its maybe a bit more durable than the polyurethane, so not sure which might be better. The steps currently have varnish on them, so not sure if the poly can be appied over varnish? I guess i could google that. Anyways, any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[JoeWhite]

Try on an other plank of wood and see it's suitablity first

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

This shows a single strip of sand on my epoxy and cloth covered stairs. I was keeping it minimal to avoid covering the dark strips but a number of years later decided to do the leading edge in sand as well. Been there for 20+ years and still looks reasonably good.

Whether you do the entire surface or artsy strips like I did, they both seem to curtail the slip-sliding down the stairs with the out of control crowd.

The way I did it was to apply masking tape on the last epoxy coat and then carefully apply varnish the areas in between the masking tape. I then lightly sprinkled crushed silica from about a meter above the work to get an even light coating. The wet varnish acted as the glue. Two more coats to the entire step (minus the masking tape) once the glue coat was dry and that was another job written off.

 

[BAD ORCA]

View attachment 239952

This shows a single strip of sand on my epoxy and cloth covered stairs. I was keeping it minimal to avoid covering the dark strips but a number of years later decided to do the leading edge in sand as well. Been there for 20+ years and still looks reasonably good.

Whether you do the entire surface or artsy strips like I did, they both seem to curtail the slip-sliding down the stairs with the out of control crowd.

The way I did it was to apply masking tape on the last epoxy coat and then carefully apply varnish the areas in between the masking tape. I then lightly sprinkled crushed silica from about a meter above the work to get an even light coating. The wet varnish acted as the glue. Two more coats to the entire step (minus the masking tape) once the glue coat was dry and that was another job written off.

Oh nice! thanks for the pics. that looks pretty good. I can live with that. The silica i have is pretty fine grain but has a nice sandpaper like traction. It might wet out pretty nicely then. I didnt think of epoxy, but come to think of it i do have some laminating epoxy leftover.

Yeah its the leading edge of the step that gets me every time. The way my boat is setup, thats where your heel naturally lands when stepping through the companionway if your not paying attention. I sail with guests on occasion, some older, it could be a very serious injury if any of them mis judged that first step.

May i go off topic for a second and ask what finish you used on the cabin sole?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I didnt think of epoxy, but come to think of it i do have some laminating epoxy leftover.

Be careful with epoxy as it can be a godsend but also a disaster. Check how here :

Fastening Down Teak Slats on Wing Seats

On my Hunter 340 I have 2 Wing Seats that have 1 1/2 inch wide x 3/8 inch thick Teak Wood Slats. They are screw down through the White Starboard and up into the slats to hold them in place. A few of the screw holes in the teak slats have widen over the years and do not hold the screws in tight...

forums.sailboatowners.com

I wouldn't get into it unless you're prepared to spend mega hours in prep work. Mind you, with winter almost upon us what else is there to do. Certainly not difficult work, only requires a grade four reform school education but many hours involved. If you're only looking for safety, stick with using varnish as glue to start the process.

May i go off topic for a second and ask what finish you used on the cabin sole?

That is a lesson in what NOT to do. I did that the first winter after I got the boat in '98 right form the factory. I saw that every board on the boat didn't have a sealer coat on the back. Just clean plywood. So that was job "one". Then I started looking at the surface of the floor boards and they didn't look resistant to anything rougher than mosquitoes skating on them. Coated with "I don't know what" but very light. I coated them with eight coats of Varathane and then borrowed space in friend's hot box which he uses for making piano sounding boards. Controlled to about 105 deg. F. for two months. It's all I knew back then.

Given it to do all over today with a bare sole from the factory, I would seal all floor boards with System Three ClearCoat and a coat of fine glass cloth. The glass cloth disappears in the ClearCoat as they have the same refractive index. The usual five coats of epoxy and two of varnish and it would have looked like wet varnish for 20 years. Not as simple as that but maintenance free for decades. An epoxy backing on the underside is mandatory with something like that.

As it is now with the soft varnish, I have to pull out all the boards every few years and buff them with a light cut polish using a buffer.

Maintenance free has become my mantra.

 

[MFD]

Understood on not wanting an eyesore but I would suggest simply putting adhesive industrial safety grit tape for stairwells on the steps.

I did this many years ago, my girlfriend did a great job of cutting them so they looked as good as possible.

All subsequent guests that had been on the boat before and after complimented us on fixing that safety problem.

I think even non-sailor/naive guests are not offended by the look of the safety grit and appreciate its purpose.

EDIT: I do not have links right now, but recall from OSHA or other organizations that have studied stairwells, that the way feet work, it might seem you slipped on the edge of the stair, but if the stair itself was grippy - you never would have made it that far to report that experience.

 

[jssailem]

There is a solution that does not involve changing the varnish.
Aboard ships the Navy refers to the steps down your “Companion Way” as a LADDER. They are not stairs. The seamen like manner to transit a LADDER is to face it and proceed down one sat a time holding onto the rails.

But of course that takes time.
Sand and varnish, non skid paint, or anti skid tape is often used. It is not a 100% solution to not falling down the LADDER.

