Sailing and Philosophy

Oct 22, 2014
21,146
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Well Congrats Will on this meteoric rise in Like ability.
:worship:
We welcome you. You are a shining star with an enviable ratio of Like to message.

When faced with such joy I like to remember Caesar,



And this from William Shakespeare...

“There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures.”​

In ancient times the Greeks would honor the accomplishment with a wreath of laurel. All we got is :beer:. Hope you are not unhappy.​
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,752
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Einstein invented a time machine and was able to travel back in time to meet one of his idols, Newton. Newton, fascinated by the time machine, joined Einstein to meet Pascal. When the three of them were together they were all so astounded to be in eachother's presence that they couldn't think of anything to talk about. Pascal, being on his home turf, suggested, "Not to pressure you, but how about a game of hide and seek?" After all, he knew all the good hiding places.
Einstein said, "I think it should be relatively easy to win, so I'm in."
Newton, after some consideration, replied, "My hand is being forced. Ok, Einstein is it."
Accepting this proposition, Einstein covers his eyes and begins to count, "one, two, three,..."
Pascal immediately races off to find his favorite hiding spot. Newton calmly stays put, but he reaches into his coat and pulls out a small metric tape measure and a piece of chalk.
"... five, six, seven,..."
Newton then measured out and drew a square on the ground, one meter by one meter and stepped in the middle of it.
"... eight, nine, ten. Ready or not here I come!" Shouted Einstein and opened his eyes.
"I found Newton, I found Newton!" Einstein shouted with triumph.
"Actually, " Newton responded smugly, "you did not. You found one Newton per square meter, so you found Pascal."

- Will (Dragonfly)
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Actually SBO Contributors are like Mathematical Numbers in many ways.
@Will Gilmore is Transcendental
@Kermit is sometimes Irrational leading to Humor.
@jssailem is a Series of continuing knowledge.
Many are Integers which are rounded to simple solutions.

A few deal with the Imaginary, but still seem to be good Sailors.

Some are yet to be Defined like [A/0]

Happy Sailing in Abstract Waters...
Jim...
Wow. My mind has never been described as Mathematical. I am TRULY humbled.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,752
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Philosophy is basically divided into three main branches of interest. Modern philosophy covers more categories, but they are more like subcategories or offshoots of the three; Ethics (behavior), Metaphysics (origins and structure, the nature of, reality) and Epistemology (knowledge- how and if things can be known).
Sailing is an excellent metaphor for this. There is the metaphysics of sailing: the nature of sailboats, water, weather, and sailors. Then there is Ethics, not just rules of the road and etiquette, but the course we take to get from A to B, how and why to set a certain tack or use a particular set of sails, picking the right anchor and using the right scope. The science metaphor is, Ethics is how the Universe behaves (a body hits another body and both change their motion) and morality is the principles, the laws that govern those behaviors (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, F=ma). Epistemology is the knowledge and experience a sailor has. It also includes questions about what you can or can't know like, how do I know if there is an underwater obstruction, what will the weather be like on my trip across the pond, can I know of there is dryrot under my glass deck. Knowledge or the knowable can also be viewed as the tracks and wear (evidence) left behind. A boat's wake, the bubbling across the hull, the dirt and wear left by sloppy storage, the red sky in the morning, all tell a story of actions or things past or things to come.
Epistemology is all about the mind (edit: added text) and its interaction with the rest of the Universe.

- Will (Dragonfly)
 
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Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Philosophy is basically divided into three main branches of interest. Modern philosophy covers more categories, but they are more like subcategories or offshoots of the three; Ethics (behavior), Metaphysics (origins and structure, the nature of, reality) and Epistemology (knowledge- how and if things can be known).
Sailing is an excellent metaphor for this. There is the metaphysics of sailing: the nature of sailboats, water, weather, and sailors. Then there is Ethics, not just rules of the road and etiquette, but the course we take to get from A to B, how and why to set a certain tack or use a particular set of sails, picking the right anchor and using the right scope. The science metaphor is, Ethics is how the Universe behaves (a body hits another body and both change their motion) and morality is the principles, the laws that govern those behaviors (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, F=ma). Epistemology is the knowledge and experience a sailor has. It also includes questions about what you can or can't know like, how do I know if there is an underwater obstruction, what will the weather be like on my trip across the pond, can I know of there is dryrot under my glass deck. Knowledge or the knowable can also be viewed as the tracks and wear (evidence) left behind. A boat's wake, the bubbling across the hull, the dirt and wear left by sloppy storage, the red sky in the morning, all tell a story of actions or things past or things to come.
Epistemology is all about the mind (edit: added text) and its interaction with the rest of the Universe.

