Salvage rights?

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Steve Weinstein

BOAT/US v SeaTow

I've got no information about SeaTow but a good friend of mine is the local BOAT/US tow franchise in Oyster Bay & Huntington, NY and Greenwich, Ct. I know for a fact that he doesn't get a dime of our premium to B/US. He makes his money by billing B/US (assuming you're a member)for each job. I've heard some horror stories about SeaTow operators but have no personal experience. I think the difference is that B/US "screens" all tow operations which go out under the B/US name in order to make sure they represent BOAT/US in a favorable light. SeaTow, on the other hand has no affiliation with any comperable company to worry about their image. On the other hand, I think West Marine contracted with SeaTow a few years ago when they first got into the insurance side of the business and maybe they'll ride heard on the SeaTow operators a little harder if they get negative feedback about them.
 
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Tom

Don, I now have the Boat US unlimited also

From what I see your charges weren't outrageous and you only had to pay $35 out of pocket. It was a LOT better than what happened to Stewart who was asked to pay $1000 + because they wanted to call it a salvage. Imagine how frustrated you would have felt if they came along and did what happened to Stewart! BTW, If I am correct, the Boat US operator of of Oyster Bay is a younger guy that always has his dog on board. From what I have seen, he is a great guy.
 
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John Visser

To Steve Weinstein

Steve, When you say "I think" and "I've heard," it would be helpful to others if you would emphasize that you are dealing in speculation and anecdote, not on fact. All that you have to do to know for fact what the policy terms and conditions are is read them on the respecitve operator's websites. If you read the conditons of the services from the SeaTow and BoatUS, the SeaTow offering is much more attractive. I think one's experience will vary dramatically with individual operator. If I were the original poster, I would not give SeaTow a nickle for that incident, since they failed to attempt a soft ungrounding procedure. If I had paid and the refused to refund my money, I would sue them. I've never seen a BoatUS tow boat, or noticed one around. I've seen lots of SeaTow boats around. I hear "Tow Boat US, New Bedford" on the radio a lot, responding ot radio check and time check requests - good free advertising for them. There's a fine line between towboat operators and pirates, from what I've heard! There's an article in the latest SAIL Magazine on using a tender as a tow boat. I may practice this. Also, I know I can sail into my port and pick up the moorin gunder sail, if need be, assuming the wind is blowing. All in all, I may buy the $99. SeaTow service. Would be interesting to "test" them by faking an engine failure, eh? jv
 
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RobHoman

Seems I remember......

That Sea-Tow's website defined their coverage of a soft ungrounding as "one boat and 15 minutes" and if it couldn't be accomplished in 15 minutes, well I guess they went for your wallet. BoatUS's policy is one boat and no mention of time before it goes into "salvage". The bottom line is that a boat owner needs to be aware of what their coverages are, what their requirements are when they are in need of assistance. If you are not in imminent danger, and can refloat on a rising tide....why holler for help on the radio? Bashing one company as opposed to the other benefits no-one, as both serve a useful purpose. I believe that West Marine is associated with "Vessel Assist" and they sell the towing cards in their stores at the counters...not Sea-Tow. Small detail, but nevertheless....
 
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Stewart Dalsimer

Rob, no call to Sea Tow was made by me

Could have been the nearby launch, police, coast guard or some other 'helpful' person who called Sea Tow. However, if I had a boat full of kids, it didn't make perfect sense to get them home at 3AM, especially if it was an easy pull IN MY OPINION (40 years of experience). And I did PAY for the services. So there would have been nothing wrong or inappropriate if I HAD called them. Very importantly though, the intention of my initial posting was not to compare towing companies, but to enlighten boaters in general, and to hopefully put in check these kinds of abuses. I do intend to see this through, and at least get my money back from Sea Tow. Perhaps a class action suit and get all boaters who have experienced this type of abuse? I have yet to hear back from Sea Tow, who have thus far ignored my email.
 
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Peter Brennan

A political move set up

the tow boat operators. It was the Reagan privatisation at any cost policy that put the tow boat operators in business and put the CG out of it. And they sure do take advantage. Someone said it's a tough way to make a living? Then why are there so many of them? Saw a boat stuck on the bar at Horseshoe Cove not long ago. He was there quite awhile. I don't know if they called SeaTow (or BOat US) but one of them kept hanging around all day. The owner was not persuaded and eventually floated off. Saw another one go on the beach in high wind at the Sand Holer. He called Boat US and they had him off and anchored in a jiffy. We have called them twice for dead batteries (different boats, many years apart). $300+ is a pretty good price for a jump start. I would not waste any time feeling sorry for these guys and adding up their costs and investment. After all, they forced the CG out of the business and created a wholly unnecessary industry.
 