 

[MFD]

Aboard ships the Navy refers to the steps down your “Companion Way” as a LADDER. They are not stairs. The seamen like manner to transit a LADDER is to face it and proceed down one sat a time holding onto the rails.

Yes, this is also true and good to be mindful about.

Meanwhile (not ex-Navy) but I don't think I have ever seen a ladder ashore or (non-recreational) maritime where the steps did not have some type of seriously 'grippy' surface.
Safety depends on many factors - the ones that mitigate common user errors often being the most important ones.

For myself as a liveaboard, I often go down the companion way the 'wrong way' when tied up at the dock or anchored in calm weather. The common scenario is with laundry or grocery bags. A very bad habit in the scheme of things, but just so convenient.

In bad weather, I am tethered, clipped on, and facing forward whether going in or out. Briefly doubled tethered when moving between the companion way area and a separate tether dedicated to the helm station itself.

Thinking more about this - I am kind of surprised that surveyors don't flag something like this - "slick, extra slippery when wet" - companion way steps as a safety issue. I am not sure if most marine surveyors even do analysis of appropriate hand holds within the boat itself so that one can safely move end-to-end inside during bad sea conditions. I know I had to add some on my boat.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Be careful with epoxy as it can be a godsend but also a disaster. Check how here :

Fastening Down Teak Slats on Wing Seats

On my Hunter 340 I have 2 Wing Seats that have 1 1/2 inch wide x 3/8 inch thick Teak Wood Slats. They are screw down through the White Starboard and up into the slats to hold them in place. A few of the screw holes in the teak slats have widen over the years and do not hold the screws in tight...

forums.sailboatowners.com

I wouldn't get into it unless you're prepared to spend mega hours in prep work. Mind you, with winter almost upon us what else is there to do. Certainly not difficult work, only requires a grade four reform school education but many hours involved. If you're only looking for safety, stick with using varnish as glue to start the process.



That is a lesson in what NOT to do. I did that the first winter after I got the boat in '98 right form the factory. I saw that every board on the boat didn't have a sealer coat on the back. Just clean plywood. So that was job "one". Then I started looking at the surface of the floor boards and they didn't look resistant to anything rougher than mosquitoes skating on them. Coated with "I don't know what" but very light. I coated them with eight coats of Varathane and then borrowed space in friend's hot box which he uses for making piano sounding boards. Controlled to about 105 deg. F. for two months. It's all I knew back then.

Given it to do all over today with a bare sole from the factory, I would seal all floor boards with System Three ClearCoat and a coat of fine glass cloth. The glass cloth disappears in the ClearCoat as they have the same refractive index. The usual five coats of epoxy and two of varnish and it would have looked like wet varnish for 20 years. Not as simple as that but maintenance free for decades. An epoxy backing on the underside is mandatory with something like that.

As it is now with the soft varnish, I have to pull out all the boards every few years and buff them with a light cut polish using a buffer.

Maintenance free has become my mantra.

Noted. Thanks for elaborating on the floor. i have been on the elusive hunt with no success on how to keep my teak floor the light orangy tan color it was originally. I noticed your floor has the color i have been trying to replicate but have not been successful at.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Yes, this is also true and good to be mindful about.

Meanwhile (not ex-Navy) but I don't think I have ever seen a ladder ashore or (non-recreational) maritime where the steps did not have some type of seriously 'grippy' surface.
Safety depends on many factors - the ones that mitigate common user errors often being the most important ones.

For myself as a liveaboard, I often go down the companion way the 'wrong way' when tied up at the dock or anchored in calm weather. The common scenario is with laundry or grocery bags. A very bad habit in the scheme of things, but just so convenient.

In bad weather, I am tethered, clipped on, and facing forward whether going in or out. Briefly doubled tethered when moving between the companion way area and a separate tether dedicated to the helm station itself.

Thinking more about this - I am kind of surprised that surveyors don't flag something like this - "slick, extra slippery when wet" - companion way steps as a safety issue. I am not sure if most marine surveyors even do analysis of appropriate hand holds within the boat itself so that one can safely move end-to-end inside during bad sea conditions. I know I had to add some on my boat.

Exactly. interestingly when i'm out sailing, i go down it like jsailem cautions 'as a ladder' instinctively. All of my falls have been abourd when tied up in a slip. I do exactly the same thing you are describing. most of the time i'm carrying something or running in and out of the boat many times in a row while doing repair work. my teak sole is becoming an archeological site of indentations from 21st century hand tools.

 

[MFD]

...
I don't think I have ever seen a ladder ashore or (non-recreational) maritime where the steps did not have some type of seriously 'grippy' surface.
...

I take this back - I do recall metal fixed vertical ladders in various places where the rungs were just tubing. Typically mounted directly onto the side of a building, tower, etc. The worst being going up wharves a couple times where of course the bottom rungs and even the reachable sections of the vertical rails were all slimy.