- Will (Dragonfly)
Silly me. All this time I was thinking all I needed to know is I need wind. And not to try to sail straight into it.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,752
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Silly me. All this time I was thinking all I needed to know is I need wind. And not to try to sail straight into it.
Kermit,
There are your three branches of philosophy right there.
1. Know (epistemology) you need wind and don't try to sail straight into it.
2. Wind (metaphysics) is what makes up your universe.
3. Don't sail straight into the wind (Ethics).
Your moral principles, determined by your knowledge of metaphysical world determine you're behavior. Use the wind, don't try to fight it. :)
The complete system.

- Will (Dragonfly)
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Kermit,
There are your three branches of philosophy right there.
1. Know (epistemology) you need wind and don't try to sail straight into it.
2. Wind (metaphysics) is what makes up your universe.
3. Don't sail straight into the wind (Ethics).
Your moral principles, determined by your knowledge of metaphysical world determine you're behavior. Use the wind, don't try to fight it. :)
The complete system.

- Will (Dragonfly)
I heard the word psychiatry far more times a day than philosophy.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,447
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I heard the word psychiatry far more times a day than philosophy.
Only the Irrational number type guys would.:laugh:
______
Acutually I would have agreed with @Kermit a few years back, until I was shown that it is actually Philosophy that drives our every day life and our behavior with others.

Example: It was pure Philosophy, derived from a commonly held Beliefs, that drove the Principles of the USA Founding fathers.

Here the order of what drives us...
1) Beliefs
2) Philosophies
3) Principles

Only number 3 will stand the "test of time".

We don't say our behavior reflects our personal Philosophy, in daily conversions.
We may say...
I like that guy, or..
Wasn't she pleasant...
I like his humor. or..
Just :plus:,:clap:,:wow3:,:thumbup:,:),:)

Thus we present our personal Philosophy every day, without using the word Philosophy.
Jim...
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,752
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Only the Irrational number type guys would.:laugh:
Kermit may also qualify as an Imaginary Number, n + Kermit^2 = n - Kermit. After all, Kermit is not only irrational, but he is both imaginary and complex, oh so complex. ;)

My son has a degree in Philosophy. During his program, he came home with all this stuff about Physicalism and Reductive Materialism. Reductive meaning it boils down to a fundamental or radical base. I tend towards Reductive Idealism. Idealism, in this case, is about the idea of Reality, not some perfect, idyllic or ideal Reality. I am a monist (the Universe is one thing). In the case of Physicalism, the base is "stuff" physical material. Its exact nature may be in dispute, but the idea is there is the "concrete" Reality and nothing more. I have two degrees in Computer Science and as my son is describing his class material, I can clearly see the influence of the Computer Age on the thinking here. They talked about things like "Brain State", the idea that if you were to stop everything or even remove everything but preserve the information about what state the elements of the brain was in (think Star Trek transporter technology), then when you reassembled the component material parts and hit the "go" button again (started Time back up) there would be no gap, no loss to the system and no noticeable change. This is exactly what computers do when they shut down normally. They record their processor memory and cache states, then, upon starting back up, replicate that state so the rebooted computer is right where is left off. Except that computers don't generally restore the clock. they know or can know time has passed.
This has lead to the modern Physicist and Philosopher to consider the fundamental base of the Cosmos to be Information. However, information is like energy. Most of us talk about energy as though it is a thing all its own. We ignore the fact that without mass, there can be no energy. Energy is only an expression of the relationship of mass (E=mc^2). It is the same with information. Without a physical vessel to store and act upon the information, there is no information. That is why this philosophical paradigm is referred to as Physicalism. It deals with phenomena in a physical Reality.
For sailors, this fits perfectly with how they view the World. Sailing manipulates the physics of a material World in almost a magical way. We can't see the wind, but we know its effects and feel its force. The wind is there to some senses but not to all senses. We have information about the wind but not much else. Mostly, we infer its presence.
You are sitting with friends in the cockpit of your boat and someone says, "Wow, look at the wind blow!" What they really mean is, look at the masts swaying or look at the flag over the marina building flapping out straight. Maybe they are talking about the clouds flying by over head or a Hobie with two sailors hiked out high on a raised pontoon flying past. And wind itself is just an expression of a state of being for air. Wind doesn't exist on its own. It needs air to be. Like information itself, wind is also dependent on the existence of matter that is not wind nor air. It is really just an expression of a relationship. Even air that is moving has no wind until there is something else to conflict with that moving air. The movement of air needs to be relative to something else for there to be wind. Water makes a great second data point for Wind to exist. Now we have the potential for something here. Now we can do work (sail a boat). No matter how much air and movement of air you have, without water your boat is just falling.