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Peter Brennan

Ed, the Coast Guard

should have been called in your East River situation. There you were headed for the Hell Gate on a four knot current and no engine? I would think that was an emergency situation. Similar thing happened to us. Engine died under the Brooklyn Bridge on an incoming tide with threatening thunder storms. We called the CG at Governor's Island they came real fast, took us on the hip and deposited us at the 23rd Street Marina. The Marina people weren't real happy, but they could not charge us since the CG had rescued us. Got out of there the next day. By the way, I am told that 23rd Street Marina charges boats $4 a foot just to drop off and pick up passengers. Anyone know anything about this?
 
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Don

Salvage v. Towing - Big Difference!!

IMHO, EVERY boat owner should review and understand the difference between these two terms. SeaTow, TBUS, etc are all for "towing" services. The law defines "savlage" as something significantly different. And, the law generally gives the other person the right to make the decision. You, as the owner, don't have much of a right to dispute it, then or later. Your insurance company will most likely wind up settling a salvage claim for a large, but not unreasonable amount. Call your insurance company, they will be glad to expain the difference, in part, because they may have to pay it. Sailnet (sorry Phil) has some great articles on the subject. See the link below for starters. Yep, it's real serious business. If you don't know about it, it's only because you haven't been in trouble yet. In this case, it sounds like the SeaTow guy was taking advantage of a situation. Unfortunately, the law pretty much lets him do it.
 
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jeribelle

Salvage rights? Where's your response, Sea Tow?

I know I'm lagging on reading my posts, but I feel your pain, Stewart. Still waiting to read Sea Tow's reasons for the fiasco. One point I would like to make: as an accountant, I truly understand the dollars involved in running a towing operation. However, I also have 10 years' working experience in the insurance industry. The cost of the towing business and the cost of the gas is not the insured's problem; it is part of the cost of doing business. If not honoring contracts for soft ungrounding assist is their bag, and maximizing their profits, then maybe the contracted tow boat owners should be sitting at the dock until they have a verified request from the insured himself, before they venture out like vultures, trying to "work the system". If the outfits selling the insurance had to refund premiums each and every time the contracted service was declined by the Sea Tow contractor, in this case, a proven soft ungrounding, based on the fact that a change of tide enabled the boat to drift off without assist, we wouldn't have the abuse and scamming in the marine assistance industry. I apologize to the truly honest operators trying to make a living doing marine assistance, who honor their contracts with Boat US, and Sea Tow. We appreciate the valued service you provide your customers. Unfortunately, the bad apples are tarnishing your image! So, with that said, your best chance of resolving the issue rests with Sea Tow, and I would recommend going right to the top. Sea Tow International 1560 Youngs Avenue Southold, NY 11971 1 631 765-3660 - tel. 1 631 765-5802 - fax Member service Hotline: 1 800 4SEATOW I have included the address for Sea Tow International, along with phone numbers, to begin addressing their franchise issue in your area. Sea Tow corporate has made it difficult to obtain the name(s)of the president, CEO, CFO, etc on the web, as an internet search doesn't get me a corporate link, financial overview, nothing. If you want to pursue the issue, call the company and request the names and mailing addresses of some of the corporate executives. That usually gets the ball rolling. I'm going to bet that inclusion of some links to the postings in this archive in your letter to them will get you a response. Good luck! jeribelle
 
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John Visser

Change the law

I think its about time we got Congress to change the laws regarding salvage and the recreational boater. This should include stopping the levying of fines and fees for environmental cleanup related to sinkings, which are infinitessimally damaging compared to what companies, municipalities, and the military do daily. I'm tired of being brow-beaten by my own government and legal system! jv
 
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Tom

John, I agree with you ..but Good Luck!

I don't think there will be a huge ground swelling of support and I'm sure there will be Big Buck operations lobbying congress. (God I hate politics)...but thats the reality....there really isn't enough support. Not to mention that you have to change Centuries of laws based on Admirality Laws older than this country
 
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