 

[MFD]

Exactly. interestingly when i'm out sailing, i go down it like jsailem cautions 'as a ladder' instinctively. All of my falls have been abourd when tied up in a slip. I do exactly the same thing you are describing. most of the time i'm carrying something or running in and out of the boat many times in a row while doing repair work. my teak sole is becoming an archeological site of indentations from 21st century hand tools.

I actually took a pretty good spill some time ago doing this. I had a pair of slippers that had lost all their rubbery bottom which I had been quietly telling myself that I was going to kill myself in them one day. Well, I took a pretty good tumble. Combo of user error and poor equipment I guess? I finally bought another pair of indoor/outdoor slippers and I spray plastidip on the bottom of them once a year or so which has seemed to work well.

 

[capta]

Once again the "yachting" industry is getting you to waste your boat bucks. This "old man", as one poster unpleasantly put it, and others with my experience I'm sure, know of many commercially produced products that do a better job and are significantly less expensive than marine products.
For instance, crushed walnut shells make the perfect non-skid material for painted, gel coated and varnished surfaces! Pick up a bag of the grade (roughness) you wish, from Home Depot or wherever, strain it through a kitchen strainer and sprinkle on the drying surface. Then recoat with the final coat or two (depending on the roughness you wish) and Bob's your uncle!
*Note; the bonus, it's a heck of a lot easier to sand, than sand, should a repair be necessary!!!!!

 

[thinwater]

Safety is WAY more important than pretty looks. I do not respect a boat with slippery walking surfaces.

A very simple way is a thick coat of varnish, and then grind coarse salt into it while wet. Well covered. Once dry, was the salt out. A good look, pretty durable, and very easy to re-do.

The best way is 3M Safety Walk high-grit tape.

Don't forget slippery railings. Stainless, without gloves, is like ice when wet. Consider wrapping them with leather or twine. Much safer.

Finally, there is learning to walk on boat underway. You hold on in the companionway (you should have already been holding onto something, not grabbing for it). You plan holds when moving on-deck. Think rock climbing. More relaxed, but still mindful. Barefoot or shoes (barefoot can be treacherous with just a little water or sweat; there are many devotees, but that does not make it safe)?

 

[BAD ORCA]

A very simple way is a thick coat of varnish, and then grind coarse salt into it while wet. Well covered. Once dry, was the salt out. A good look, pretty durable, and very easy to re-do.

That looks great. exactly what im imagining i want it to look like. I have silica sand in three different grades. One that is slightly finer grain than salt. so should look similar. Thats a great tip though if i ever run out of silica. I have time this week at work, so think i will take Joes advice and do some tests.

 

[thinwater]

That looks great. exactly what im imagining i want it to look like. I have silica sand in three different grades. One that is slightly finer grain than salt. so should look similar. Thats a great tip though if i ever run out of silica. I have time this week at work, so think i will take Joes advice and do some tests.

Glad to help.

At least try the salted-varnish. It is grippier and longer lasting than you would think, and when you re-do it, you aren't sanding silica, just varnish. And it is only one coat.

 

[Richard19068]

Once again the "yachting" industry is getting you to waste your boat bucks. This "old man", as one poster unpleasantly put it, and others with my experience I'm sure, know of many commercially produced products that do a better job and are significantly less expensive than marine products.
For instance, crushed walnut shells make the perfect non-skid material for painted, gel coated and varnished surfaces! Pick up a bag of the grade (roughness) you wish, from Home Depot or wherever, strain it through a kitchen strainer and sprinkle on the drying surface. Then recoat with the final coat or two (depending on the roughness you wish) and Bob's your uncle!
*Note; the bonus, it's a heck of a lot easier to sand, than sand, should a repair be necessary!!!!!

I love my walnut shell companionway treads.
But they are ready to be redone after 20+ years.

 

[jssailem]

There is always “SoftSand”. It provides grip but is a little less sharp abrasive. Generally used with paint. Not sure if it will work with varnish.
Sample and try before committing.

 

[Deleted Account 10166]

I love my walnut shell companionway treads.
But they are ready to be redone after 20+ years.

Any photos of your walnut companionway treads? Did you design them yourself? I live on a farm filled with big huge old black walnut trees. The old man who used to own the farm, rough cut board after board of black walnut. Most of it is still in the barn. I've been slowly pulling 20 and 30 foot boards down to the main entrance. I figure if I ever sell them, they will pay for my retirement. Does walnut hold up well inside a boat? I just purchased some mahogany from Menards. I read it will last 40 + years on the exterior if coated .....and if not coated, up to twenty ish. I built my own set of 7 foot long hand rails. I learned how to use a router. But I have no idea how to use the router on the ends where I go against the grain. So, I just used my random orbit sander on the ends. Any tips or info would be greatly appreciated

Isskrä

 

[jssailem]

Isskrä, the walnut of which he speaks is crushed walnut shells. It is sometimes used as an abrasive to spray at pressure against a hull to remove the paint.
In this case a sprinkling is spread over wet varnish. When dry several more coats of varnish are add to seal the material and the base wood.