When you are out there under your sail and the wind is beautifully constant and the course is set and there is little need to attend to the immediate processes of sheeting, navigation, rules of the road, changing sails or tack or even getting another beer, what is it that is worth the effort of thinking about? Are you running reaction drills for sailing, the last win of your favorite ball club, all the chores that are waiting for you when you get home, whether there is a giant squid lurking beneath the waves to attack, if you so much as peek over the side? For me, it is this stuff. I can't help it, "I was drawn this way." i blame my father.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
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Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Kermit may also qualify as an Imaginary Number, n + Kermit^2 = n - Kermit. After all, Kermit is not only irrational, but he is both imaginary and complex, oh so complex. ;)

My son has a degree in Philosophy. During his program, he came home with all this stuff about Physicalism and Reductive Materialism. Reductive meaning it boils down to a fundamental or radical base. I tend towards Reductive Idealism. Idealism, in this case, is about the idea of Reality, not some perfect, idyllic or ideal Reality. I am a monist (the Universe is one thing). In the case of Physicalism, the base is "stuff" physical material. Its exact nature may be in dispute, but the idea is there is the "concrete" Reality and nothing more. I have two degrees in Computer Science and as my son is describing his class material, I can clearly see the influence of the Computer Age on the thinking here. They talked about things like "Brain State", the idea that if you were to stop everything or even remove everything but preserve the information about what state the elements of the brain was in (think Star Trek transporter technology), then when you reassembled the component material parts and hit the "go" button again (started Time back up) there would be no gap, no loss to the system and no noticeable change. This is exactly what computers do when they shut down normally. They record their processor memory and cache states, then, upon starting back up, replicate that state so the rebooted computer is right where is left off. Except that computers don't generally restore the clock. they know or can know time has passed.
This has lead to the modern Physicist and Philosopher to consider the fundamental base of the Cosmos to be Information. However, information is like energy. Most of us talk about energy as though it is a thing all its own. We ignore the fact that without mass, there can be no energy. Energy is only an expression of the relationship of mass (E=mc^2). It is the same with information. Without a physical vessel to store and act upon the information, there is no information. That is why this philosophical paradigm is referred to as Physicalism. It deals with phenomena in a physical Reality.
For sailors, this fits perfectly with how they view the World. Sailing manipulates the physics of a material World in almost a magical way. We can't see the wind, but we know its effects and feel its force. The wind is there to some senses but not to all senses. We have information about the wind but not much else. Mostly, we infer its presence.
You are sitting with friends in the cockpit of your boat and someone says, "Wow, look at the wind blow!" What they really mean is, look at the masts swaying or look at the flag over the marina building flapping out straight. Maybe they are talking about the clouds flying by over head or a Hobie with two sailors hiked out high on a raised pontoon flying past. And wind itself is just an expression of a state of being for air. Wind doesn't exist on its own. It needs air to be. Like information itself, wind is also dependent on the existence of matter that is not wind nor air. It is really just an expression of a relationship. Even air that is moving has no wind until there is something else to conflict with that moving air. The movement of air needs to be relative to something else for there to be wind. Water makes a great second data point for Wind to exist. Now we have the potential for something here. Now we can do work (sail a boat). No matter how much air and movement of air you have, without water your boat is just falling.

When you are out there under your sail and the wind is beautifully constant and the course is set and there is little need to attend to the immediate processes of sheeting, navigation, rules of the road, changing sails or tack or even getting another beer, what is it that is worth the effort of thinking about? Are you running reaction drills for sailing, the last win of your favorite ball club, all the chores that are waiting for you when you get home, whether there is a giant squid lurking beneath the waves to attack, if you so much as peek over the side? For me, it is this stuff. I can't help it, "I was drawn this way." i blame my father.

-Will (Dragonfly)
And y’all call *me* irrational. Jeepers. It’s sailing.:stir:
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,752
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
I can't help it, "I was drawn this way." i blame my father.
The name of my father's last boat was 'Zafu'.

he's eighty one now and has given up sailing. He talks about getting another boat and naming it 'Sarcophagus'.

His wishes after death is to be cremated and have his ashes put in a trash can, then some pallbearers carry his ashes in the trash can ceremoniously to the dump. His lawyer wouldn't let him put that in his will, though. Something about evidence of incompetence leading to contestability.

Anyhow, my father has studied philosophy all his life. He went to UF for it but, as a young married man and a new father, ended up with a degree in communications. I guess that is more "marketable" :)laugh:) . He has sailed around the World, all along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico, and cross the Atlantic numerous times, at least three as the captain of his own boat and several as crew/guest of friends. Most of the time he was single handing. At a social gathering, once, there was a poet. She approached my father saying something like this, "You have spent a lot of time sailing alone. You must have had some profound experiences watching all those sunrises while out there by yourself?" My father can be a bit trite at times and he responded, "Eh, you've seen one sunrise, you've seen them all." The poet's face dropped and she went to talk to others. My father recently expressed his enduring regret for that moment. It is sad how many times we miss the opportunity to really be who we wish to be in times like that. :banghead:My high school dating career was just exactly like that.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
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Oct 22, 2014
21,146
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Will, I recall a quote from Albert Bandura I read once... “Some of the most important determinants of life paths arise out of the most trivial of circumstances”.

I find that as I age, in moments of reflection, I think about decisions I made. What would have happened if I had chosen the other path. Then I realize. I would not be me.

Be you and worry not.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,447
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I think about decisions I made. What would have happened if I had chosen the other path.
I offer a Philosophical answer to that question or perhaps a stimulant for your future reflections.

Nothing signicantly different.
_________
Philosophically
you are you, at the moment of a decision. Your life objectives, at that moment, appeared with enough clarity to decide.
______
Let me give a Sailing example. The day is normal, good winds, good boat, and good crew. All is good!:)
@jssailem [The Captain] is sailing from point A with an course objective of arriving at destination of X.
The Captain notes a Cargo Barge is appears interfering with his charted course.

It is a Life Decision time!

I will let @jssailem respond on what his Life decisions would be at that moment, if he wishes.
I will send @Will Gilmore a PM with what I think JS's decision will be.

This is not a trick or puzzle.
Dr. Jim...
 
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Oct 22, 2014
21,146
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
@JamesG161 You posit a question that could have many outcomes as time and distance are involved. Thus "Not a life decision moment". It is more a calculation of events.
. She approached my father saying something like this, "You have spent a lot of time sailing alone. You must have had some profound experiences watching all those sunrises while out there by yourself?" My father can be a bit trite at times and he responded, "Eh, you've seen one sunrise, you've seen them all."
@Will Gilmore suggests his fathers "trite" response raised a life decision reflection.
My father recently expressed his enduring regret for that moment.
Regret is a way of thinking about life paths. We have not been given enough information. It is possible that @Will Gilmore would not be here had his father given the poet that for which she hoped.

The question is what would I do. What ever it is I would impact my time line and the events of my life in ways I can not fathom.
 
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